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Ville de Québec Part X: Pousse mais pousse égal Gary! (Mod warning post #774)

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06-30-2013, 08:01 PM
  #76
GF
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Well, I'm starting to believe Seattle is gonna get the Coyotes should they have to be relocated.

What I don't understand, is up to 2 weeks ago, Seattle wasn't even in the running. Sure there were talks of the NBA coming and the arena getting built, but the plan was the NBA. Hockey was a nice addition to say the least. Then the NBA deal collapsed and that was it.

Now, it seems Seattle is the preferred spot to relocate. I can't understand how a city that was not really interested in NHL hockey suddenly becomes THE place to go. Quebec seems totally removed from the possible places to relocate.

I have nothing against Seattle fans, they are rightfully stoked at the idea of getting a NHL team. I'm definately angry at the NHL though.

Good luck to Seattle, you're gonna need a boatload of it to be ready for next season.

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06-30-2013, 10:45 PM
  #77
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QC makes the most sense here. The temporary stadium will work, the new stadium is opening 2015. Will the NHL increase revenue by moving here? Yes. Not necessarily a true increase, but an increase by stopping the decreases from picking up the tab in AZ. As mentioned earlier, the TV numbers in Canada would most likely not rise if they're already watching regardless. Perhaps some clever scheduling could compensate for this and the two Quebec teams could play on opposite days. This way the league wouldn't compete against itself.
In the States, you have two monstrous TV audiences in Phoenix and Atlanta. What did that matter in the end? Seattle is a biggy too. Problem is, these are "potential" fans. That is the risk in Seattle or the other rumored US markets.

Seattle also has a stadium issue. The temporary one is less than optimal to show off the new team in town. Any new stadium is just a dream at this stage. Does the league want more stadium drama?

This league has far more drama than it can afford. Lockout after lockout, fraudulent owners, a joke for national TV coverage in the US, the whole perception that it is third rate in the States. The NHL needs some no-frills, no nonsense stability. That sure bet is QC. Save the Seattle or Vegas experiment for another time when someone can make a serious commitment to increasing market.

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07-01-2013, 08:19 AM
  #78
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I think it's no more needed to point out how of a great market Quebec City is.

It is time people of Quebec City show the NHL how pissed they are at their circus.

And with NHL going to Seattle, all arguments that made the Saskatoons of the world NHL ineligible, are suddenly burned with fire and thrown into a volcano by NHL themselves.

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07-01-2013, 09:01 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
I think it's no more needed to point out how of a great market Quebec City is.

It is time people of Quebec City show the NHL how pissed they are at their circus.

And with NHL going to Seattle, all arguments that made the Saskatoons of the world NHL ineligible, are suddenly burned with fire and thrown into a volcano by NHL themselves.
No one is ever going to dispute that QC is a great hockey market.You can say that about any city in Canada.What the NHL is looking at and any other business looks at when they expand is a market for there product and how much growth is there for the product, profit and resale value of that product . QC and Seattle fulfills all of that criteria. Arena or no arena, fan support vs potential fans it will be up to the NHL to choose the market where they feel it will make the most money!It is all about money.And I don't want to argue you will make more money because the X team is in Canada and XX team is in the Pacific NW....The NHL has done studies and the and future owners of teams did studies to see exactly how much money they can make on every dollar they spend.If the NHL decides it is time to leave Glendale believe it or not they will have made 50 million dollars in 4 years,Not a bad investment for a team that Phoenix did not support. At they end of the day each city will one day be granted a team in the NHL and the rivalry between Montreal and Quebec City will always be fierce,there appears to be a new rivalry that may even compare to Chicago's and Vancouver's.It is the Seattle Vs Quebec City rivalry and I can't wait for the very first game to played between these 2 rivals!

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07-01-2013, 09:12 AM
  #80
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I know it sucks right now, but the NHL (and really the owners of the 30 franchises) have always wanted the huge expansion fee from the Canadian markets. The want it someday from Toronto2 and they want it from Quebec City. That has never changed and they will get that within the next few years. That is how QC is getting back into the league. Can't happen soon enough for me.

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07-01-2013, 09:39 AM
  #81
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Why do you think Quebecor let the Bell-Astral merger suddenly happen? So that Bell is on their side for the NHL!

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07-01-2013, 09:45 AM
  #82
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If the Coyotes finally end up in Seattle, the only way we could swallow this pill is Gary announcing expansion in Quebec City and (insert location here) at the same time. Even if this is for the 2015-2016 season...

If not...

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07-01-2013, 09:59 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Material Defender View Post
If the Coyotes finally end up in Seattle, the only way we could swallow this pill is Gary announcing expansion in Quebec City and (insert location here) at the same time. Even if this is for the 2015-2016 season...

If not...
I've given up.
If they relocate to Seattle, they can announce whatever they want in terms of expansion. I'm out. I've put with 5years of finishing last in the late 80s early 90s, I'm not gonna rejoice over getting yet another sucky team for 5 years.

I hope Seattle turns up like the failure Atlanta and Phoenix has been. Rushing a franchise in a market not ready to take it has proven it is a sure way to fail. Jamais deux sans trois. Good luck Gary.

Elvis has left the building.

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Old
07-01-2013, 10:02 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slashers98 View Post
Why do you think Quebecor let the Bell-Astral merger suddenly happen? So that Bell is on their side for the NHL!
Do you have a source on that or is it your own speculation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GF View Post
I've given up.
If they relocate to Seattle, they can announce whatever they want in terms of expansion. I'm out. I've put with 5years of finishing last in the late 80s early 90s, I'm not gonna rejoice over getting yet another sucky team for 5 years.

I hope Seattle turns up like the failure Atlanta and Phoenix has been. Rushing a franchise in a market not ready to take it has proven it is a sure way to fail. Jamais deux sans trois. Good luck Gary.

Elvis has left the building.
That, especially the part about Seattle failing miserably (and I'd add that I wish them a stable of Alexandre Daigle-type busts).

We have done everything to show the NHL we deserved a team and we would be thanked by seeing the Coyotes move to a market that ISN'T READY (even if they CAN play in Key Arena and even if they have owners ready to take MASSIVE losses for the first 3-4 seaons) and by MAYBEEEEEEEE getting an expansion team in 3-4-5-43284923 years? Yeah, we should absolutely put up with it and say nothing... At worse, screw live NHL hockey, I'll continue to go to the Montreal IMpact, Rouge et Or, Capitales and watch the Pens (and a ******** of other sporting events) on TV. I don't need the Nords to be happy, I'd love to get them back and I'd love for the kids in my entourage to experience what I did as a kid, but not at all costs. The question we have to really ask ourselves is: Do we really want to be part of a League that has no real respect for us? If it is on our terms, yeah, if not, screw them, Quebec City will continue to be a thriving sports city. Minor league, but still thriving.


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07-01-2013, 10:08 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Slashers98 View Post
Why do you think Quebecor let the Bell-Astral merger suddenly happen? So that Bell is on their side for the NHL!
Not sure I do understand.

I thought Quebecor went to the hearings and asked CRTC to block the proposed transaction.

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07-01-2013, 10:13 AM
  #86
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Not sure I do understand.

I thought Quebecor went to the hearings and asked CRTC to block the proposed transaction.
They stopped trying to block it in recent weeks. It might be nothing, but...

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07-01-2013, 10:14 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Slashers98 View Post
They stopped trying to block it in recent weeks. It might be nothing, but...
They did not make comments on the transaction in recent weeks?

Possible, I did not follow that particular story.

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07-01-2013, 10:26 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Slashers98 View Post
Why do you think Quebecor let the Bell-Astral merger suddenly happen? So that Bell is on their side for the NHL!
That's some heavy speculation there Slashers. I'd say Quebecor stopped trying to block it because it could no longer be blocked and the CRTC was going to let it go through this time around.

Quebecor's stance on the merger was always ironic at best, and could never have any tangible impact on the outcome. They're just not credible when they try to position themselves as pro-competition.

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07-01-2013, 10:31 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
That's some heavy speculation there Slashers. I'd say Quebecor stopped trying to block it because it could no longer be blocked and the CRTC was going to let it go through this time around.

Quebecor's stance on the merger was always ironic at best, and could never have any tangible impact on the outcome. They're just not credible when they try to position themselves as pro-competition.
Right, it's not completely senseless, but that explanation is much more likely.

With that said, I disagree with your second paragraph. On the one hand, I do not think it has no tangible impact... the CRTC lets other companies talk for a reason. While Québécor is indeed a big corporate entity, I do not understand how it is ironic... when did they try to pull of a merger like that? When did they have that monopoly state of mind like Bell used to have (and I'd say didn't totally lose yet)?

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07-01-2013, 11:17 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Revo View Post
Right, it's not completely senseless, but that explanation is much more likely.

With that said, I disagree with your second paragraph. On the one hand, I do not think it has no tangible impact... the CRTC lets other companies talk for a reason. While Québécor is indeed a big corporate entity, I do not understand how it is ironic... when did they try to pull of a merger like that? When did they have that monopoly state of mind like Bell used to have (and I'd say didn't totally lose yet)?
I translated the official documents regarding the Bell-Astral merger last May, so I know what I am talking about.

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07-01-2013, 11:22 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
I think it's no more needed to point out how of a great market Quebec City is.

It is time people of Quebec City show the NHL how pissed they are at their circus.

And with NHL going to Seattle, all arguments that made the Saskatoons of the world NHL ineligible, are suddenly burned with fire and thrown into a volcano by NHL themselves.
The knock on Saskatoon is that it only has @ 220,000 people in the market. Seattle has 4 MILLION. The situations are hardly analogous.

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07-01-2013, 12:01 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Revo View Post
With that said, I disagree with your second paragraph. On the one hand, I do not think it has no tangible impact... the CRTC lets other companies talk for a reason. While Québécor is indeed a big corporate entity, I do not understand how it is ironic... when did they try to pull of a merger like that? When did they have that monopoly state of mind like Bell used to have (and I'd say didn't totally lose yet)?
It's ironic because Quebecor's "convergence" strategy is predicated on the control of both content providers and distribution channels. The arguments against its purchase of Vidéotron in 2000 (and to a lesser extent, its earlier purchase of TQS) were almost exactly the same as the arguments against the Bell-Astral merger.

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07-01-2013, 12:12 PM
  #93
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The knock on Saskatoon is that it only has @ 220,000 people in the market. Seattle has 4 MILLION. The situations are hardly analogous.
Agreed. Seattle's only drawback is the lack of a modern arena, and the NHL is obviously trying to kickstart the advancement of their arena plans and beat the NBA back into that coveted market.

Sad to say, but the NHL can take Quebec City for granted, as they know that whenever a team goes back there, be it next year or five years from now or a decade+ and through expansion or relocation, the team will be welcomed as liberating heroes.

That being said, I will certainly be surprised to see it happen, considering how much more prep work's been put into place in Quebec City over Seattle in terms of a suitable temporary arena, a replacement arena, a fanbase, an ownership group, and media rights, and other avenues, I'm sure.

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07-01-2013, 12:29 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
It's ironic because Quebecor's "convergence" strategy is predicated on the control of both content providers and distribution channels. The arguments against its purchase of Vidéotron in 2000 (and to a lesser extent, its earlier purchase of TQS) were almost exactly the same as the arguments against the Bell-Astral merger.
A monopoly and a «convergence strategy» are two different things... horizontal VS vertical.

I don't remember... what division of Québécor was in competition with Vidéotron?

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07-01-2013, 12:40 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Slashers98 View Post
I translated the official documents regarding the Bell-Astral merger last May, so I know what I am talking about.
I do not doubt Vidéotron didn't oppose much in the end, I'm just not sure it's reasonable to put that solely on the count of trying to get Montréal/Toronto to be more open to a team in Québec City under Québécor.

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07-01-2013, 12:41 PM
  #96
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A monopoly and a «convergence strategy» are two different things... horizontal VS vertical.

I don't remember... what division of Québécor was in competition with Vidéotron?
Videotron is owned by Quebecor, So I don't know what you are talking about.

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07-01-2013, 01:00 PM
  #97
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He is asking if, at the time they bought Videotron, Quebecor had an asset that could be considered as "competition" to Videotron.

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07-01-2013, 01:17 PM
  #98
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The knock on Saskatoon is that it only has @ 220,000 people in the market. Seattle has 4 MILLION. The situations are hardly analogous.
Point was, that even a small city with a promise to eventually build an arena can bid on NHL teams.

I will also say that Atlanta has 6 MILLION, yet it turned out great. You can arrange the numbers to speak what you want to show whenever you want. Glendale council showed it many times.

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07-01-2013, 01:22 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by GF View Post
I've given up.
If they relocate to Seattle, they can announce whatever they want in terms of expansion. I'm out. I've put with 5years of finishing last in the late 80s early 90s, I'm not gonna rejoice over getting yet another sucky team for 5 years.

I hope Seattle turns up like the failure Atlanta and Phoenix has been. Rushing a franchise in a market not ready to take it has proven it is a sure way to fail. Jamais deux sans trois. Good luck Gary.

Elvis has left the building.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanStaal#1Fan View Post
Do you have a source on that or is it your own speculation?



That, especially the part about Seattle failing miserably (and I'd add that I wish them a stable of Alexandre Daigle-type busts).

We have done everything to show the NHL we deserved a team and we would be thanked by seeing the Coyotes move to a market that ISN'T READY (even if they CAN play in Key Arena and even if they have owners ready to take MASSIVE losses for the first 3-4 seaons) and by MAYBEEEEEEEE getting an expansion team in 3-4-5-43284923 years? Yeah, we should absolutely put up with it and say nothing... At worse, screw live NHL hockey, I'll continue to go to the Montreal IMpact, Rouge et Or, Capitales and watch the Pens (and a ******** of other sporting events) on TV. I don't need the Nords to be happy, I'd love to get them back and I'd love for the kids in my entourage to experience what I did as a kid, but not at all costs. The question we have to really ask ourselves is: Do we really want to be part of a League that has no real respect for us? If it is on our terms, yeah, if not, screw them, Quebec City will continue to be a thriving sports city. Minor league, but still thriving.
Can we like dial back the hate ffs? You aren't doing your cause any good by spewing venom at all and sundry.

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07-01-2013, 01:29 PM
  #100
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I could tell you why I feel the way I feel, but it would likely get me banned. So let's just me say this: No, I won't "dial back the hate", quite the contrary, the hate is more likely to grow than to disappear. I won't express it that much, but it will be there and it will be massive.

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