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The fate of Ryan Miller

View Poll Results: The fate of Ryan Miller
Traded before the season 75 55.56%
Traded at the deadline 22 16.30%
Walks away after the season 22 16.30%
Signs an extension before the season 5 3.70%
Signs an extension during the season 11 8.15%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-29-2013, 04:21 PM
  #1
Eichel15
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The fate of Ryan Miller

"We didn't think the value for trading Ryan was out in the market. He is a valuable member of the Buffalo Sabres and will continue to be so for many years."

Something along these lines is what I predict Darcy to say. My gut says we're stuck with the drama queen until Ryan decides to walk away.

Vote for what you honestly believe will happen.

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06-29-2013, 04:25 PM
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Moskau
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He will either sign or be traded at some point. People need to calm down about this. There's no selling market for a goaltender right now. Is Regier supposed to trade him to a team without them knowing?


Last edited by Moskau: 06-29-2013 at 04:31 PM.
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06-29-2013, 04:31 PM
  #3
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He's not walking for nothing. I'd be fine with a reasonable extension if no one is willing to give much for Miller in a trade and, of course, if he's willing to re-sign. I think he'll be dealt this summer, though.

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06-29-2013, 04:40 PM
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haseoke39
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If Darcy's not happy with the market now, one's not going to magically appear in a month. Darcy will hold onto him until he faces the choice to lose him for nothing, so Ryan gets moved to be someone's #1B at the deadline for less.

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06-29-2013, 04:51 PM
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I think he's traded after the draft but before the season. Some team in need of a goalie (Philadelphia, Calgary, Columbus, NY Islanders) is going to be lose musical chairs when goalies start signing/moving, and that's when they up their offer for Miller.

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06-29-2013, 04:53 PM
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I voted traded before season but there was a little "hope bias" in there. I think it's very likely they extend him but it's up to Miller. If Miller's open to it at reasonable terms then it probably happens in part because his trade value is going to suck.

If that option isn't really there, though, then Darcy will trade him for whatever he can and I suspect he'd do so before the season rather than take it to the deadline.

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06-29-2013, 04:59 PM
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I don't think his trade value is anything near where it makes sense to trade him. I also don't think that he necessarily needs to go. I believe he'll get an extension and will continue playing in a goalie-tandem with Hackett.

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06-29-2013, 05:03 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
If Darcy's not happy with the market now, one's not going to magically appear in a month. Darcy will hold onto him until he faces the choice to lose him for nothing, so Ryan gets moved to be someone's #1B at the deadline for less.
Things like "the first compliance buyout window closing" and "free agency starting" aren't exactly "magic" but could very well play a big role in setting the market for Miller

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06-29-2013, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
If Darcy's not happy with the market now, one's not going to magically appear in a month. Darcy will hold onto him until he faces the choice to lose him for nothing, so Ryan gets moved to be someone's #1B at the deadline for less.
Likely outcome. Agreed.

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06-29-2013, 05:33 PM
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I would rather take a little less before the draft just so I could use the assets right away versus taking more after the draft and having to wait a whole another year just before you see anything result from the trade. Trading Ryan Miller after the draft, but before the season does nothing to excite me. Trading Ryan Miller at the deadline makes me angry. Letting Miller walk for nothing will make me irate. Signing Miller to an extension will make me switch my fanhood.

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06-29-2013, 05:34 PM
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Signs an extension hopefully

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06-29-2013, 06:08 PM
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I say traded before the season. For Miller to sign an extension, he's going to want enough time to see how well off the team is during the season. I doubt, even with a solid draft, that Miller gains enough confidence in a quick turnaround with just summer moves. Waiting until during the season is going to be too long for Regier, because the last thing he can afford is another walk away scenario like B/D. So when Miller wants to wait and see, Regier won't be able to and deals him for a player/prospect and pick.

However, I have no problem at all with Miller eventually staying at around 5 mil per. He's got another 3-5 prime years left, and we can't be sold yet on any prospect becoming a legit starter yet. The Miller detractors don't see much in his trade value, so I fail to see how extending him has much impact on a rebuild.

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06-29-2013, 06:16 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
I would rather take a little less before the draft just so I could use the assets right away versus taking more after the draft and having to wait a whole another year just before you see anything result from the trade. Trading Ryan Miller after the draft, but before the season does nothing to excite me. Trading Ryan Miller at the deadline makes me angry. Letting Miller walk for nothing will make me irate. Signing Miller to an extension will make me switch my fanhood.
Use the assets right away how?

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06-29-2013, 06:22 PM
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Use the assets right away how?
I think the poster is presuming the return is picks.

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06-29-2013, 06:29 PM
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he'll get moved once guys like Halak, Luongo and some FAs are off the market

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06-29-2013, 06:31 PM
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I think the poster is presuming the return is picks.
Makes sense then.

Some of the reports I see seem to indicate what I was talking about before, that teams are trying hard to include 2014 picks in their deals rather than this year's. I think we'd have to take a hit in overall return to get picks in the first two rounds of this draft. Not that I'd be against it, but it wouldn't be the worst thing if we get a greater overall return after (or before/during) the draft with 2014 picks instead.

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he'll get moved once guys like Halak, Luongo and some FAs are off the market
Luongo's a big one... if he gets bought out he's the obvious choice for a lot of teams who'd be interested in trading for Miller.

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06-29-2013, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by CaptPantalones View Post
he'll get moved once guys like Halak, Luongo and some FAs are off the market
How many teams do you think are on the market for a starting goalie?

It's a buyer's market this year. Waiting to be the last guy with goods to sell in a buyer's market is not a good strategy.

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06-29-2013, 06:51 PM
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Makes sense then.

Some of the reports I see seem to indicate what I was talking about before, that teams are trying hard to include 2014 picks in their deals rather than this year's. I think we'd have to take a hit in overall return to get picks in the first two rounds of this draft. Not that I'd be against it, but it wouldn't be the worst thing if we get a greater overall return after (or before/during) the draft with 2014 picks instead.



Luongo's a big one... if he gets bought out he's the obvious choice for a lot of teams who'd be interested in trading for Miller.
The main piece is most likely going to be a pick, presumably a 1st round pick. I just have no ambition to wait until 2014 to see who we draft from the Miller trade, then wait another 3 years just to see the guy in a uniform. So the return from Miller won't even be an impact for 4 years. Not what I want.

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06-29-2013, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
How many teams do you think are on the market for a starting goalie?

It's a buyer's market this year. Waiting to be the last guy with goods to sell in a buyer's market is not a good strategy.
It is if the price is so marginal as to make it not worth it. If the return is a 3rd and we retain half his salary, you don't have to accept that. Wait until further along the offseason, even training camp. Hell, take him into the season at that point and trade him at the deadline. There has to be a point where the offer is so bad that you don't go help another team for nothing. What if the only team really making an offer is Philly and they make the offer I just said. Are we seriously going to help them for a 3rd? No.

Extreme example? Perhaps, but it illustrates the point.

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Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
The main piece is most likely going to be a pick, presumably a 1st round pick. I just have no ambition to wait until 2014 to see who we draft from the Miller trade, then wait another 3 years just to see the guy in a uniform. So the return from Miller won't even be an impact for 4 years. Not what I want.
I would absolutely not count on there being a 1st round pick in this year's draft for Miller. If you don't want to wait 3-4 years for a low 1st rounder to have an impact then you don't want a 1st round pick, because that's the norm. This is just another manifestation of impatience. Are you sure you can handle a rebuild?

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06-29-2013, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
It is if the price is so marginal as to make it not worth it. If the return is a 3rd and we retain half his salary, you don't have to accept that. Wait until further along the offseason, even training camp. Hell, take him into the season at that point and trade him at the deadline. There has to be a point where the offer is so bad that you don't go help another team for nothing. What if the only team really making an offer is Philly and they make the offer I just said. Are we seriously going to help them for a 3rd? No.

Extreme example? Perhaps, but it illustrates the point.



I would absolutely not count on there being a 1st round pick in this year's draft for Miller. If you don't want to wait 3-4 years for a low 1st rounder to have an impact then you don't want a 1st round pick, because that's the norm. This is just another manifestation of impatience. Are you sure you can handle a rebuild?
I already made a thread about how stupid I think rebuilds are especially when you have Pegula type bucks. I think these multiple year tank jobs are cowardly ways out. Do you see Philly relying on tanking to get better after a bad season?!?!

I think we have enough young assets and picks to get highly competitive next year. When you have guys like Skinner and Seguin rumored to be available, I think you could turn this thing around very quickly. I also feel like there is nice some nice quality out there with buy outs. I just see no effort out of the front office and it is a joke. Losing is now acceptable and it makes me sick.

I think you could use the Miller pick this year to get a draft pick higher than 8 and 16. 8 and the pick from Miller could get us to 5 or 6 and get us a chance at nichushkin who is seen as a player who could come in next year and be a top 6 forward.

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06-29-2013, 07:14 PM
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It is if the price is so marginal as to make it not worth it. If the return is a 3rd and we retain half his salary, you don't have to accept that. Wait until further along the offseason, even training camp. Hell, take him into the season at that point and trade him at the deadline. There has to be a point where the offer is so bad that you don't go help another team for nothing. What if the only team really making an offer is Philly and they make the offer I just said. Are we seriously going to help them for a 3rd? No.

Extreme example? Perhaps, but it illustrates the point.
Consistently using the most extreme logical outgrowths to defend a plan of action doesn't exactly sell me that it's a good plan of action. Yes, if all we're getting is a 7th and we have to retain half salary, don't both trading him.

Living in that world, though, I'm pretty sure I could rationalize anything Darcy decided to do or not do. I just don't think it's probable that he's getting insultingly low offers, or that they'll become much better offers in a month. Can't prove it, but I'm not getting especially enlightened by you saying over and over that the best option on the table must be a low fourth, because the default argument here is to rationalize what Darcy is doing. In this kind of logical world, you're not going to ever be able to criticize Darcy for doing nothing.

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06-29-2013, 07:21 PM
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I already made a thread about how stupid I think rebuilds are especially when you have Pegula type bucks. I think these multiple year tank jobs are cowardly ways out. Do you see Philly relying on tanking to get better after a bad season?!?!
Why would anyone want to emulate Philadelphia? They sucked years ago and botched the development of JVR. Then they signed Briere and got absolutely carried by Chris Pronger. Instead addressing the 1 or 2 needs they had Holmgrem gets rid of their 2 best young players and ends up worse off. Then when Pronger misses a season they once again suck. They may have an entertaining GM but I'm not sure how they're much better off than Buffalo.

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06-29-2013, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Consistently using the most extreme logical outgrowths to defend a plan of action doesn't exactly sell me that it's a good plan of action. Yes, if all we're getting is a 7th and we have to retain half salary, don't both trading him.

Living in that world, though, I'm pretty sure I could rationalize anything Darcy decided to do or not do. I just don't think it's probable that he's getting insultingly low offers, or that they'll become much better offers in a month. Can't prove it, but I'm not getting especially enlightened by you saying over and over that the best option on the table must be a low fourth, because the default argument here is to rationalize what Darcy is doing. In this kind of logical world, you're not going to ever be able to criticize Darcy for doing nothing.
Well I said a 3rd, so does a 2nd make it better? I honestly think it's very believable that he's yet to receive an offer of a 1st in this draft.

In no way am I saying "over and over again" that the best option on the table is a 4th. I haven't really said anything about what the offers might or mightn't be, because I don't presume where it's not very reasonable to do so. I mentioned a 3rd in my comment and I did not imply that is what I believe the offer on the table was, it was an example. If you accept that the 3rd is not a return worth keeping salary and helping the Flyers for, then what is? A 2nd? A 1st in next year's draft (quite possibly a playoff team), 15th overall this year, 15th overall + Read?

It's also not true that "in this kind of world" you can't criticize Darcy. All I'm doing is not making assumptions. Frankly, I don't see how anyone can criticize Darcy over this and believe they're being reasonable because they have literally no idea what teams are offering what for which goalies. It's only a few days into the offseason and teams are likely assessing their cap situation and testing the waters of the markets, especially where goalies are concerned.

Your whole comment here seems to be geared towards painting me as being some fantasist bending reality to justify Darcy when the truth is Darcy doesn't need to justify anything about this situation up to this point. You and others are being extremely unreasonable and I don't exactly see you offering any kind of circumstantial evidence that there are teams strongly interested in Miller and offering anything at all at this early halcyon point of the offseason.

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I already made a thread about how stupid I think rebuilds are especially when you have Pegula type bucks. I think these multiple year tank jobs are cowardly ways out. Do you see Philly relying on tanking to get better after a bad season?!?!

I think we have enough young assets and picks to get highly competitive next year. When you have guys like Skinner and Seguin rumored to be available, I think you could turn this thing around very quickly. I also feel like there is nice some nice quality out there with buy outs. I just see no effort out of the front office and it is a joke. Losing is now acceptable and it makes me sick.

I think you could use the Miller pick this year to get a draft pick higher than 8 and 16. 8 and the pick from Miller could get us to 5 or 6 and get us a chance at nichushkin who is seen as a player who could come in next year and be a top 6 forward.
Skinner and Seguin have not proven they are franchise players. If you think having either of them on this team suddenly makes us contenders or even a playoff team I don't know what to tell you, since Pominville is a better player than either of them right now.

As to the rest I don't really want to get into finer points about it but you can't take a poor team and suddenly make it good just with trades and free agency. You need homegrown players to emerge or it just isn't happening. Philly was/is no different, nevermind that they haven't exactly had a ton of success and aren't the best example.

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06-29-2013, 07:34 PM
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Why would anyone want to emulate Philadelphia? They sucked years ago and botched the development of JVR. Then they signed Briere and got absolutely carried by Chris Pronger. Instead addressing the 1 or 2 needs they had Holmgrem gets rid of their 2 best young players and ends up worse off. Then when Pronger misses a season they once again suck. They may have an entertaining GM but I'm not sure how they're much better off than Buffalo.
They went from the suck, to the quarterfinals, then to the Stanley cup. They were in first place in their division the next season.

I guarantee you they will be proactive this year (already have been) and will be competitive next season and be competitive a lot longer than the Sabres will be.

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06-29-2013, 07:39 PM
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Skinner and Seguin have not proven they are franchise players. If you think having either of them on this team suddenly makes us contenders or even a playoff team I don't know what to tell you, since Pominville is a better player than either of them right now.

As to the rest I don't really want to get into finer points about it but you can't take a poor team and suddenly make it good just with trades and free agency. You need homegrown players to emerge or it just isn't happening. Philly was/is no different, nevermind that they haven't exactly had a ton of success and aren't the best example.
Skinner and Seguin are like 21 years old. Don't sit here and act like they can't go with a bigger role. They have a lot more potential and past NHL success than any of our young guys we currently have.

So because Pominville couldn't be a successful captain, no winger will ever be useful to this team?!?! Seriously what the heck did that Pominville statement have anything to do with obtaining young, good talent.

You need to get a couple of these young guns, then sign a vet and a nice tough FA. I just think you can keep Vanek, and build the talent level of the forwards up. Vanek doesn't want to stay because frickin Regier is sitting here staying he will lose on purpose for god knows how long. Show a true commitment and he will love to stay here.

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