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Pietrangelo's contract: what would you give him?

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Old
06-30-2013, 01:27 PM
  #26
MattyMo35
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Ideally we can get Petro for 7x8, but if he's determined to get more, we have to pay him. He's the franchise, we don't have a choice. If that means moving some contracts to make room for him, so be it.

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06-30-2013, 03:09 PM
  #27
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Pietrangelo doesn't deserve anything in the 7s. He barely deserves to be be in the 6s. He isn't 2 million dollars better than Shattenkirk and last season, he wasn't better than OEL of Phoenix. Pietrangelo was one of the Blues biggest underachievers last season, why the hell should he be rewarded with a top dollar contract?

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06-30-2013, 04:52 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by GrandPapillon View Post
Pietrangelo doesn't deserve anything in the 7s. He barely deserves to be be in the 6s. He isn't 2 million dollars better than Shattenkirk and last season, he wasn't better than OEL of Phoenix. Pietrangelo was one of the Blues biggest underachievers last season, why the hell should he be rewarded with a top dollar contract?
I have to agree with this. It seems to me that Pietrangelo is overrated by the Blues fans. Im not being neggo here but I dont think Pietro is that much better of a player than Shattenkirk.

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06-30-2013, 04:56 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by RR10 View Post
I have to agree with this. It seems to me that Pietrangelo is overrated by the Blues fans. Im not being neggo here but I dont think Pietro is that much better of a player than Shattenkirk.
Pietrangelo is significantly better than Shattenkirk, significantly.

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06-30-2013, 04:58 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
I agree I'm not really sold on Letang much at all. I think his offensive numbers are inflated and defensively he's average at best.
Letangs offensive numbers are better and he is a playoff performer too. And tbh Pietro had an average season last year defensively.

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06-30-2013, 05:00 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Pietrangelo is significantly better than Shattenkirk, significantly.
Well that's your opinion. Imo Pietro is slightly better but no way near 3 mill $ better!

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06-30-2013, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Pietrangelo is significantly better than Shattenkirk, significantly.
Pietrangelo is a better player to the extent that if you asked 100 hockey fans who they would rather have between the two, no less than 99 would say Pietrangelo.

However, if the question becomes would you rather have Shattenkirk at 4 million dollars or Pietrangelo for 7+ million dollars, I think the answers would be quite a bit different.

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06-30-2013, 05:05 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by GrandPapillon View Post
Pietrangelo is a better player to the extent that if you asked 100 hockey fans who they would rather have between the two, no less than 99 would say Pietrangelo.

However, if the question becomes would you rather have Shattenkirk at 4 million dollars or Pietrangelo for 7+ million dollars, I think the answers would be quite a bit different.
Pietrangelo can be the cornerstone of a franchise, Shattenkirk will never touch that level.

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06-30-2013, 05:11 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Pietrangelo can be the cornerstone of a franchise, Shattenkirk will never touch that level.
Shattenkirk can absolutely be a top pairing guy though for the next 10 years, and a good one, probably being one of the top offensive defensemen in the league for years to come. I don't know if the Blues can afford the luxury of having Shattenkirk be their 2nd pairing RD. Pietrangelo also had quite a few growing pains last season, and at the moment there are at least 5 other young D that I would rather have.

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06-30-2013, 05:13 PM
  #35
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Pretty much everyone on here agreed that Pietrangelo was only worth around 2 mil more than Shattenkirk. I'll go a little higher than that and say Petro is really worth 6.5 right now. Anything under 6.7 or so would be ideal. He's not worth 7 yet. He's a great player, but he doesn't have the hardware or playoff performance yet to deserve that type of money. That's just my opinion. He's been fine in the playoffs, but I'd like to see him step up and control the game a little more. No doubt you do anything to lock him up long term though.

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06-30-2013, 05:50 PM
  #36
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I'm not sure if some of you are underrating Pietrangelo or overrating Shattenkirk.

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06-30-2013, 05:53 PM
  #37
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I would easily pay Petro $2M+ more than Shatty. He is that much better. Easily.

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07-01-2013, 12:57 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
Ideally we can get Petro for 7x8, but if he's determined to get more, we have to pay him. He's the franchise, we don't have a choice. If that means moving some contracts to make room for him, so be it.
Don't agree with the first word nut the rest is the naked truth.

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07-01-2013, 03:12 AM
  #39
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I thought Hitch may have changed something and it was causing Pietrangelo and the team some problems on the breakout. I think a full training camp will help the entire team, effectively making Petro's job that much easier next year.


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07-01-2013, 04:47 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
Letang just got 8 years @ $7.25m. I think we have our new marker...
Now I'm sure 8 Million per year is what his agent will request, and of course Petro will get it.

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07-01-2013, 08:40 AM
  #41
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He will get a deal no better than Karlsson's.

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07-01-2013, 09:07 AM
  #42
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He will get a deal no better than Karlsson's.
If that is the case, then the deal will be done by tomorrow.

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07-01-2013, 10:16 AM
  #43
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We know that Petro is great and is most likely going to be great for a long time but the fact of the matter is he that he has not accomplished what Doughty (Olympic Gold) and Karlsson (Norris) did when they were negotiating their second contracts.

The Blues are going to have a to pay but I don't see why both parties wouldn't agree to an 8 year, $52 million ($6.5 cap hit) deal where the salary structure is set up in an escalator format similar to Erik Karlsson. Start at $5 mil in year 1 while the Blues ownership is still getting settled and attempting to woo the business community to raise revenue and end at $8 mil in year 8. He'd be paid like a star in years 4-8.

Petro isn't on Doughty's level but he's worth more than Ekman-Larsson which puts him at roughly a $6.5 mil cap hit. The Letang contract isn't really a comparable as he's 26 and negotiating his 3rd contract.

Maybe Petro's camp wants a bridge deal that will further establish his worth. The cap will rise after those two years but that is inconsequential to the budget Blues. The Blues have never had a problem taking care of their own as long as it's in reason. This negotiation will only become contentious if the Petro camp wants to milk every cent they can from a team that simply can't afford to do that.

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07-01-2013, 10:49 AM
  #44
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Karlsson hadn't won a Norris when he signed, just nominated. These things are bullet points though, the agent doesn't need that to get a better deal.

Comparables go out the window if he receives and offer sheet, which I think is pretty likely. The current system basically encourages them for the top players.

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07-01-2013, 10:54 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by TheOrganist View Post
We know that Petro is great and is most likely going to be great for a long time but the fact of the matter is he that he has not accomplished what Doughty (Olympic Gold) and Karlsson (Norris) did when they were negotiating their second contracts.

The Blues are going to have a to pay but I don't see why both parties wouldn't agree to an 8 year, $52 million ($6.5 cap hit) deal where the salary structure is set up in an escalator format similar to Erik Karlsson. Start at $5 mil in year 1 while the Blues ownership is still getting settled and attempting to woo the business community to raise revenue and end at $8 mil in year 8. He'd be paid like a star in years 4-8.

Petro isn't on Doughty's level but he's worth more than Ekman-Larsson which puts him at roughly a $6.5 mil cap hit. The Letang contract isn't really a comparable as he's 26 and negotiating his 3rd contract.

Maybe Petro's camp wants a bridge deal that will further establish his worth. The cap will rise after those two years but that is inconsequential to the budget Blues. The Blues have never had a problem taking care of their own as long as it's in reason. This negotiation will only become contentious if the Petro camp wants to milk every cent they can from a team that simply can't afford to do that.
This is pretty much what I've been thinking, you just said it a lot better than I would of, these comparisons aren't apples to apples. That doesn't mean he won't great. Also the only thing I would add is Armstrong understands their situation and he's not shown to be a sucker.

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07-01-2013, 11:28 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
Karlsson hadn't won a Norris when he signed, just nominated. These things are bullet points though, the agent doesn't need that to get a better deal.

Comparables go out the window if he receives and offer sheet, which I think is pretty likely. The current system basically encourages them for the top players.
A player getting an offer sheet can never be described as "pretty likely." We'll see what shakes out after the compliance buyout period ends but the big market threats are being forced to pare salary if anything with the cap coming down (biggest reason for lack of movement leading up to the draft) and the inability to front load mega million signing bonuses combined with the max contract being 7 years majorly lessens the power of an offer sheet.

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07-01-2013, 11:44 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by bluesman11 View Post
This is pretty much what I've been thinking, you just said it a lot better than I would of, these comparisons aren't apples to apples. That doesn't mean he won't great. Also the only thing I would add is Armstrong understands their situation and he's not shown to be a sucker.
Agreed. I think the Blues have more leverage than people think. What, are the Flyers going to offer him a 7 year deal where his salary takes up 18% of the cap? Good luck in negotiations with Giroux next year. The Flyers will have two players making $20 million.

I think if anything the Weber embarrassment from last year finally taught Philly (and yes, I'm picking on Philly b/c they are the most referenced poaching threat) that in a cap world, it's all about drafting and developing. The days of poaching a teams best player or taking advantage of a small market team and trading for their rights (Hartnell/Timonen way back when) are of the past. Big market teams are finding it harder and harder to use their financial muscle and the new CBA lessens that power even further. Every team in the league locks up their young stars and the majority of the players that do make it to free agency are middling older stars or decent second liners and fourth defenseman.

I believe Philly has finally recognized that they had to change course and attempt to develop some really good, young defenseman. They started that process yesterday with Morin and Hagg.

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07-01-2013, 11:53 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by TheOrganist View Post
A player getting an offer sheet can never be described as "pretty likely." We'll see what shakes out after the compliance buyout period ends but the big market threats are being forced to pare salary if anything with the cap coming down (biggest reason for lack of movement leading up to the draft) and the inability to front load mega million signing bonuses combined with the max contract being 7 years majorly lessens the power of an offer sheet.
Sorry, to be clear, I do not expect him to sign an offersheet. But I fully expect he'll get at least one if it gets to that point though, and he can start talking to other teams on Wednesday.

This idea that offersheets are really rare is only based on how few are signed. Do people honestly believe that the all, or even a majority, of offersheets are accepted by players? Really? I would suspect that in majority of cases players are happy in their current city and want work a deal out there and use them as leverage in negotiations. Better to work something out that is mutually agreeable rather than forcing a team to match.

But when $8.4m is only 2x1st, 2nd & 3rd... where is the downside in throwing out a 7 year deal for that kind of cash? The arguments about pushing player prices up only really holds water when we are talking more middle of the pack guys, like Stewart, and not elite level guys. The Flyers have $9m in cap space and 22 guys signed.

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07-01-2013, 12:50 PM
  #49
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Sorry, to be clear, I do not expect him to sign an offersheet. But I fully expect he'll get at least one if it gets to that point though, and he can start talking to other teams on Wednesday.

This idea that offersheets are really rare is only based on how few are signed. Do people honestly believe that the all, or even a majority, of offersheets are accepted by players? Really? I would suspect that in majority of cases players are happy in their current city and want work a deal out there and use them as leverage in negotiations. Better to work something out that is mutually agreeable rather than forcing a team to match.

But when $8.4m is only 2x1st, 2nd & 3rd... where is the downside in throwing out a 7 year deal for that kind of cash? The arguments about pushing player prices up only really holds water when we are talking more middle of the pack guys, like Stewart, and not elite level guys. The Flyers have $9m in cap space and 22 guys signed.
Considering the premium paid to make matching an offer sheet tough to stomach for management and ownership, why would any player not jump at the opportunity to make millions more? While I don't recall hardly any reports on this topic, I would take an educated guess that roughly 100% of offer sheets tendered are signed.

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07-01-2013, 02:11 PM
  #50
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I don't think that an offer sheet is very likely. Consider that this year is a 'perfect storm' scenario, working against offer sheets:

- The cap is going down, and many teams are being forced to shed salary
- Teams can no longer send offer sheets for more than 7 years
- Offer sheets can no longer be heavily front-loaded to dissuade budget teams from matching

All of those things combine to make an offer sheet even less likely than it was before, so I really don't think it's much of a threat.

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