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Winnipeg Jets select D Josh Morrissey (1/13)

View Poll Results: How do you feel about the Morrissey pick?
Love it 33 14.73%
Like it 73 32.59%
Meh 56 25.00%
Don't like it 28 12.50%
Hate it 34 15.18%
Voters: 224. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-01-2013, 11:51 PM
  #251
allan5oh
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If the glove fits....

It's also very hard to predict what other teams want, although I'm sure good NHL teams do predict what their competitors want. At the end of the day, staying where you are is the safe thing to do. Chevy seems to be making a lot of "safe" picks especially early.

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07-02-2013, 12:54 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
If the glove fits....

It's also very hard to predict what other teams want, although I'm sure good NHL teams do predict what their competitors want. At the end of the day, staying where you are is the safe thing to do. Chevy seems to be making a lot of "safe" picks especially early.
Gambling on Scheifele's upside was the opposite of safe.

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07-02-2013, 01:40 AM
  #253
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Someone arrest this man. He's talking a lot of ****ing sense.
OMG, you're right! What if we had traded down to 10th and they had traded up to 8th?!?!?! They might have taken Scheifele and we might have had to take Dougie Hamilton or Sean Couturier!

Wow, logic. It's ... sensical!

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07-02-2013, 01:54 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by fatschoonerrat View Post
OMG, you're right! What if we had traded down to 10th and they had traded up to 8th?!?!?! They might have taken Scheifele and we might have had to take Dougie Hamilton or Sean Couturier!

Wow, logic. It's ... sensical!
Except if Dougie Hamilton and Couturier were higher than Scheifele on Chevy's draft list, they would have been taken instead of Scheifele.

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07-02-2013, 02:12 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by fatschoonerrat View Post
OMG, you're right! What if we had traded down to 10th and they had traded up to 8th?!?!?! They might have taken Scheifele and we might have had to take Dougie Hamilton or Sean Couturier!

Wow, logic. It's ... sensical!
Except...Neither Couturier nor Hamilton would be available at 10. They were already drafted at 8 and 9 respectively.

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07-02-2013, 07:38 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Getting more assets is always a great thing, but I am a firm believer at the draft when you know and have your desired player in sight, you take him. If your scouts believe in him, are sold in him, if you as the GM feel the same, you draft the player. 7th overall, 9th overall, 13th overall - at the end of the day it is just a number.

Look at it this way, with Scheifele at #7 overall, for example. Many upon many fans said we should have traded back, collected an asset and then picked Mark Scheifele. Ok, say we did, say we traded from 7th to 11th, we felt safe we could land our desired prospect (Scheifele) at 11th, while also getting a 3rd round pick in the process. Sounds great, right? Now what if Carolina, sitting at pick 12, now one pick behind us, also covet the same player we do (and by the sounds of it they sure did - great refresher, knorthern knight ) , so they trade to move up to secure him, thus leapfrogging us. We just missed our guy. But hey, we got that extra asset, right?

To be blunt, **** the extra asset, if you like the player, trust your scouts, your own smarts, and draft him.
Marcel Comeau doesn't exactly have the greatest of track records as a head scout...

While I understand your point of view, I don't think acquiring an extra asset, especially 2nd and 3rds if that was the currency to drop a few spots, is something to scoff at. Especially when the Jets are as talent-poor as they are. Parlaying a 3rd and a 5th got a Frolik. What would a third second have been worth?

Would it have been a risk to drop 2-3 spots for a 2nd? Yep. if it paid off, you're laughing. If it didn't? Then you take your "next guy", like Morrissey was once Domi was taken, and you keep parlaying assets into players. IMO, of course.


Last edited by arby18: 07-02-2013 at 08:44 AM.
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Old
07-02-2013, 07:43 AM
  #257
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i still like Schiefele more than Couturier..

and i am happy with the Schiefele, Trouba..
more than if we have picked Hamilton and , Forsberg?

Josh Morrissey is a pick for the future, 3-4 years down when Enstrom will most likely get traded.

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07-02-2013, 07:50 AM
  #258
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i still like Schiefele more than Couturier..

and i am happy with the Schiefele, Trouba..
more than if we have picked Hamilton and , Forsberg?

Josh Morrissey is a pick for the future, 3-4 years down when Enstrom will most likely get traded.
I agree with everything you said... except for the part about Enstrom. We have no LHD depth and him and Morrissey will be staples along with Bogo Trouba.

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07-02-2013, 08:42 AM
  #259
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One thing that interested me about Chevy's comments about Morrissey was his perception of the value of skilled, puck-moving defensemen. I think that's an important point, and probably the reason that the Jets were keen on Morrissey. There weren't really any other D in this draft with the same blend of speed, puck skills and intensity.

What I liked about this draft was the clear indication that the Jets value talent, hockey sense and character, not just size.

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07-02-2013, 09:17 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
One thing that interested me about Chevy's comments about Morrissey was his perception of the value of skilled, puck-moving defensemen. I think that's an important point, and probably the reason that the Jets were keen on Morrissey. There weren't really any other D in this draft with the same blend of speed, puck skills and intensity.

What I liked about this draft was the clear indication that the Jets value talent, hockey sense and character, not just size.
Yea this draft established that our palate is slightly more complex than some thought. Morrissey and especially Petan showed we are not a one trick pony.

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07-02-2013, 09:39 AM
  #261
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These concepts about "consensus" and "reaching" confuses me...

I talked to a buddy out west and he was raving that the Jets got the "steal" of the draft. He said that Morrissey is the type of player that other teams actually key and game-plan on, and that he has a super unique blend of high end skill, smarts and physical intensity (says keep your head on a swivel!).

After watching some clips, wow. That last clip of video posted here where he lays out 3 hits and then a scrap with his team down 2 goals was clearly calculated on his part to try and get the Raiders going.

THIS is exactly the type of guys I hope Chevy is looking for. Scholastically smart, intense, competitive = character. If we are worried about consensus, then lets fire all scouts buy a draft preview book, and pick the next guy on the list.

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07-02-2013, 09:45 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by arby18 View Post
While I understand your point of view, I don't think acquiring an extra asset, especially 2nd and 3rds if that was the currency to drop a few spots, is something to scoff at. Especially when the Jets are as talent-poor as they are. Parlaying a 3rd and a 5th got a Frolik. What would a third second have been worth?
Would it have been a risk to drop 2-3 spots for a 2nd? Yep. if it paid off, you're laughing. If it didn't? Then you take your "next guy", like Morrissey was once Domi was taken, and you keep parlaying assets into players. IMO, of course.
I don't believe it wise to play this sort of trading game in the first round. There are relatively few players at #13 who ever make an impact and the Jets clearly had a very short list. Moving on to the "next guy" was clearly not their MO.
To illustrate: Of the last 10 drafts, looking at players picked at #13:
-there are no 'stars', at least not yet
-only 4 players have played regularly in the NHL
-Of the forwards, only one has > 0.5 PPG in the NHL; interestingly, his name is....Drew Staaford

IMO, what the Jets did in picking Morrissey is recognize that traditional picking at #!3 yields mediocre results so they used their own organizational intelligence and extensive due diligence to select someone has a high likelihood to make it and have an real impact 3-5 from now.
It's fine to speculate and move imaginary pieces around a virtual draft board, so long as you realize it has very little bearing on the decision making process in the real world of hockey.

Edit: I didn't go back far enough. Dustin Brown, drafted in 2003, also has >0.5 pp and is arguably a star, even tho I hate him!


Last edited by scelaton: 07-02-2013 at 10:19 AM. Reason: research error
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07-02-2013, 09:57 AM
  #263
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Except...Neither Couturier nor Hamilton would be available at 10. They were already drafted at 8 and 9 respectively.
Hard to be picked 8th when in his scenario Schief was taken 8th... One of those two would still be available.

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07-02-2013, 10:07 AM
  #264
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If you have 2-3+ players you could select and you really don't care which one you get, if they're pretty interchangeable to you, sure, trade down and pick-up an asset in the process. If you have a guy you're really targeting, you really like, then in my opinion you go for it, you get your guy.

Here is what I would have really liked to see happen, but for whatever the reason(s) it didn't. Philly picked 11th, Phoenix 12th, us at 13. If we really wanted Domi, I would have loved to see us swing a deal with Philly, give them some sort of pick in order to leapfrog Phoenix, thus allowing us to draft Max Domi, Phoenix would have picked whoever (likely not a defenceman as they seem pretty stocked there), and Philly would have then (in all likelihood) have gotten their guy Morin at 13.

But, it didn't happen. With that being said, maybe we didn't like Max Domi *that* much, or, maybe Philly knew who they wanted and didn't want to take any risks, they wanted their guy in Morin. It's hard to go back and forth thinking 'we should have done this' or 'we should have done that'. So many variables come into play.

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07-02-2013, 10:12 AM
  #265
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If you have 2-3+ players you could select and you really don't care which one you get, if they're pretty interchangeable to you, sure, trade down and pick-up an asset in the process. If you have a guy you're really targeting, you really like, then in my opinion you go for it, you get your guy.
Exactly. If Morrisey is #1 on their board, why risk trading down for some extra picks when your guy is sitting right there for the taking?

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07-02-2013, 10:15 AM
  #266
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Exactly. If Morrisey is #1 on their board, why risk trading down for some extra picks when your guy is sitting right there for the taking?
Ya, we're on the same wavelength.

Even if Morrissey wasn't #1 on our list, say Domi was, as it appears he was, we obviously didn't get Domi, so should we have then traded back, picked up an asset and then taken Morrissey later? maybe, it just depends how far we could have went back, 2 spots? 4-5 spots? who knows. But what if we did that and a team then made their own trade, leapfrogged us and chose Morrissey. Then we just lost another guy we wanted. Sure you can say "well just pick the next guy on your list" ... that's just getting foolish, in my opinion, how long do you want to play that game? Again, if there are 2-3+ players you have in mind and they're interchangeable, sure, make the trade and pick whoever is available to you, but if you like your guy, just draft him and call him yours.

Sometimes, it's just better sticking to your guns, trusting yourself and your staff, and taking the guy YOU want. One thing I do admire about us is we stick to our own guns, our own plan. If it is successful, great, if not, then that is this organizations fault, no question. We are an organization who marches to the beat of our own drum, not everyone will like that.


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07-02-2013, 10:38 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by TCsmyth View Post
These concepts about "consensus" and "reaching" confuses me...

I talked to a buddy out west and he was raving that the Jets got the "steal" of the draft. He said that Morrissey is the type of player that other teams actually key and game-plan on, and that he has a super unique blend of high end skill, smarts and physical intensity (says keep your head on a swivel!).

After watching some clips, wow. That last clip of video posted here where he lays out 3 hits and then a scrap with his team down 2 goals was clearly calculated on his part to try and get the Raiders going.

THIS is exactly the type of guys I hope Chevy is looking for. Scholastically smart, intense, competitive = character. If we are worried about consensus, then lets fire all scouts buy a draft preview book, and pick the next guy on the list.
Yea I agree and am sporting a new Avy in protest

I admit I had to watch the clips, read the scouting reports, and reach out to some friends in PA but this looks to be a solid pick if you like talented prospects.

ISS (international Scouting Services) compiles an interesting list of Best and Worst of the 2013 draft class and break it out into categories and here are a few highlights. Best skater in the draft 1. Mackinnon 2. Jones 3. Morrissey....Offense from the Blue line 1. Jones 2. Morrissey

I think that because of the Scheif pick our fans are hyper sensitive. Just because TSN had Morrissey late 1st round and said it was a reach does not make is so and allot of people over reacted. Who exactly are the prospects that were sooooo much better than Morrissey at 13.... Erne, Zykov, Lazar, Gauthier, Zadorov, Wennberg, Pulock, Mantha, Shinkaruk, Rychel, Hagg, Burakowsky, Mueller, Morin, etc. Sorry but Morrissey is in that cluster on most of the consensus lists.

I like Wennberg and Zykov but there is no way I can sit here and tell you Wennberg would have been a better pick than Morrissey because Josh is certainly as talented from what I have seen.

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07-02-2013, 10:45 AM
  #268
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Yea I agree and am sporting a new Avy in protest

I admit I had to watch the clips, read the scouting reports, and reach out to some friends in PA but this looks to be a solid pick if you like talented prospects.

ISS (international Scouting Services) compiles an interesting list of Best and Worst of the 2013 draft class and break it out into categories and here are a few highlights. Best skater in the draft 1. Mackinnon 2. Jones 3. Morrissey....Offense from the Blue line 1. Jones 2. Morrissey

I think that because of the Scheif pick our fans are hyper sensitive. Just because TSN had Morrissey late 1st round and said it was a reach does not make is so and allot of people over reacted. Who exactly are the prospects that were sooooo much better than Morrissey at 13.... Erne, Zykov, Lazar, Gauthier, Zadorov, Wennberg, Pulock, Mantha, Shinkaruk, Rychel, Hagg, Burakowsky, Mueller, Morin, etc. Sorry but Morrissey is in that cluster on most of the consensus lists.

I like Wennberg and Zykov but there is no way I can sit here and tell you Wennberg would have been a better pick than Morrissey because Josh is certainly as talented from what I have seen.
Excellent post, ps241. Love hearing that info from ISS too on Morrissey. This pick looks like it could be a winner, in my opinion, and given the crapshoot drafting is, I am more than happy with that. I also think you nailed in in who were the other prospects so much better at the 13 spot?

I was 'meh' on this pick when it was made, but I am admittedly not a scout nor a prospect expert. I am a long time OHL season ticket holder, and feel I do have a good grasp on kids in the junior game when I watch them, but I did not know zip about Morrissey as he is from the WHL. After reading and hearing about Morrissey, and even looking back on the Morrissey threads on the main prospects board from throughout the year, all things considered right now I am very happy.

People get far too caught up in draft rankings, lists, the numbers, etc. I do believe they can mean something, but they're far from the be all, end all. Given everything we know about Morrissey right now, to me it looks like a very solid draft selection.

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07-02-2013, 11:04 AM
  #269
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WEll its been quite the tuesday morning after being the dark about the draft all weekend.


All i want to say is, god damn am I happy i didn't watch the first round. At this point, i'm ok with the pick. When i saw morrissey as our pick (without any other info) i was a little deflated. AFter looking at the first round as whole, not so much.


1) all the players I was "really into" were gone (RR, DOMI, etc)

2)The only player i would have wanted more then morrisey was Shinkaruk, and he ended up falling allt he way to 24, making me feel much less concerned about it and liking that we didn't take him all the better.

3) I love the rest of our draft. PRetty much all of our picks out of the first i'm really into. Wouldn't have minded seeing anovther forward or two in there but i really like the rest of our draft.

and to those dramatically maoning about this pick (it might not be a pick/move to "get excited about" but it's par for the course).

1) Outside of the top 7 this draft was all over the place. we are hardly the only team to "reacH" so its obvious there was very little consensus. IF your going to get upset every year this team doesn't pick the "BPA according to redline/button/etc" then you should probably tune out as were obviously not afraid to stick to "our guy". Schiefele and Trouba look fine (trouba especially) so i'm much more likely to give chevy the benefit of the doubt at this point.


2) 2-4 years to make it to the show? very VERY few draftees taken between 10-30 make it to the NHL within two years. like, 1-2 per year.

3) the trading down debate... well sure it would have been nice to see that happen, but it takes two to tango. Also- important to note here witht he complete off the boardness of the rest of this first round- how could you be sure at all that any player you wanted would be available? at 13 ova there is no "BPA", and based off where some players went, apparently about 25 NHL gm's didn't pick up the TSN draft list. And if the response is "well then you jsut take your next guy" well then why not jsut take your next guy up at 13? or why not just trade all the way back to 30 and take whatevers available?




Essentially: i'm a little dsisapointed we didn't take a forward, but thso ecomplaining about the "Value" of taking morissey at 13 seem to either have A) unrealistic expectations or B) are never going to be happy anytime we stray even slightly from third party scouting mags.

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07-02-2013, 11:06 AM
  #270
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Use whatever standard you wish to choose.

Just so we're clear, I made no such statement and was conversely simply replying to your own claim that no one in the hockey world ranked Morrissey anywhere near where he was selected. Holden already pointed out to you that other scouting services had him ranked highly, and the player himself in fact disclosed in his interviews (posted on the Jets website) that his agent suggested to him that he would likely be chosen at somewhere between #10 and #20, so it seems more than one person out there disagrees with your assessment of his draft value.
I like how you make loose claims like "other scouting services had him ranked highly" and then its left to the rest of us to either accept what you've written as fact or figure out what highly means. What does "highly" mean relative to the list, Gump?

I don't care what his agent or him mom says about his draft value. I did a quick search of the pre-draft talk, and low and behold he's not on your radar or anyone else's on HF Jets as potential picks for #13. After the pick is made, however, we find a plethora of experts and Chevy defenders.

SourceRank
ESPN26
TSN28
The Hockey News17
The Hockey Guys17
CBS Sports25
SportsNet22
Hockey Prospect18
Craig Button16
Future Considerations15
ISS21
McKeen's Hockey18
Corey Pronman20
AVG20.25
MEDIAN19

ps - thanks to the poster who left this.

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07-02-2013, 11:23 AM
  #271
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Chevy said he wanted to move up to #12. But we're assuming that he wanted Domi, maybe he thought they were going to pick Morrissey?

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07-02-2013, 11:29 AM
  #272
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Feeling better about this pick a few days later. He seems like he could be a pretty dynamic player. I think we learned a few things about the Jets organization that could be great down the road..

1. Chevy has the stones to make a unpopular choice.

2. He is not wedded to size at the expense of skill.

3. He always had his eye on the long term...he is in this context a man of his word.

None of these factors may equal Schiefle and Morrisey being better players, the jury will be out for quite awhile now. Overall I do love that Chevy has patience.

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07-02-2013, 11:29 AM
  #273
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I like how you make loose claims like "other scouting services had him ranked highly" and then its left to the rest of us to either accept what you've written as fact or figure out what highly means. What does "highly" mean relative to the list, Gump?

I don't care what his agent or him mom says about his draft value. I did a quick search of the pre-draft talk, and low and behold he's not on your radar or anyone else's on HF Jets as potential picks for #13. After the pick is made, however, we find a plethora of experts and Chevy defenders.

SourceRank
ESPN26
TSN28
The Hockey News17
The Hockey Guys17
CBS Sports25
SportsNet22
Hockey Prospect18
Craig Button16
Future Considerations15
ISS21
McKeen's Hockey18
Corey Pronman20
AVG20.25
MEDIAN19

ps - thanks to the poster who left this.
Don't forget to add Chevy ranking him at 13, the only "expert" employed by an NHL team to evaluate talent from that list.

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07-02-2013, 11:46 AM
  #274
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Exactly. If Morrisey is #1 on their board, why risk trading down for some extra picks when your guy is sitting right there for the taking?
Agreed. If it's safe to "trade down" a couple of spots because at this stage there are a lot of equivalent-value players anyway, then why would you expect anyone to be there to "trade up"? Surely they'd realize the same thing and be unwilling to give away a free player to you in order to make a move up that would be unlikely to produce a meaningful benefit for them. Also, there isn't exactly a huge amount of time to negotiate these deals, many of which could involve unanticipated situations that couldn't have been pre-negotiated. That may be why hardly any such deals happened.

The Jets' draft is being ranked on these boards and elsewhere as one of the most successful of any team (for a team that doesn't usually rate a lot of attention).

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07-02-2013, 11:47 AM
  #275
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Don't forget to add Chevy ranking him at 13, the only "expert" employed by an NHL team to evaluate talent from that list.
Couldn't be more wrong. Do you really think that these lists are compiled by scouts who are independent of NHL payrolls? The only one on that list who isn't on an NHL payroll that I'm aware of is Craig Button.

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