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Simmons - Leafs' plan is developing

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Old
06-07-2005, 01:32 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Hasek, Domenic. Ever heard of him?
No. I've heard of Dominik Hasek though.

He's shown that he's more unreliable than Belfour- in regards to health and otherwise. And Hasek hasn't played regularly since 2001-2002.

So many people like to question Toronto's goaltending but maybe they should focus their attention on Ottawa.

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06-07-2005, 02:07 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by PepNCheese
If that team made the playoffs(I would be assuming Eddie continues to play well, obviously), it would be as a 7th or 8th seed.

Fortunately, we won't have to actually contemplate lineups where Kyle Wellwood is the second line centre, Steen is suddenly playing on the top line, and Colin Murphy, a player who just made the AHL, is suddenly taking regular shifts for the Maple Leafs. It just won't happen.

I could see Stajan possibly being used on one of the top two lines, but probably not this year. I expect his ice to end up around 15 minutes per game for this season, basically filling the role Reichel did.
Well Pep ..

How do you interpret Fergy's comments today ??


Quote:

It is John Ferguson's intention as general manager -- no, it's almost a campaign promise -- that the Leafs will begin developing their own players, something that hasn't been seen around here since the days prior to draft-schmaft when the convenience of buying ready-made assets took precedence over waiting for the next Carlo Colaiacovo to not develop. "We may have to make some decisions that are unpopular in order to do so," Ferguson said. Translation: Look for at least one popular veteran free agent, maybe two, to not be offered contracts when hockey eventually returns.
If Leafs are going to let their own Vets go one could suggest they are not going UFA in a big way ..

Also Leetch is a Fergy deal and he would be the first IMO he would try to resign .. Which if successful would make a decent NHL defense..

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06-07-2005, 02:11 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Hasek, Domenic. Ever heard of him?
He is likely done with the NHL according to him ..He is going on 41 you know?..

Isn't he old enough to be your Grand Father ??






.


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06-07-2005, 02:27 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger

If Leafs are going to let their own Vets go one could suggest they are not going UFA in a big way ..
Define "big way".

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06-07-2005, 02:39 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Define "big way".
Well the article I quoted & posted gives a direct Fergy quote to digest.

How do you interpret that ??

If you can get Allison for $3 mil and you can resign your own players Roberts and Newy for 1.5 mil each (which Fergy just resigned last year), what is more likely?.

I would rank Leafs soon to be UFA .. on Fergy's priority list as ..

1) Leetch (Fergy's first big deal, I would guess resigning him would his top priority)
2) Newy ( Fergy has signed him twice already ..third time lucky)
3) Roberts ( Personality issues with Quinn) but 2-1 deal with Newy rumoured
4) Domi ( has built up some Good will with Owner Tannenbaum
5) Mogilny (likely to retire)

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06-07-2005, 03:03 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Well the article I quoted & posted gives a direct Fergy quote to digest.

How do you interpret that ??
I interpreted it to mean that Roberts, Mogilny, Nieuwy, Domi -- popular players that fans have grown attached to -- will be let go.

Quote:
If you can get Allison for $3 mil and you can resign your own players Roberts and Newy for 1.5 mil each (which Fergy just resigned last year), what is more likely?.
Allison, obviously.

It's not just the money. It's the roster spots. Where do you propose to put Roberts and Nieuwendyk when we have kids who have to play on the third line? Allison doesn't compete for those spots since he will be on the second line at minimum.

Quote:
I would rank Leafs soon to be UFA .. on Fergy's priority list as ..

1) Leetch (Fergy's first big deal, I would guess resigning him would his top priority)
2) Newy ( Fergy has signed him twice already ..third time lucky)
3) Roberts ( Personality issues with Quinn) but 2-1 deal with Newy rumoured
4) Domi ( has built up some Good will with Owner Tannenbaum
5) Mogilny (likely to retire)
I would say that with the possible exception of Leetch(MAYBE, maybe Nieuwendyk), JFJ's interest in those players is minimal. His lukewarm response to the question some weeks back should have provided a clue for you as to his intentions.

I would be shocked to see more than 1 of those guys back, and quite surprised if even 1 comes back. Quite simply, in each case, there are superior players available.

As for Leetch, as I've said I would have him back but not as the #1 defence. It's time to get a stud in here and there are two available this summer. It would be a critical error to pass them up for a 38-year-old Leetch.

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06-07-2005, 03:14 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
He is likely done with the NHL according to him ..He is going on 41 you know?..

Isn't he old enough to be your Grand Father ??
Hasek stated he wouldn't be back if they didn't start on time this season. All indications point to his return.

Dom's 40? Hmmm...how old is Eddie again?

PS Not my Grandfather, but I could be his older brother.

PSS Having gone into the post-season with Lalime, do you really think the worst case scenario of Prusek and Emery bothers me?


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06-07-2005, 03:27 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
I interpreted it to mean that Roberts, Mogilny, Nieuwy, Domi -- popular players that fans have grown attached to -- will be let go..
Thats fine .. but you're saying that they are going to be gone, yet will be replaced with different vets in an article all about prospect development ..

Quote:
It is John Ferguson's intention as general manager -- no, it's almost a campaign promise -- that the Leafs will begin developing their own players, something that hasn't been seen around here since the days prior to draft-schmaft when the convenience of buying ready-made assets took precedence over waiting for the next Carlo Colaiacovo to not develop


Wouldn't Allison and Lindros really be considered buying ready made assests?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
I would say that with the possible exception of Leetch(MAYBE, maybe Nieuwendyk), JFJ's interest in those players is minimal. His lukewarm response to the question some weeks back should have provided a clue for you as to his intentions.


I agree ..Leetch was his first big trade, if he lets him walk then that will constantly be brought up as Fergy's legacy .. I think he will try to get 1 more full year .. With NYR rebuiding so Toronto may be Leetch's best option ..

Newy is fantastic with the young kids and prospect development, and with Quinn coming back for two years Joe is a needed piece .. IMO to make up for what Quinn clearly lacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
As for Leetch, as I've said I would have him back but not as the #1 defence. It's time to get a stud in here and there are two available this summer. It would be a critical error to pass them up for a 38-year-old Leetch.
Well no doubt that would be good .. Scott Niedermayer is a BC boy .. He is out west here playing in local Charity golf games .. Lots of talk in the local papers here that he would like to join the Nucks with his brother as his first option .. So he really doesn't show any Toronto interest. Would like to move out west closer to friends and family.. In fact on a radio interview during the Grant Fuhr golf tourney in Pentiction (just down the road from me here) a little while back .. Someone asked him about Toronto ..and he responded does Domi still play there no better yet does he live there? Followed by a very loud laugh from everyone around ..

Pronger on the other hand has mentioned TO .. but he will come with a $5 - 6 mil ticket and that is going to take lots of roster changes likely to Nolan and McCabe as we have discussed or the most extreme replacing Eddie . With $27.5 mil already committed a stud Dman will be tough to address this year.. IMO .

Pronger is going to have to pull a Kariya to make it easy on the Leafs.

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06-07-2005, 03:53 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
Yup ..

That is because any team with Eddie Belfour as its goalie always has a better then average chance to make the playoffs based on his play ..
We shall see who the best Goaltender is now that the equipment is reduced, something like guys who have to get off steriods. Quickness and athletic ability will come in to play now, positioning will be less a factor.

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06-07-2005, 04:07 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappy
We shall see who the best Goaltender is now that the equipment is reduced, something like guys who have to get off steriods. Quickness and athletic ability will come in to play now, positioning will be less a factor.
I disagree. Positioning continues to be the number one factor, perhaps after mental tougness/determination. If size of equipment is relatively equal than I think all goalies will suffer equally, although the gap between weaker and stronger goalies may widen.

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06-07-2005, 04:16 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappy
We shall see who the best Goaltender is now that the equipment is reduced, something like guys who have to get off steriods. Quickness and athletic ability will come in to play now, positioning will be less a factor.
I don't think BIG equipment is Eddie's strongest asset .. While he is not a spring chicken, there isn't anyone on the UFA or soon to be UFA that I think is a step up on Eddie ..

So you got to stay with what brought you to the dance .. IMO ..

The other strategy is strong defense and a younger goalie but protected by the system and defense in front of him.

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06-07-2005, 04:27 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Thats fine .. but you're saying that they are going to be gone, yet will be replaced with different vets in an article all about prospect development ..

Wouldn't Allison and Lindros really be considered buying ready made assests?

[/i]
I clearly explained how the two are not in conflict in the case of this offseason and this roster.

Quote:
Well no doubt that would be good .. Scott Niedermayer is a BC boy .. He is out west here playing in local Charity golf games .. Lots of talk in the local papers here that he would like to join the Nucks with his brother as his first option .. So he really doesn't show any Toronto interest. Would like to move out west closer to friends and family.. In fact on a radio interview during the Grant Fuhr golf tourney in Pentiction (just down the road from me here) a little while back .. Someone asked him about Toronto ..and he responded does Domi still play there no better yet does he live there? Followed by a very loud laugh from everyone around ..
I don't see Vancouver signing him, actually.

Quote:
Pronger on the other hand has mentioned TO .. but he will come with a $5 - 6 mil ticket and that is going to take lots of roster changes likely to Nolan and McCabe as we have discussed or the most extreme replacing Eddie . With $27.5 mil already committed a stud Dman will be tough to address this year.. IMO .

Pronger is going to have to pull a Kariya to make it easy on the Leafs.
How is it tough to address? You get rid of McCabe.

How many offseasons are there where 2 of the league's top 5 defencemen are unrestricted free agents? These are building-block players that are almost impossible to get other than the draft or costly trades. If they were 35-37 years old I'd say don't bother, but they still have a lot of years left.

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06-07-2005, 04:45 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
I clearly explained how the two are not in conflict in the case of this offseason and this roster..
Well its all guess work on our part it will be interesting to see what Fergy does .. The first chance he had to shape the team in his own image he resigned Eddie, Gary, Joe, Klee .. So precedence has been set and now the cap itself prohibits all to be resigned ..


Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
I don't see Vancouver signing him, actually. ..
He said west coast .. Anaheim as a package deal with his brother was also mentioned..



Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
How is it tough to address? You get rid of McCabe...
Easier said then done .. To who ?? With a 150-200 UFA on the market how easy will it be to trade him at his value .. Does Fergy even want to do that is the big question?? .. He gave him a 2-year deal going into the lockout at $4.45 and $4.75 mil (without rollback). Fergy knew Pronger would be on the market just like you and I ..Why not give McCabe a 1 year deal then and trading him as a RFA would be easier then with a big ticket involved .. I am suggesting that if Pronger was an option then Fergy could have played his cards much differently planning for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
How many offseasons are there where 2 of the league's top 5 defencemen are unrestricted free agents? These are building-block players that are almost impossible to get other than the draft or costly trades. If they were 35-37 years old I'd say don't bother, but they still have a lot of years left.
Fair enough .. But if Fergy talks to them and if there is interest in Toronto then what is preventing a Pronger taking a 1 year biggest money he can get deal from any team and becoming an UFA again the next year UFA .. Then with Nolan and McCabe and Eddie are likely done.. so he could be promised a roster spot not in 2005-06 but rather 2006-07 ?? and with the UFA age dropping that could be a possibilty ..

I see 2005-06 as bit of a write-off with all the transition chaos .. major rules changes alone might make a wait and see approach this year a better option .. If they lock themselves into more multi-year deals and then the player underforms then you have cap issues like Nolan next season as well ..


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06-07-2005, 04:53 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
I see 2005-06 as bit of a write-off with all the transition chaos .. major rules changes alone might make a wait and see approach this year a better option .. If they lock themselves into more multi-year deals and then the player underforms then you have cap issues like Nolan next season as well ..
I suppose that is the way of the NFL.

Sign Pronger for 2 million for this year, with a guaranteed second, third, fourth, and fifth year at 6 million per.

NFL teams are always scrambling to get under cap due to backloaded contracts.

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06-07-2005, 04:57 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by ULF_55
I suppose that is the way of the NFL.

Sign Pronger for 2 million for this year, with a guaranteed second, third, fourth, and fifth year at 6 million per.

NFL teams are always scrambling to get under cap due to backloaded contracts.
Thats another option ..

That also triggered the thought in years where your team has cap space you should front load a deal .. 8 mil , 4 mil, 2 mil, 2 mil

So with proper planning you could build really strong teams in the cycle .. That way is the player declines with age then the buyout hurts the cap less in the future ..

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06-07-2005, 05:07 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Well its all guess work on our part it will be interesting to see what Fergy does .. The first chance he had to shape the team in his own image he resigned Eddie, Gary, Joe, Klee .. So precedence has been set and now the cap itself prohibits all to be resigned ..
He didn't shape the team in his own image, though. That's just it. He was putting the finishing touches on Quinn's work, or so they thought. Now that team is done and this time JFJ has a lot more to do -- I think this year's team will be much more in his image for that reason.

Quote:
Easier said then done .. To who ?? With a 150-200 UFA on the market how easy will it be to trade him at his value ..
He's got good value. As for who would take him, well, any team that needs a top-3, offensive defenceman with a point shot, but can't attract the big-name players that are as good as or better than McCabe in that capacity.

Quote:
I am suggesting that if Pronger was an option then Fergy could have played his cards much differently planning for it.
There was no way to predict if Pronger would be an option or not. Far too many variables, like whether there would be a season.

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06-07-2005, 05:11 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
There was no way to predict if Pronger would be an option or not. Far too many variables, like whether there would be a season.
JFj having a personal relationship with Pronger (assuming) offers a backloaded deal, and reworks McCabe's and Sundin's contracts, knowing Eddie and Owen are short term and will be replaced with cheaper prospects come 2006-2007 season.

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06-07-2005, 05:24 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by PepNCheese
He's got good value. As for who would take him, well, any team that needs a top-3, offensive defenceman with a point shot, but can't attract the big-name players that are as good as or better than McCabe in that capacity..
How do we know McCabe does not have a no trade clause .. That is common practice in TO ..

Also in regards to Fergy .. He has resigned Quinn, so why give the old coach a new team rather then the team the coach wants or built himself ??

I hope he finally shows his stuff, otherwise I might as well be the GM if all you every do is resign the former players ..

However that is easier said then done when those players are Gary, Joe and Eddie..

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06-07-2005, 05:50 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
How do we know McCabe does not have a no trade clause .. That is common practice in TO ..
It's a CBA thing, players under UFA age could not have no trade clauses.

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06-07-2005, 05:52 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
How do we know McCabe does not have a no trade clause .. That is common practice in TO ..
Why do you say its common practice? I thought contracts were publicly accessible enough so that we would know about any no-trade clauses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Also in regards to Fergy .. He has resigned Quinn, so why give the old coach a new team rather then the team the coach wants or built himself ??
Their attitude last year was to re-assemble the team and give them one more kick at the can. They had to act as if there might be a season, and for last season I think that was a reasonable strategy. We may see a slightly new strategy this season- more of a hybrid between old and new?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
I hope he finally shows his stuff, otherwise I might as well be the GM if all you every do is resign the former players ..
Not always so easy to re-sign players, but you're right- we haven't seen his genius yet. Should be interesting to watch for a few years

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
However that is easier said then done when those players are Gary, Joe and Eddie..
Exactly. As has been said elsewhere, good old players are still good players. I won't be upset at all if all three are back again.

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06-07-2005, 06:53 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by timlap
Exactly. As has been said elsewhere, good old players are still good players. I won't be upset at all if all three are back again.
Yes if they can only get this CBA signed, hockey back on the ice and then we can see what Fergy will do ..

Will be fun to guess and plan ourselves once all the CBA facts are out and we know the details.

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06-07-2005, 06:58 PM
  #47
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It's one thing to say your going to do it but it's a whole other thing to actually do it. Especially in Toronto were alot of fans are impatient.The media also is very quick to write players off. The pressure will be on Ferguson to be patient with whatever younger players he brings in.

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06-07-2005, 07:08 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
How do we know McCabe does not have a no trade clause .. That is common practice in TO ..
Because we know he doesn't have one.

Quote:
Also in regards to Fergy .. He has resigned Quinn, so why give the old coach a new team rather then the team the coach wants or built himself ??
I am not entirely sure if that was a totally autonomous decision. It may have been, seeing as there are no great coaches available right now.

But on the other hand, they may be keeping Quinn around for a couple of years to hedge their bets in case things don't go well with JFJ. Or, the decision to demote Quinn wasn't unanimous, and the compromise was that he stay on as coach. Or, Quinn really was telling the truth when he said it was always the plan to hire a GM.

The possibilities are legion at MLSE, let's face it.

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06-08-2005, 08:59 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by timlap
Why do you say its common practice? I thought contracts were publicly accessible enough so that we would know about any no-trade clauses.
Contracts were made public by the NHLPA so they could drive up players saleries, and for no other reason than that
...similar to collusion if you think about it, but since it's the players, it's okay and not price fixing.

...don't mind me, I just can't stand the NHLPA, since they are the real cause of all that is going on right now.

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06-08-2005, 09:12 AM
  #50
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I'm sorry, wasn't there just a Simmons article about how the Leafs were going to be huge buyers on the UFA market (Niedermayer, Allison, Lindros, Kariya, etc.) and now all of a sudden the Leafs are going to go with youth? Did Simmons finally look at the situation and realize the Leafs have zero room to add high-priced "stars"?

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