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Old
07-11-2013, 08:53 AM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
the list itself is actually pretty impressive too:

guys that were drafted that put up 50 goals in the CHL the first year they were draft eligible since 2001-2002(there may have been one or two that put up 50 the first year they were eligible and then weren't drafted although that sounds unlikely it isn't something I checked):

Anthony Mantha
Jeff Skinner
John Tavares
Steven Stamkos
Patrick Kane
Sidney Crosby
Joffrey Lupul
That's one heckuva group to be a part of... No wonder Mantha thinks he has a shot to make the Wings out of camp....

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07-11-2013, 10:50 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
That's one heckuva group to be a part of... No wonder Mantha thinks he has a shot to make the Wings out of camp....
I like Mantha, I wasn't huge on him during draft prep but I like his scoring touch. He scored 50 points in his rookie season and I imagine if they give him another year in the Q he should be able to put up 100+ unless he plays in the junior worlds.

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07-11-2013, 11:05 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
That's one heckuva group to be a part of... No wonder Mantha thinks he has a shot to make the Wings out of camp....
Also ... Mantha, Anthony: Height 6’3.5″ Weight 197.8 lbs


Draft Combine Height and Weight Adjusted


A big guy that can snipe? Yes, please...

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07-11-2013, 12:04 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by LastWordArmy View Post
Also ... Mantha, Anthony: Height 6’3.5″ Weight 197.8 lbs


Draft Combine Height and Weight Adjusted


A big guy that can snipe? Yes, please...
He's also 18, he will most likely get bigger. At least more weight and muscle.

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07-11-2013, 12:35 PM
  #180
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I was really impressed about Mantha's reach. His arms were like 2 metres long. Add a long stick in those hands. When he learns to protect the puck with that reach and use body to protect the puck, it will be impossible to make any kind of retrieval against him. Chara will be off the league, when Mantha hits in.

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07-11-2013, 12:44 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by LastWordArmy View Post
Also ... Mantha, Anthony: Height 6’3.5″ Weight 197.8 lbs


Draft Combine Height and Weight Adjusted


A big guy that can snipe? Yes, please...

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07-11-2013, 02:57 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
the list itself is actually pretty impressive too:

guys that were drafted that put up 50 goals in the CHL the first year they were draft eligible since 2001-2002(there may have been one or two that put up 50 the first year they were eligible and then weren't drafted although that sounds unlikely it isn't something I checked):

Anthony Mantha
Jeff Skinner
John Tavares
Steven Stamkos
Patrick Kane
Sidney Crosby
Joffrey Lupul
interesting! what source are you using?

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07-11-2013, 03:34 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by stu the grim reaper View Post
interesting! what source are you using?
manually looked through the league leaders of the 3 CHL leagues for those years on hockeydb and saw which ones met those criteria

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07-11-2013, 05:28 PM
  #184
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I hope we have the next Cory Perry on our hands. Didn't Perry have a lot of the same criticisms in his draft year?

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07-11-2013, 05:29 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
I hope we have the next Cory Perry on our hands. Didn't Perry have a lot of the same criticisms in his draft year?
I hope he's less of a ****** than Corey Perry.

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07-11-2013, 05:30 PM
  #186
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I hope we have the next Cory Perry on our hands. Didn't Perry have a lot of the same criticisms in his draft year?
Don't know about Perry but Getzlaf did.

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07-11-2013, 05:32 PM
  #187
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The thing with Perry was that he was bad skater. Mantha certainly isn't.

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07-11-2013, 05:32 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Don't know about Perry but Getzlaf did.
That works too.

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07-11-2013, 05:34 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Don't know about Perry but Getzlaf did.
I remember Getzlaf having somewhat similar issues, but apparently the one that really contributed to his draft stock were the "maturity issues." Namely that his teammates in Calgary disliked him because he was a huge jerk.

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07-11-2013, 05:37 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
I remember Getzlaf having somewhat similar issues, but apparently the one that really contributed to his draft stock were the "maturity issues." Namely that his teammates in Calgary disliked him because he was a huge jerk.
Nobody can agitate folks like Tyler Bertuzzi.

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07-11-2013, 06:44 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
I remember Getzlaf having somewhat similar issues, but apparently the one that really contributed to his draft stock were the "maturity issues." Namely that his teammates in Calgary disliked him because he was a huge jerk.
And he still has maturity issues


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07-11-2013, 08:15 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
So... to sum up Franzen's Red Wing career

Early Career 36 goals 229 games - 12.9 goals per 82 games
Beastmode til April 11 Contract -- 62 goals in 101 games, 50.3 goals per 82 games
Franzen Floater mode - 106 goals in 285 games - 30.4 goals per 82 games
Those numbers are pretty skewed.

If you're going to break down a guys career in 3 parts you should probably break them down evenly, rather than choosing the cut off point for greatest effect.

If you break his #'s down into even 205 game segments they look like this.

Early Career (First 205 games) 12.8 Goals per 82 games
Middle 205 games 36.4 Goals per 82 games
Last 205 games 28.4 goals per 82 games.

His numbers have fallen a bit from his middle 205 games but not drastically and not past an acceptable level. If they continue to fall this next season it might be time to think about buying him out, but I still don't think the guy deserves all the criticism he gets around here.

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07-11-2013, 08:22 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
I hope he's less of a ****** than Corey Perry.
What comes to Corey Perry, he has scored 220 goals in 574 career games. 31.4 goals per 82 games.

Would you pay rather 8.6 million for a 31.4 goal scorer (like Corey Perry)

or

3.9 million for a 27.2 goal scorer (like Johan Franzen) ?

Franzen scores 87% of Corey Perry's scoring and earns over 54% less.

Perspective does nice things.

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07-11-2013, 08:23 PM
  #194
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trade him to florida so he can be mantha the pantha

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07-11-2013, 08:23 PM
  #195
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*leaves room*

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07-11-2013, 08:27 PM
  #196
Henkka
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Originally Posted by braille View Post
trade him to florida so he can be mantha the pantha
Second best quote of the day.

The best (so far) has been the "Volchenkov = Dan Cleary of defencemen".

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07-12-2013, 12:32 AM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
the list itself is actually pretty impressive too:

guys that were drafted that put up 50 goals in the CHL the first year they were draft eligible since 2001-2002(there may have been one or two that put up 50 the first year they were eligible and then weren't drafted although that sounds unlikely it isn't something I checked):

Anthony Mantha
Jeff Skinner
John Tavares
Steven Stamkos
Patrick Kane
Sidney Crosby
Joffrey Lupul
CHLers who have scored 50g at or before age 18 since 2000:


tavares
patrick kane
stamkos
jeff skinner
christian thomas
alexandre picard-hooper
crosby
roussin ---- (crosby's linemate)
parenteau
yanick lehoux
vermette
ty rattie
eric fehr
lupul
brendl

several more were on pace for 50, but missed games.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Franzen signed on April 11, 2009.

At the end of 2008, Franzen scored 15 goals in 16 games.
Then in the 08 playoffs, Franzen scored 13 goals in 16 games
Then in 2009, until April 10, he scored 34 goals in 69 games.

During this stretch, Franzen scored 62 goals in 101 games
That's a 50 goal pace.

Now, if you want to know some Wings fans thought it was OK to sign mule instead of Hossa -- Before Hossa ever played a playoff game in Detroit -- that's why.

Some Detroit fans thought they'd just found a giant powerforward who could scored at a 40 to 50 goal pace.

Was some of Franzen's streak just luck? Sure.
But Franzen hasn't approached the eyepopping goal scoring ability he showed.

People will point to his caphit, and say, but a 28 goal guy is fine for $4m ayear.
But this wasn't a 5 year contract. This was a lifetime contract.

We were securing him for life based on 100 games or so.

I think questioning Franzen's effort is fair. We questioned Flip's effort quite a bit, and that was deserved, too.

Questions about Franzen's effort and commitment are legit, IMO.

He scored at a 50 goal pace for 101 games.
285 106
Since then he has 106 goals in 285 games -- which is a 30.4 goal pace

50.4 to 30.4

That's a huge fall.

So... to sum up Franzen's Red Wing career

Early Career 36 goals 229 games - 12.9 goals per 82 games
Beastmode til April 11 Contract -- 62 goals in 101 games, 50.3 goals per 82 games
Franzen Floater mode - 106 goals in 285 games - 30.4 goals per 82 games
franzen was also probably more physical then, and had more highlight plays.

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07-12-2013, 12:46 AM
  #198
ricky0034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
CHLers who have scored 50g at or before age 18 since 2000:


tavares
patrick kane
stamkos
jeff skinner


Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
christian thomas
hit 50 the year after he was drafted not in his draft year


Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
alexandre picard-hooper
never drafted

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
crosby

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
roussin ---- (crosby's linemate)
hit 50 the year after he was drafted not in his draft year

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
parenteau
hit 50 the year after he was drafted not in his draft year

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
yanick lehoux
hit 50 the year after he was drafted not in his draft year


Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
vermette
hit 50 the year after he was drafted not in his draft year

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
ty rattie
hit 50 the year after he was drafted not in his draft year

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
eric fehr
hit 50 the year after he was drafted not in his draft year

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
lupul

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
brendl
sure,was a few years before the time period I was using though

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07-12-2013, 03:32 PM
  #199
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Quote:
And though 15.2% is on the high side, it's not as outlandish as I was expecting, and is actually a slight regression from the 16.1% shooting percentage he had in 2011-12 when he scored just twenty-four goals. No, Mantha's big bump is mostly the result of an increase in shots. In 2011-12, Mantha had just 2.22 shots per game, but in 2012-13 he was able to push that number all the way up to 4.76 shots per game, more than doubling his previous output. In fact, Mantha's shot rate is better than either of the two top prospects in the draft, Nathan MacKinnon (4.62) and Jonathan Drouin (3.52). So even if Mantha was a little bit lucky, it really is just a little, and his shot rate alone is reason for optimism.

His 0.72 adjusted goals per game is actually 21st among all forwards drafted out of the CHL over the last thirty years, and the guys above him are mostly pretty good company:
http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/17...ha-comparables

Some graphs there too.

I know this is just stats scouting but personally I'm a lot more high on Mantha than I was before the draft or when he was drafted.

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07-14-2013, 01:27 AM
  #200
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I would have personally liked to see the Wings take Mike McCarron with their first rounder, but Mantha does have an intriguing skill package.

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