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Sabres acquire Jamie McBain and 2nd Rounder (JT Compher) from Canes for Andrej Sekera

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07-01-2013, 10:46 AM
  #251
Chainshot
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Originally Posted by SackTastic View Post
Yes, Sekera is better than McBain, but Sekera clearly isn't someone that they planned on rebuilding the team around, so they got a crappier plug and a pick for a good prospect.

Why there's so much rage about this, I don't know.
The indignation seems to be this thought that there was a 5+McBain for JUST 8+Sekera combined with people wanting a forward specifically. Conversation subsiquently seems to indicate the deal up to #5 included more than JUST Sekera and 8. Eh. I like the Compher-Hurley-Bailey trio, love Ristolainen and am willing to wait on how bad the the rebuild might be to get to the next level.

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07-01-2013, 10:52 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I don't have a problem with the trade in isolation. Regier is obviously thinking 5 years down the road, seeing Sekera gone when we start to get in position to contend again, and saying, I can move this guy. McBain is a Rochester player, but Compher may be a late first rounder most years. Good value.

What I have a problem with is the decision to essentially pass on getting #5 for #8 and #35.

Maybe it means we do a more thorough rebuild by fully building out the back end before adding elite forwards. But it does definitely set us back a year on adding those elite forwards, and means we have to get our full tank on over the next two years, start thinking in terms of 2019 as the beginning of our window.

In all, if he actually commits to that full tank, it's bold and I like it. But I'm going to have to see this move in the context of how he plays his cards the next year or two, i.e., whether or not he goes for broke to get a franchise forward in the next two years.
If you take Devine at his word it sounded like Carolina wanted #38 in that trade up to #5 as well.

That plus the fact that it sounded like they had already made the decision to trade #38 and #52 to move up and get Compher is what got Darcy to pull the trigger when #35 fell into their laps. For them it boiled down to: Compher + Sekera against Compher + Bailey + Hurley.

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07-01-2013, 10:57 AM
  #253
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My biggest issue with this trade is my uncontrollable urge to talk like the Simpson's character McBain every time I hear his name. Not a big deal when its a handful of games -vs- the Canes. But every night?

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07-01-2013, 10:58 AM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
The indignation seems to be this thought that there was a 5+McBain for JUST 8+Sekera combined with people wanting a forward specifically. Conversation subsiquently seems to indicate the deal up to #5 included more than JUST Sekera and 8. Eh. I like the Compher-Hurley-Bailey trio, love Ristolainen and am willing to wait on how bad the the rebuild might be to get to the next level.
Yeah, I caught all that. The complaints about that make me chuckle too. Who knows what was actually discussed or proposed? Maybe there was something even better that was being worked on that doing one deal torpedoed the other, we have no idea.

We CAN be sure these situations and conversations can be fluid, and things can change. I think we'd all be better off to worry about what DOES happen as opposed to what COULD have happened based on incomplete information.

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07-01-2013, 10:59 AM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
My biggest issue with this trade is my uncontrollable urge to talk like the Simpson's character McBain every time I hear his name. Not a big deal when its a handful of games -vs- the Canes. But every night?
The McBain meme is longstanding on the Canes board. Everyone crank out your best Ahhnold impersonations!

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07-01-2013, 12:18 PM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
My biggest issue with this trade is my uncontrollable urge to talk like the Simpson's character McBain every time I hear his name. Not a big deal when its a handful of games -vs- the Canes. But every night?
I'm pretty sure it will be funny every time. I don't think I'll stop even if it isn't.

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07-01-2013, 12:46 PM
  #257
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as i think - they started thinking about trading Sekera after Zadarov

in the initial offer they didn´t know they would get Zadarov so they wanted more. After getting Zadarov it was easier to trade Sekera.

If Darcy made 5+McBain for 8+Sekera and drafted Fucale most here would be furious. After getting two big, mean defencemen it was easier to let Sekera go

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07-01-2013, 01:12 PM
  #258
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So it seems like the assets that would have eventually come to be in the Sekera deals would have been --- A. Lindholm, (possibly McBain) vs. B. Ristolainen, Compher, McBain, and possibly Hurley

The second haul option B is probably the better deal to make, especially for the rebuild and after landing Zadorov.

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07-01-2013, 01:14 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by SackTastic View Post
Why there's so much rage about this, I don't know.
It ended the possibility of signing a bunch of vets and developing the guys we have in limited roles behind established players. Trials by fire for everybody.

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07-01-2013, 01:28 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
It ended the possibility of signing a bunch of vets and developing the guys we have in limited roles behind established players. Trials by fire for everybody.
How did it end our ability to still do that?

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07-01-2013, 01:37 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
How did it end our ability to still do that?
It didn't end our ability, that was a bad word choice on my part.

However, it absolutely made the team worse at the NHL level and strongly suggested that Buffalo is taking the high-risk, high-reward, "give the kids a bunch of responsibility and see how it goes, we'll either make the playoffs or pick Ekblad" route, rather than pairing down Myers/Hodgson/Ennis' responsibilities from last year.

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07-01-2013, 01:44 PM
  #262
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but trading Sekera for the 5th would have done that too but without RR and NZ

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07-01-2013, 01:52 PM
  #263
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To me this looks like a classic trade of Strength for trying to fill a weakness. They saw an opportunity to trade off from a position of strength, Puck moving Defensemen, and traded it to fill a weakness at forward. Now if you think about who they could've moved instead:

Ehroff - PMD - Long contract best defenseman last year
Myers - PMD - Long contract with massive upside; As much as a alot of people want to write him off, Darcy has stated hes has faith he can get back to a higher level of play
Sekera - PMD - Someone on a Bridge contract who most likely will command bigger money when his contract is up by the time the kids will be developed and hopefully we see the potential of this team start to show
Weber - Stay at Home - Just signed to an extension that has quality leadership traits, fits the mold Darcy is building his team around.
Pysyk - Defensive Defenseman - Young kid who showed much promise last season. Seems Darcy wants to take care of his end first then go forward. In this case a defensive defenseman like Pysyk who has a great first pass is more valuable than a guy who would carry it out instead.
Mcnabb - Defensive defenseman - Young bruising defenseman who Darcy still thinks can be an impactful player
McCabe- Defensive Defenseman - Young kid who follows in the same mold as Pysyk not sure if Darcy felt it was worth trading a young kid like McCabe for another early 2nd rounder.

I'm not sure anybody else would've been on Carolina's radar.

I think Sekera being asked for by Rutherford earlier, pretty much tells you that he didn't really want anybody else. It was an easy move for Darcy to make, You have a plethora of defensemen and you added two more in the 1st round, and you are trying to improve your depth up front.

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07-01-2013, 02:01 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by unte93 View Post
but trading Sekera for the 5th would have done that too but without RR and NZ
Without NZ? How, unless that's who the Hurricanes had at 8?

Trading up for Monahan/Lindholm means they viewed one of them as that "championship player" they brought up in the end of season presser, and doesn't really belie their opinions about next season because they could either tank around that guy or start building immediately around him.

Trading Sekera for a reclamation project and a high-second-billed-as-a-late-first means they're fine with waiting a few years to reap the benefits of this trade and making themselves worse in the process for the short term.

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07-01-2013, 02:15 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Without NZ? How, unless that's who the Hurricanes had at 8?

Trading up for Monahan/Lindholm means they viewed one of them as that "championship player" they brought up in the end of season presser, and doesn't really belie their opinions about next season because they could either tank around that guy or start building immediately around him.

Trading Sekera for a reclamation project and a high-second-billed-as-a-late-first means they're fine with waiting a few years to reap the benefits of this trade and making themselves worse in the process for the short term.
What makes you think they don't think that way about Risto?

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07-01-2013, 03:01 PM
  #266
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I don't mind this trade, can't complain at all. I'll miss Sekera but I'm intrigued by McBain, and while Sekera was a solid top 4 D he wan't really progressing and did have consistency issues. This proves Darcy is willing to make bold moves to get what he wants, something I like. McBain has a chance to bounce back but this is really about TJ.

Positive imho. Nice Darcy.

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07-01-2013, 03:03 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Without NZ? How, unless that's who the Hurricanes had at 8?
If the trade was made, there is no guarantee Hurricanes would pick RR at 8. If Hurricanes had picked a different player than RR at 8, the rest of the draft would have been different including who is still available at 16.

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07-01-2013, 03:43 PM
  #268
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Why trade Sekera now? Why not at the deadline earlier this year, or at next year's deadline? Dumb.

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07-01-2013, 03:46 PM
  #269
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Why trade Sekera now? Why not at the deadline earlier this year, or at next year's deadline? Dumb.
They specifically wanted Compher.

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07-01-2013, 03:47 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Driftwood View Post
Why trade Sekera now? Why not at the deadline earlier this year, or at next year's deadline? Dumb.
Because they clearly wanted Compher?

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07-01-2013, 04:14 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
What makes you think they don't think that way about Risto?
Well, what they did shows that they think Risto ~ Monahan.

Trading up for Lindholm/Monahan would've meant they had a big five.

Losing a trade at the NHL level, on a player they don't have many of after standing pat at eight means they're probably not looking to be immediately competitive. Which is fine, mind you.

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07-01-2013, 04:43 PM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driftwood View Post
Why trade Sekera now? Why not at the deadline earlier this year, or at next year's deadline? Dumb.
There wasn't some line of teams clamoring at the gate to acquire him. Carolina him specifically. And we wanted JT Computer instead of a 2014 draft pick.

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07-01-2013, 05:27 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Whatever... We are totally tanking. Finally.
Yep. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Ehrhoff, Vanek, Miller, and Stafford moved by October. There might be cap floor issues though

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07-01-2013, 05:38 PM
  #274
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Yep. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Ehrhoff, Vanek, Miller, and Stafford moved by October. There might be cap floor issues though
I haven't looked at our cap situation all offseason due to how little it matters at the high end, but yeah... I think it's safe to say we would definitely not meet the cap floor if we moved all 4 of those guys. Even moving Miller + Vanek now that we've moved Sekera, I'm not sure where we'd be. Probably still above but not by much. We probably will add at least $3m in free agency, but if we moved all 4 of those guys we'd have to take on a cap dump from someone or sign an expensive free agent.

I still support signing Filppula as I think he can help anywhere in the line-up and the way he plays the game would help coach stress a little more puck possession in the system he's looking to install.

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07-01-2013, 06:06 PM
  #275
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I think after we took forwards last year, DR was focusing on defensemen in this draft all year.

I think he didn't trade up for Lindholm/Monahan because he really thinks that Grigs/Girgs/Larsson will do fine. And he was targetting defensemen. He wanted to trade two out of Risto/Nurse/Zadarov, and thats what he did.

Maybe he saw the situation last year, that sekera gets pushed around too often. He wants to become meaner, thougher and more dangerous at the blue line. Sekera had a good couple of years with us. And I loved his play for us.

But sekera is clearly not the difference between a cup.contender and a lottery team. Besides we needed room at defense for our mean guys.

I guess that McBain will most likely start in the AHL. I fully expect Ristolainen to start the season with the Sabres in the NHL. Zadarov will probably see another year in the minors.

We're now loaded at defense and at center. Who would've thought that 2-3 yeqrs ago?

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