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The Luongo Thread: Part LXMIV - Cant stop. Wont stop.

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07-03-2013, 04:04 AM
  #326
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Originally Posted by TallPoppySyndrome View Post
They had the conversation with him well beforehand, in 2009, and he did say he was on board, he even signed a peace of paper saying he would be on board in Vancouver for the rest of his life in return for a dump truck full of cash tipped into his Florida swimming pool each fall
From what I've seen, some hockey stars feel entitled to think NMC means "you have to trade me if I tell you to" in addition to "you can't trade me without my say so". Roy for example forced a trade on the Habs from which they never entirely recovered. Roberto though is not like that, he cares about being a professional and will take the high road. In any event, I think he'll get bought out next year.

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07-03-2013, 04:09 AM
  #327
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From what I've seen, some hockey stars feel entitled to think NMC means "you have to trade me if I tell you to" in addition to "you can't trade me without my say so". Roy for example forced a trade on the Habs from which they never entirely recovered. Roberto though is not like that, he cares about being a professional and will take the high road. In any event, I think he'll get bought out next year.
There is no way Canucks will buyout Luongo after trading away Schneider. It is just stupid. UNLESS Luongo does not want to play for Vancouver at all, which I highly doubt it given what kind of person he is.

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07-03-2013, 04:13 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by John McClane View Post
Haven't seen this posted yet, but it definitely deserves a watch:

Found it at PITB.


I'm anything but a Coldplay fan, but that song fit perfectly. Can't wait to see him suit up for us again.

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07-03-2013, 04:14 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by s2kboi View Post
There is no way Canucks will buyout Luongo after trading away Schneider. It is just stupid. UNLESS Luongo does not want to play for Vancouver at all, which I highly doubt it given what kind of person he is.
Calm down, I was simply speculating that after another year of being a good soldier, they might just do it as a favor to him.

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07-03-2013, 04:30 AM
  #330
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This explains rather well why retroactivity is a no-no:

http://www.slaw.ca/2010/07/27/retroactive-unjustice/
NHL is not public law.

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07-03-2013, 04:32 AM
  #331
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Maybe I have grown soft now that the dust has settled, or that video posted a page earlier - amazing btw - had a positive influence. Either way, once the shock value has dissipated and the new season is on the horizon, I see Luongo not only coming back, but doing so motivated to prove why he always should be our undisputed number one. Going on a limb here and citing him to have one of his best seasons.

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07-03-2013, 05:13 AM
  #332
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Has Roberto said anything since the trade?

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07-03-2013, 05:18 AM
  #333
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Has Roberto said anything since the trade?
Strombone ‏@strombone1 30 Jun
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#NOtradeclause
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Congrats to the @NHLDevils , can't think of a better person or player to replace a hall of famer!
That is all

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07-03-2013, 06:31 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by RainbowDeathBunny View Post
Trading Schneider does two things:

1) Frees $4 million in cap space

2) Leaves us with 1 undisputed netminder
3) Ships away a Cup contending team's number 1 goaltender for a draft pick

4) Puts Luongo in a bad situation where he really, really doesn't want to be in

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How in the hell does that trade happen without the team having the conversation with Luongo well beforehand and gain 100% certainty that he is onboard?

What a joke.
This one is very confusing to me aswell. After everything that happened in the last year or so, how can Gillis possibly do this kind of a decision without consulting Luongo first? Seems very over-confident and cocky of Gillis to think that there's zero issues from Luongo's POV and that everything would be kisses and roses after Schneider is gone, again after everything that happened in the last year.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Gillis knew exactly what he was doing in NOT telling Luongo anything beforehand. Had him called Luongo the night before the draft and said he has a deal in place to send Cory to NJ, there's a very strong chance of Luongo saying "if I were you, I wouldn't make that deal, because I really want to play somewhere else" and therefore it would be harder for Gillis to pull the trigger. Not giving Luongo the chance of doing that, and basically forcing him to play in Vancouver (what he can do at this point, really?), seems like a very ****** but at same time cold and calculated move. If I were Luongo I'd be pretty pissed though.


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07-03-2013, 07:10 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Vajakki View Post
3) Ships away a Cup contending team's number 1 goaltender for a draft pick

4) Puts Luongo in a bad situation where he really, really doesn't want to be in



This one is very confusing to me aswell. After everything that happened in the last year or so, how can Gillis possibly do this kind of a decision without consulting Luongo first? Seems very over-confident and cocky of Gillis to think that there's zero issues from Luongo's POV and that everything would be kisses and roses after Schneider is gone, again after everything that happened in the last year.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Gillis knew exactly what he was doing in NOT telling Luongo anything beforehand. Had him called Luongo the night before the draft and said he has a deal in place to send Cory to NJ, there's a very strong chance of Luongo saying "if I were you, I wouldn't make that deal, because I really want to play somewhere else" and therefore it would be harder for Gillis to pull the trigger. Not giving Luongo the chance of doing that, and basically forcing him to play in Vancouver (what he can do at this point, really?), seems like a very ****** but at same time cold and calculated move. If I were Luongo I'd be pretty pissed though.
Panther fan coming in peace...For the past year, watching the Gillis run Nucks has been like watching a reality TV show named "As the Luongo Turns." From strictly a viewer POV, not communicating with Lou prior to trading Cory is a really unexpected twist that adds more drama to the soup opera.

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07-03-2013, 07:26 AM
  #336
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The trade was ruthless, no other word for it. That said, I'm glad Gillis is able to make hard decisions like this. Hopefully we'll be better off for it.

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07-03-2013, 07:45 AM
  #337
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I think it's ludicrous you guys think a bitter net minder should be consulted on roster movements. The goalie doesn't manage the team.

I'm not worried about Luongo demanding a trade because as this whole drama has demonstrated, that already happened and they couldn't move him for free if they wanted. He has nowhere else to go and that's partially his own fault.

If he's hoping for a buyout, I don't think that happens. Ownership would rather be shot than payout that contract.

Part of me is just hoping he doesn't report to camp so we can wash ourselves of the contract and the drama forever. Target Halak or Hiller in the mean time. Won't happen, though, he'll report.


Last edited by Wisp: 07-03-2013 at 07:54 AM.
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Old
07-03-2013, 08:09 AM
  #338
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Man some of the Canucks "fans" on this board make Leafs fans look sane. Roberto signed a contract, all he can do is pull a Thomas or play. He's gonna play, he'll play as good as he always does. I mean people like to talk about regression but we had a chance to win 2 out of 2 games with Luongo in net in the first round this year, with Schneider it was 1 out of 2. Now I'm not trying to be negative about Schneider I think he'll be a great goalie for NJ, but the distance between the two right now skill wise is not the canyon all these fairweather fans are making it seem.

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07-03-2013, 08:12 AM
  #339
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Where can i get this job where my boss consults me on every move?

Players may be important and have NTCs and such but they are the employee and expected to show up and do their job.

As to why he wasn't told before (ignoring of course that indeed he was as Aquilini had reached him before anything was announced from what was reported)....well perhaps they were trying desperately to trade him up to the the time they had to make a decision to go with the Schneider trade or waive Luongo? If Luongo never thought it a possibility that they wouldn't be able to move him and he'd remain a canuck that is solely on him as it was always a possibility...if a remote one.

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07-03-2013, 08:23 AM
  #340
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The silence is deafening.

 
Old
07-03-2013, 08:29 AM
  #341
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The silence is deafening.
The offseason has just begun. there is no rush to say anything. If I were him I'd take my time, too.

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07-03-2013, 08:38 AM
  #342
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The silence is deafening.
There is no reason for him to say anything yet. Instead of saying the wrong thing while still adjusting his thinking, he is taking his time to fully come to grips with the new plan.

His tweet about Cory going to the Devils was all class and mirrored the way that most Canucks fans feel about him leaving.

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07-03-2013, 08:40 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
Where can i get this job where my boss consults me on every move?

Players may be important and have NTCs and such but they are the employee and expected to show up and do their job.

As to why he wasn't told before (ignoring of course that indeed he was as Aquilini had reached him before anything was announced from what was reported)....well perhaps they were trying desperately to trade him up to the the time they had to make a decision to go with the Schneider trade or waive Luongo? If Luongo never thought it a possibility that they wouldn't be able to move him and he'd remain a canuck that is solely on him as it was always a possibility...if a remote one.
This - unless they guaranteed him he'll get bought out, if they can't move him, which I can't imagine given Aquilini's firm stand in this matter.

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07-03-2013, 08:52 AM
  #344
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How in the hell does that trade happen without the team having the conversation with Luongo well beforehand and gain 100% certainty that he is onboard?

What a joke.

I'm not a Luongo fan, but he has to be credited for handling the last 15 months very professionally. He tried to do what was best for the team and let his desire to move on be known while Vancouver still had the chance to retain Schneider. Inexplicably, Schneider was nonetheless dealt.

Luongo has to be livid at this point. I don't see how this is going to work for more than a year or two at tops. Perhaps Aquilini deposited a racehorse's head in Luongo's bed on his trip down to Florida or something.
I'm as big of a Luongo fan as there is, but he signed that contract, requested to be moved, and then hamstrung the team by limiting who they could trade him to. He deserves at least a fair share of the blame for still being in Vancouver. I don't feel sorry for him in that sense, but I do feel bad for the guy.

That said, I'm still a big fan, and I don't think he's lost a step at all. I fully expect if he starts 60 games next year you'll see a guy that posts a 929-ish ES SV% as he always does. He'll probably end up starting in the Olympics. For the sake of everyone, maybe he'll get a chance for some Tim Thomas redemption next spring, and this will all be an interesting and humorous footnote in his HOF acceptance speech in 13 years

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07-03-2013, 09:19 AM
  #345
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
The trade was ruthless, no other word for it. That said, I'm glad Gillis is able to make hard decisions like this. Hopefully we'll be better off for it.
gillis didn't have much of a decision to make in the end...he misjudged the market, waited too long, and was forced into a schneider frenzy days before the draft when the owner told him there would be no buyout of the luongo contract

'hard decision' implies that the end result was part of a grand plan instead of the panic-filled circus of the past week

honestly gillis should just feel lucky that he ended up with horvat based on how poorly he handled it

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07-03-2013, 09:24 AM
  #346
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If it happens that the Canucks are left without any starting goaltender, with the year prior having the best tandem in the league, it will go down as one of the major mistakes in professional sports history, IMO... Bloody hell...

I'm not sure I agree Eye. It's clear that many NHL clubs have thought less and less about goaltending on the whole. I don't think the team needs the best tandem, or even elite goaltending for that matter. They just need competent to good goaltending. Then, they can put the remaining money up front.

This situation was a teaching tool. No one values goaltending. At least, not to the level it should be valued across the league. For example, if we were to compare Schneider to another good young player like Sam Gagner, one would have to believe Gagner would get more on the open market, simply by being a skater. He's not even a 1C, as most believe Schneider is a 1G, but he would garner more. That's the reality of picking, developing and moving goaltending. Given the chance, many managers would opt to go with a cheaper solution than to pay for an elite starter.

So why do we value Luongo much anymore? Why not go with the DET/CHI model and devalue it altogether? Adding more skaters to make the team better up front... It just doesn't seem like the differences in goaltending are all that significant anymore. Not to the extent of giving value for elite goalies anyways.

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07-03-2013, 09:25 AM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
gillis didn't have much of a decision to make in the end...he misjudged the market, waited too long, and was forced into a schneider frenzy days before the draft when the owner told him there would be no buyout of the luongo contract

'hard decision' implies that the end result was part of a grand plan instead of the panic-filled circus of the past week

honestly gillis should just feel lucky that he ended up with horvat based on how poorly he handled it
Thats pretty much it. His prior decisions/indecision basically meant he no longer had but a few options.

I thinking he was banking on the Aqualinis to come through and it seems like they dropped the hammer on him.

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07-03-2013, 09:27 AM
  #348
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The one thing that bugs me more than anything else is that the ****ing NHL,approved Lou's contract and then turned around and changed the rules to punish teams that signed players like this.

The rule change destroyed the market for Luongo.

Gillis tried to bluff his way through it and was left with egg on hIs face.

As Jack Tripper stated, he was lucky to be able to turn the situation into a 9th round pick.

As for Roberto, he is now officially untradeable.

So he either sucks it up and plays his heart out and proves all the doubters wrong or he craps the bed and destroys his own legacy.

The choce is pretty clear and I think it will be an easy choice for him to make.

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07-03-2013, 09:28 AM
  #349
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I'm not sure I agree Eye. It's clear that many NHL clubs have thought less and less about goaltending on the whole. I don't think the team needs the best tandem, or even elite goaltending for that matter. They just need competent to good goaltending. Then, they can put the remaining money up front.

This situation was a teaching tool. No one values goaltending. At least, not to the level it should be valued across the league. For example, if we were to compare Schneider to another good young player like Sam Gagner, one would have to believe Gagner would get more on the open market, simply by being a skater. He's not even a 1C, as most believe Schneider is a 1G, but he would garner more. That's the reality of picking, developing and moving goaltending. Given the chance, many managers would opt to go with a cheaper solution than to pay for an elite starter.

So why do we value Luongo much anymore? Why not go with the DET/CHI model and devalue it altogether? Adding more skaters to make the team better up front... It just doesn't seem like the differences in goaltending are all that significant anymore. Not to the extent of giving value for elite goalies anyways.
Agreed.

What I find totally amazing though is how little tender command in trades but how much they get thrown at them in salary.

Someone needs to do an analysis of trade value vs salary value for different position. Im totally curious.

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07-03-2013, 09:28 AM
  #350
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
gillis didn't have much of a decision to make in the end...he misjudged the market, waited too long, and was forced into a schneider frenzy days before the draft when the owner told him there would be no buyout of the luongo contract

'hard decision' implies that the end result was part of a grand plan instead of the panic-filled circus of the past week

honestly gillis should just feel lucky that he ended up with horvat based on how poorly he handled it

In fairness, the return is still the highest garnered by a 'tender... So while I agree he screwed things up, and this wasn't a decision at all (can't believe people are stating as much), he still got value.

His execution was terrible. The worst I've seen by almost any GM. It doesn't fit his profile either, which is what makes it look so poor IMO. No, this was not a "choice/decision", not an evaluation of Luongo + X vs. Schneider + Y. That's that people want to believe, but it's not the truth. This was a bungling on the level of Burke/Feaster/Tambo etc...

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