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The Luongo Thread: Part LXMIV - Cant stop. Wont stop.

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07-06-2013, 01:21 AM
  #601
Bieksa#3
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I thought there was some sort of out clause in his contract after the 5th year is up.

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07-06-2013, 01:34 AM
  #602
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Originally Posted by CCF23 View Post
All this talk is going to look pretty silly when everything inevitably blows over.

Luongo wants to be a starting goalie. He's a starting goalie here. Things will be fine.
i hope you're right, but that assumes the only reason luongo wanted a trade was to be a starting goalie...that was the impetus for the original trade request but alot happened in the intervening year to give luongo additional reasons to want out

i think he'll report as well, but i'm less optimistic this will all blow over and all parties will sweep the last two years under the rug for eternity

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07-06-2013, 02:33 AM
  #603
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i hope you're right, but that assumes the only reason luongo wanted a trade was to be a starting goalie...that was the impetus for the original trade request but alot happened in the intervening year to give luongo additional reasons to want out

i think he'll report as well, but i'm less optimistic this will all blow over and all parties will sweep the last two years under the rug for eternity
Luongo is awesome as a #1 goalie. If he cannot get over his ego he should *** off imo.

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07-06-2013, 02:44 AM
  #604
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Yeah the reality is play or don't. I appreciate the simplicity of the statement, and it doesn't really help anyone to dwell on the what-ifs.

It's unfortunate for Luongo but he doesn't have options. They spent a whole trying to trade him and they couldn't do it. If ownership wanted to do Lu a solid, they'd buy him out, but we already know the price tag for that sort of integrity doesn't work for Aquilini.

As it is now, time to make the best of this union, at least until the salary cap goes up high enough to make the caphit for Luongo's salary and recapture penalty marginal. That could happen sooner than later if reports of a 70 million dollar cap next year are true, especially if a team gets especially desperate.

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07-06-2013, 02:53 AM
  #605
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Here's a question: If the Canucks are playing really well (poised to contend again), Luongo is playing well, but Eddie Lack or Ericsson aren't ready yet. A situation opens up where another team is especially desperate. Like, a GM is going to lose his job because his expected contending team is ******** the bed because they can't get it done in goal. He wants Luongo bad to not only save his season, but save his job. Also lets assume the situation there would suit Luongo and be good for his family.

Do you trade Luongo? Give him that fresh start even, even though it leaves the Canucks with nothing in goal and a worst position to contend?

I'd really struggle with this if I was a GM.

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07-06-2013, 04:41 AM
  #606
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Here's a question: If the Canucks are playing really well (poised to contend again), Luongo is playing well, but Eddie Lack or Ericsson aren't ready yet. A situation opens up where another team is especially desperate. Like, a GM is going to lose his job because his expected contending team is ******** the bed because they can't get it done in goal. He wants Luongo bad to not only save his season, but save his job. Also lets assume the situation there would suit Luongo and be good for his family.

Do you trade Luongo? Give him that fresh start even, even though it leaves the Canucks with nothing in goal and a worst position to contend?

I'd really struggle with this if I was a GM.
This hypothetical GM in trouble would look for shorter term options first. Taking on Luongo is a long term commitment, and they don't make that decision on the whim of a losing streak. There are plenty of AHL/NHL back-up goaltenders that are good enough for a NHL team to get by on their services in a pinch.

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If ownership wanted to do Lu a solid, they'd buy him out, but we already know the price tag for that sort of integrity doesn't work for Aquilini.
$27M because his feelings are hurt? He's a professional and will get over it. Yes, this whole debacle could have been handled better, but it's time to move on.

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As it is now, time to make the best of this union, at least until the salary cap goes up high enough to make the caphit for Luongo's salary and recapture penalty marginal. That could happen sooner than later if reports of a 70 million dollar cap next year are true, especially if a team gets especially desperate.
Which would make it an even more attractive option to keep him. The cap went up 70% in 7 years of the last CBA. If that holds true, we'll be looking at a cap north of $110M near the end of Luongo's deal.

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07-06-2013, 11:24 AM
  #607
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Luongo is a true pro, but I don't want to make the guy a prisoner to this franchise just because we're able to.

This hypothetical GM I created was based on Dean Lombardi from 2011-12. He had a mammoth off-season and came into the season with high-expectation, but the team just couldn't score goals, the team was falling apart, and he was forced to fire the coach. Plus his job was on the line too. At the peak of desperation, he goes out and acquires Jeff Carter despite his ridiculous contract.

Goal-scoring woes and Jeff Carter are obviously a very different beasts, but I can imagine a scenario where the GM is so desperate that he zeroes in Luongo as a goaltender that can save his bacon.

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Which would make it an even more attractive option to keep him. The cap went up 70% in 7 years of the last CBA. If that holds true, we'll be looking at a cap north of $110M near the end of Luongo's deal.
I think the next goaltender of the future comes along at that point, whether its Eddie Lack or Erickson or someone else. Better yet if Luongo proves his consistent, durable self, you might actually be able to get a trade done and get something back.

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07-06-2013, 12:19 PM
  #608
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I don't have a ton of sympathy for Luongo...and I do believe he'll report. That being said - few things are worse for an NHL team than an unhappy, disgruntled star/core player who does not want to be here. I don't really care if Luongo gets paid, doesn't get paid, spends his summer in Miami...whatever. I do care about the effects of a negative influence in the room has on team morale and performance.

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07-06-2013, 12:46 PM
  #609
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He was suppose to do his first interview after all this went down with CFOX today. Jeff O'neil and Captain Scotty are in Vegas for the world series of poker. Lou is playing in the tourney, and there suppose to party together this weekend so they say. The interview was going to be Thursday then it was moved to Friday but Lou wasn't going to be in Vegas until Saturday, I guess his plans changed. Anyways look out for it on the CFOX website, it should be posted as soon as it happens, if indeed it does happen.

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07-06-2013, 12:47 PM
  #610
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He was suppose to do his first interview after all this went down with CFOX today. Jeff O'neil and Captain Scotty are in Vegas for the world series of poker. Lou is playing in the tourney, and there suppose to party together this weekend so they say. The interview was going to be Thursday then it was moved to Friday but Lou wasn't going to be in Vegas until Saturday, I guess his plans changed. Anyways look out for it on the CFOX website, it should be posted as soon as it happens, if indeed it does happen.
They said they'd post it Monday. I don't think he'll be saying much.

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07-06-2013, 01:01 PM
  #611
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They said they'd post it Monday. I don't think he'll be saying much.
I'm sure most will be poker related but was hoping they could get some hockey info out of him.

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07-06-2013, 04:42 PM
  #612
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I still remember the day the Canucks traded for Luongo, Was in the backseat of my buddy's car and heard the news over the radio. My initial reaction was "No more Dan Cloutier", Haven't been that excited over a Canucks trade since.

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07-06-2013, 04:53 PM
  #613
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Originally Posted by Lutho View Post
I still remember the day the Canucks traded for Luongo, Was in the backseat of my buddy's car and heard the news over the radio. My initial reaction was "No more Dan Cloutier", Haven't been that excited over a Canucks trade since.
The day of no more Cloutier was a good one indeed.

Shame the 2nd round pick they got for Cloutier was used on freaking Taylor Ellington and not a PK Subban. *grumble* Nonis *grumble*

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07-06-2013, 04:53 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
Here's a question: If the Canucks are playing really well (poised to contend again), Luongo is playing well, but Eddie Lack or Ericsson aren't ready yet. A situation opens up where another team is especially desperate. Like, a GM is going to lose his job because his expected contending team is ******** the bed because they can't get it done in goal. He wants Luongo bad to not only save his season, but save his job. Also lets assume the situation there would suit Luongo and be good for his family.

Do you trade Luongo? Give him that fresh start even, even though it leaves the Canucks with nothing in goal and a worst position to contend?

I'd really struggle with this if I was a GM.

Yes, I would deal Luongo in such a situation. There's already too much baggage in this situation, and I can only imagine this city if Luongo struggles in the playoffs. There will be carnage.

Aside from Luongo's own ability, this situation is about moving an asset that was slated to be moved for quite some time. It's only to the team's benefit to have that situation actually present itself now. Then it no longer becomes about an unmovable contract, but about weakening one's own team in the short term, in order to ensure the book is closed on a tenuous situation.

The interesting quirk here is that in a normal situation, where a player could just run their contract out and move on when it was done, Luongo's contract will only run out when he retires. So he can't really bide his time here. He's either disgruntled, or not. Which really puts the pressure on behind the scenes.

I think the Canucks should devalue the goaltending position altogether, but that's on the larger picture, and not specific to Luongo.

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07-06-2013, 05:20 PM
  #615
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Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
Luongo is a true pro, but I don't want to make the guy a prisoner to this franchise just because we're able to.

This hypothetical GM I created was based on Dean Lombardi from 2011-12. He had a mammoth off-season and came into the season with high-expectation, but the team just couldn't score goals, the team was falling apart, and he was forced to fire the coach. Plus his job was on the line too. At the peak of desperation, he goes out and acquires Jeff Carter despite his ridiculous contract.

Goal-scoring woes and Jeff Carter are obviously a very different beasts, but I can imagine a scenario where the GM is so desperate that he zeroes in Luongo as a goaltender that can save his bacon.


I think the next goaltender of the future comes along at that point, whether its Eddie Lack or Erickson or someone else. Better yet if Luongo proves his consistent, durable self, you might actually be able to get a trade done and get something back.
The difference between Jeff Carter and the forward he is replacing is a point every other game. The difference between an above average to elite goaltender (.920+) and an average one (.910) is an extra goal allowed every 3 or 4 games. The potential value over replacement is higher with skaters than it is with goaltenders, so it's easier to get by with an average goaltender. I assume this is one reason why the goaltending market has tanked.

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07-06-2013, 05:27 PM
  #616
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The difference between Jeff Carter and the forward he is replacing is a point every other game. The difference between an above average to elite goaltender (.920+) and an average one (.910) is an extra goal allowed every 3 or 4 games. The potential value over replacement is higher with skaters than it is with goaltenders, so it's easier to get by with an average goaltender. I assume this is one reason why the goaltending market has tanked.

Completely on point. This is _the_ reason, IMO, that goalies are devalued compared to skaters across the board.

However, in the case Wisp presents, he's outlining a team that doesn't have even average goaltending, and therefore are desperate for a solution.

With GMs these days though, who can say logic factors in? When a buffoon like Tallon can tank an entire year due to not only misreading his existing roster, but misreading the impact of goaltending in general, who can say that these people are properly evaluating what they need at all?


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07-06-2013, 05:27 PM
  #617
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I thought there was some sort of out clause in his contract after the 5th year is up.
I believe after 5 years, Luongo could demand a trade.. the Canuck portion was after 7 years where his NTC would be null and void for a window

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07-06-2013, 05:34 PM
  #618
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I suspect about the only leverage there is on Luongo is a spot in Sochi. I don't know who's on the invite list these days, this is from an interview with Yzerman about a month ago.

Quote:
"He did not speculate which goalies would be invited but it sounds like Corey Crawford of the Chicago Blackhawks has moved into contention along with the usual suspects of Carey Price, Roberto Luongo, Mike Smith and Cam Ward."

 
Old
07-06-2013, 05:54 PM
  #619
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Its wrong to expect a buyout when you can still play. Luongo stands to benefit $10-15MM while ownership is out $27MM.

Its also wrong that players like VL got a buyout and signed a lucrative contract 2 days later. Basically a tax on the other players - it would hit home if they itemized it on each player's paycheque. At the very least, they should not benefit.

This will probably get forcibly resolved by the league if he doesn't show. The dollar amount involved is minute compared to league revenue - not worth the bad publicity. I don't expect him to play another game in a Canucks uniform.

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07-06-2013, 05:58 PM
  #620
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I don't expect him to play another game in a Canucks uniform.
If I had to bet, I'd bet that way, too.

I'm just glad I don't have to, because I think it's basically a coin toss.

 
Old
07-06-2013, 06:02 PM
  #621
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I think the Canucks should devalue the goaltending position altogether, but that's on the larger picture, and not specific to Luongo.
That may very well be the plan and among the reasons Schneider was dealt. Lack is likely to follow a path similar to Crawford, Niemi or Halak. Whereas we are liable to have to hand out Price money for Schneider in two years.

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07-06-2013, 06:06 PM
  #622
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Its wrong to expect a buyout when you can still play. Luongo stands to benefit $10-15MM while ownership is out $27MM.

Its also wrong that players like VL got a buyout and signed a lucrative contract 2 days later. Basically a tax on the other players - it would hit home if they itemized it on each player's paycheque. At the very least, they should not benefit.

This will probably get forcibly resolved by the league if he doesn't show. The dollar amount involved is minute compared to league revenue - not worth the bad publicity. I don't expect him to play another game in a Canucks uniform.
You truly believe Luongo will walk away from his contract? That is a lot of money to essentially **** away due to pent up frustration. Should it happen though, I want Gillis fired simultaneously because his handling of these circumstances will have begun to border Milbury level of incompetence.

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07-06-2013, 06:14 PM
  #623
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Yes, I would deal Luongo in such a situation. There's already too much baggage in this situation, and I can only imagine this city if Luongo struggles in the playoffs. There will be carnage.

Aside from Luongo's own ability, this situation is about moving an asset that was slated to be moved for quite some time. It's only to the team's benefit to have that situation actually present itself now. Then it no longer becomes about an unmovable contract, but about weakening one's own team in the short term, in order to ensure the book is closed on a tenuous situation.

The interesting quirk here is that in a normal situation, where a player could just run their contract out and move on when it was done, Luongo's contract will only run out when he retires. So he can't really bide his time here. He's either disgruntled, or not. Which really puts the pressure on behind the scenes.

I think the Canucks should devalue the goaltending position altogether, but that's on the larger picture, and not specific to Luongo.
I completely agree. The Chicago cap-structure is what we should be looking at.

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07-06-2013, 06:20 PM
  #624
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Luongo will report. The Canucks are not buying him out so he's not playing anywhere else and he won't make Team Canada without playing.

Nuts in a vice.

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07-06-2013, 06:22 PM
  #625
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That may very well be the plan and among the reasons Schneider was dealt. Lack is likely to follow a path similar to Crawford, Niemi or Halak. Whereas we are liable to have to hand out Price money for Schneider in two years.
The stupidest notion on these boards is that we should have rid ourselves of schneider because he might cost a lot later on. If he is commanding a large salary then it will be because he was like .....good and deserved it. Best rid ourselves if kassian next year too if he has a good year because he'll cost lots of money on his next contract.

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