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Immediate reaction: Grade Darcy's 2013 Draft Day

View Poll Results: Grade:
A 25 13.51%
A- 38 20.54%
B+ 53 28.65%
B 29 15.68%
B- 11 5.95%
C+ 10 5.41%
C 8 4.32%
C- 5 2.70%
D 5 2.70%
F 1 0.54%
Voters: 185. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-01-2013, 11:38 AM
  #101
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People upset about the Sekera trade and later claiming they would have preferred Fucale to Compher with the pick obtained in the Sekera deal are confusing.

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07-01-2013, 11:38 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post
You should have simply just had A, B, C, D etc....

I'm somewhere between C+ and B- in the above rankings:

- Ristolainen wasn't my first choice pick at 8 but I'm warming to it. Would have liked them to risk it for Nichuskhin but completely understand why they didn't.
- Zadarov was probably the concensus BPA @ 16 and has intriguing potential. Fine with this.
- That said, I don't like D/D... would have liked to have got a forward with at least one of these picks.
Why? We spent 3 top half 1st rounders on Forwards in the last 2 drafts.



Quote:
- You will need to excuse my ignorance as I went to bed during 2nd round of draft and have just got home from work now... but if Sekera + 8 is all it would have took to get 5th OV I would have made that move in a proverbial heartbeat and took Monahan or Lindholm. DR dropped a bollock here if this is true.
It's probably not fully accurate... Carolina was probably looking for the 38th as well.

Lindholm and Bailey
or
Ristolainen, Compher, Hurley, and Bailey

That's an easy choice

I think Ristolainen has a higher upside than Lindholm

Quote:
- Hopefully some of the guys they took from JT Compher and later are high potential risk/reward types, and they hit with one.
Actually, Compher is Low Risk. I think he'll be viewed as a lock to make the NHL, but he's going to be a tough, gritty, 2 way, 3rd liner, with 2nd line potential tops. A shutdown forward, 1st unit PKer, leader on the ice. never takes a shift off...

he fits the identity Regier is trying to create

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Old
07-01-2013, 11:48 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Wisent42 View Post
I agree on the despise and the respect. I don't want a tanking team. It's cheating.
Whats the difference between tanking and being really bad? Heck, this rebuilding process we're in, if we got the #1 pick people would say we tanked.

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07-01-2013, 11:52 AM
  #104
Rowley Birkin
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Why? We spent 3 top half 1st rounders on Forwards in the last 2 drafts.
That is true, but I think forwards are generally safer bets with high picks - plus you need twice as many of them on a team...

But with the way the first six picks went, I can't hate the RR pick. Only players I'd have definitely wanted before him there were Nichuskhin and Horvat.

With the way it fell Zadarov was the logical pick at 16 so I won't complain about that at all. They went BPA.

And since I think its harder to judge a good young prospect becoming a top player at D, at least they have two chances with these guys therefore twice the chance of one of them making it.


Quote:
It's probably not fully accurate... Carolina was probably looking for the 38th as well.

Lindholm and Bailey
or
Ristolainen, Compher, Hurley, and Bailey

That's an easy choice
As I said, I do not know anything other than the rumour that 'Carolina wanted Sekera in any trade for 5th OV'.

Even with the 38, I'd probably do it.... but its water under the bridge.


Quote:
Actually, Compher is Low Risk. I think he'll be viewed as a lock to make the NHL, but he's going to be a tough, gritty, 2 way, 3rd liner, with 2nd line potential tops. A shutdown forward, 1st unit PKer, leader on the ice. never takes a shift off...

he fits the identity Regier is trying to create
Again, I only do any research on the very top players, and 7-8 guys the Sabres are targeting with their top pick. So I am not going to argue with anyone about the guys taken further down the draft.

Do not mind that type of player at all, but would have liked a potential impact winger or the top goalie in the draft as reward for moving Sekera.

I'm not going to hate any of these picks.

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07-01-2013, 11:54 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Digable5 View Post
Ok so next draft we have to take all college kids again? And then the year after that? And then the year after that? Unless you do, its going to catch up to you eventually. The draft is about acquiring talent not managing your signing time table. I would hate to see them limit their options to only the best college bound kids instead of the best players around.

If you have too many people signed, make some trades. Make some moves. This isn't Hoarders on TLC. Its not about acquiring the most players, its about acquiring the best players.
I agree with everything you said.

BUT I have zero qualms with the particular set of college guys he took because they were by and large really good value when they were taken. The stars aligned and Regier got the best of both worlds.

Also I feel the college thing is overstated, in that the top college guys will sign with the Sabres in 2-3 years anyways, so they aren't gaining much time. The exception is Hurley being a long term project.

I do think it is a reasonable consideration in the late rounds when everything is a crapshoot anyways.

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07-01-2013, 11:57 AM
  #106
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I went with a B+.

Risto over Horvat and I'm not big on Hurley over Santini were the only real things I could nit pick.

Horvat, Zadorov, Compher, Santini, Bailey might have been a better first 5 picks over the long run than Ristolainen, Zadorov, Compher, Hurley, Bailey will be.

But, it's all a crap shoot, so who knows....

And I have no issue with passing on Nichushkin if they didn't have a good feeling about his flight risk potential.

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07-01-2013, 11:59 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post

Do not mind that type of player at all, but would have liked a potential impact winger or the top goalie in the draft as reward for moving Sekera.
I'm glad Darcy understands that you build with Centers and Defensemen... wingers and goalies are what you fill in after you've built a core you believe you can contend with.

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07-01-2013, 12:02 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by LegomyLeggio View Post
I went with a B+.

Risto over Horvat and I'm not big on Hurley over Santini were the only real things I could nit pick.

Horvat, Zadorov, Compher, Santini, Bailey might have been a better first 5 picks over the long run than Ristolainen, Zadorov, Compher, Hurley, Bailey will be.
Totally agree with this.

They were never taking Nichuskhin that I can accept 100%.

Re: Santini - taking three D with the first four would have been a little crazy... but if they had grabbed Horvat it would be the obvious pick.

Horvat @ 8
Zadarov @ 16
Fucale or Zykov @ 35
Santini @ 38

With the benefit of hindsight would have been best case scenario for me. But they didn't do too badly at all so I'm not upset about it.

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Old
07-01-2013, 12:03 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Canadian View Post
I'm a huge fan of Zadorov. He will be a great player for you guys.

You guys filled the cupboards with great young players in one draft. I'd be very excited to be a Sabres fan right now.

Good luck
I'd be very excited to be a Sabres fan in 3-5 years

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07-01-2013, 12:07 PM
  #110
Rowley Birkin
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I'm glad Darcy understands that you build with Centers and Defensemen... wingers and goalies are what you fill in after you've built a core you believe you can contend with.
If you think you can draft a top winger or goalie, you still don't hesitate to do it.

(the last three Smythe winners have been a goalie or a winger.... )

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07-01-2013, 12:15 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post
If you think you can draft a top winger or goalie, you still don't hesitate to do it.

(the last three Smythe winners have been a goalie or a winger.... )
I do, and so does Darcy

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07-01-2013, 12:21 PM
  #112
Rowley Birkin
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I do, and so does Darcy
I thought you liked Zykov, and Erne as well in that range...

Like I said I'm not complaining about any of the picks.

But to draft purely on position would be crazy and they won't do it. Are you suggesting no more wingers or goalies within the first three rounds from now on ?

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07-01-2013, 12:37 PM
  #113
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Also, with what you guys are saying about Santini over Hurley... I would have been 100% fine with Santini even if it meant more D. That said, Hurley is exciting as a young kid with potential. It'll be fun to evaluate his season this year and try and pin where he'd have gone on draft day next year considering he's right on the line of very young '13 / old '14.

Yes, he's a high school player, but it's not like Brad Navin-level high school. He also got a taste of the USHL and put up 8 points in 11 games. I believe he will spend this season in the USHL where we'll be able to get a fair sense of where he's at now and track his progress throughout the year.

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07-01-2013, 12:41 PM
  #114
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http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...nd-losers.html

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DRAFT WINNERS

Buffalo

The Sabres used two picks in 2012 to shore up the middle of the franchise, taking Mikhail Grigorenko and Zemgus Girgensons in the first round. This time, they went with a pair of big defenders in Rasmus Ristolainen and Nikita Zadorov. Ristolainen is closer to the NHL and has played against men back home in Finland for the past couple years, while Zadorov is a mammoth with a mean streak. The Sabres are becoming quite adept at filling their needs lately.

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07-01-2013, 01:09 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by LegomyLeggio View Post
Adroit at filling development pipeline needs. They've sucked at filling roster needs for the past half dozen years.

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07-01-2013, 01:12 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by VaporTrail View Post
D, any GM could have done what he did....He should have swung Miller.
To who? For what? The Sabres can't trade with themselves.

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07-01-2013, 01:17 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Apparently Columbus was interested in Miller on draft day...

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/b...rc=desktop&wjb


"The Blue Jackets were very close to re-signing goalie Sergei Bobrovsky, a deal that could have been completed as soon as Monday. But what a wild weekend it appeared to be for the Jackets. For starters, they took trade calls from other teams on Bobrovsky when it wasn’t clear if they would ever be able to close the gap in contract talks. Meanwhile, sources confirm that the Jackets spoke to the Buffalo Sabres about Ryan Miller, Vancouver about Schneider and even checked in Saturday night with the Phoenix Coyotes on Mike Smith, the latter out of reach after agreeing to terms with Phoenix on a six-year deal worth $5.667 million a season. In the end, unless the Bobrovsky deal falls part, they finally got their Vezina Trophy winner back, which is the best solution of all.
More of a Plan B option it sounds like.

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07-01-2013, 01:20 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post
If you think you can draft a top winger or goalie, you still don't hesitate to do it.

(the last three Smythe winners have been a goalie or a winger.... )
Goalies, in my view, are overvalued in today's game.

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07-01-2013, 01:53 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I do, and so does Darcy
Seriously...This must have been your dream draft. You must be ecstatic right now. Bigger, meaner, tougher, harder to play against. I might be joining that crew soon but I still think we lack those 1-2 elite franchise caliber forwards that can play on the first line.

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07-01-2013, 01:56 PM
  #120
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can someone do may a favour and find out what all the players combine measurements were? I find it hard to believe Compher is 6.0 like he is listed

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07-01-2013, 01:57 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
1. Selects Rasmus Ristolainen #8. Top alternative choices: Horvat, Nichushkin. Right choice? I think so. To me this is a perfect intersection of BPA and need. Our current and future D corps looked thin and soft. I personally believe Risto will become much better than the bland "top 4 D" that many project.

2. Selects Nikita Zadarov #16. Top alternative choices: Lazar, Shinkaruk. Right choice? I think so. To me Zadarov is clearly BPA here, and there is nothing so great about our current or future D corps that would make me hesitate to address that need twice in the 1st round.

3. Trades Sekera for McBain, #35. Top alternative choices: Keep Sekera, trade for #5 instead (using #8). Right choice? Debatable. Sekera is an excellent defenseman. Not elite, or flashy, or overly physical, but a solid piece that any team would want, especially on his current contract. How good would he be, and on what contract, by the the rest of the team is ready to compete? Unknown. Without him the 2014 tank will be more effective on average. #35 is a quality piece that will probably contribute to our rebuilt team. The main question lies in whether or not it would have been better to trade for #5. Basically, is Risto and Computer better than Lindholm or Monahan? I think so, but I know that many people disagree.
Didn't read the draft day thread, have only read this one, forgive me if this has been hashed in the draft-day-thread.
This post's assessment is the proper way to critique any team's draft - what were the alternatives at that pick?
One can't assume at the time of the 5th pick that Zadarov would have fallen to #16, so, BUF needed to assume that #5-7 would have been some combination of Lindholm, Monahan, Ristolainen, Nichuskin, and maybe Nurse or Horvat. If BUF wanted RR all along and felt he would fall (or, on an equal-talent assessment, felt Right D was a bigger need than another center in ), then not moving up makes sense.

4. Selects JT Computer #35. Top alternative choices: Zykov, Fucale. Right choice? Debatable. Computer was solidly projected late first, so this is technically a bargain. It is only the fact that Zykov and Fucale went 36 and 37, preventing us from selecting either at 38, that makes me ponder some regret. Should we have picked one of them instead? Would Computer have made it to 38? Difficult to say.

5. Selects Connor Hurley #38. Top alternative choices: Dauphin, Santini, Petan, Nastychuk. Right choice? Very debatable. There were many different players that many different people in IRC wanted here, and Hurley was not on anyone's list. However, he was only projected to go a little bit lower than this. Due to his extremly young age (youngest eligible draftee this year) I'm conceptualizing this as a trade for a 2014 draft pick. Time will tell if we effectively just traded #38 2013 for a 2014 1st or something considerably less valuable.

6. Selects Justin Bailey #52. Top alternative choices: Carrier, Lehkonen, Bowey. Right choice? Debatable. Many in IRC, including myself, were rooting for Carrier. The scouts obviously preferred Bailey. I hope it wasn't just for the hometown thing. Bailey was my second choice and he has a good chance to succeed imo, so I'm okay with it.

7. Selects Nicholas Baptiste #69. Top alternative choices: Hurley, Buchnevich, Duclair. Right choice? I think so. Its mostly in the eye of the beholder by round 3, but I viewed him as the clear BPA. Most of IRC seemed to agree.

8. No comment on picks in rounds 4-7, everything that late is in the eye of the beholder.

Overall, I would give it a B+. I thought the 1st round picks were correct, I thought the trade was positive, and while I can see the criticism for the 2nd round picks I can also see the rationale for them.
Didn't read the draft day thread, have only read this thread, so forgive me if this has been hashed in the draft-day-thread.

This post's assessment is the proper way to critique any team' draft - what were the alternatives at that pick?

Re: the potential #5 for #8 swap with Carolina, one can't assume at the time of the 5th pick that Zadarov would have fallen to #16, so, BUF needed to assume that #5-7 would have been some combination of Lindholm, Monahan, Ristolainen, Nichuskin, and maybe Nurse or Horvat. If BUF wanted RR all along and felt he would fall (or, on an equal-talent assessment, felt Right D was a bigger need than center), then not moving up makes sense. [Imagine if the trade was made and BUF took Lindholm, then Zadarov off the board at #16, so BUF took Gauthier instead.]

Additionally, as Jame noted, the proposed trade may have been #8 + Sekera + #38 for #5 + McBain.

I withhold a grade, as it takes time to assess the true value of the draft.

If I must assign a grade, my criteria is based on the choices made vs. the options available. Following SoFFacet's method, I don't think Darcy went out to lunch.
  • How many GMs would have done better with the 10 (11) total picks BUF had?
  • How many GMs could have acquired a pick near #35 (+ McBain) for a lesser value Sabre than Sekera?
  • Could another GM have acquired 6 picks in the top 69 selections?
  • Would another GM have moved Vanek and/or Miller for pick(s) + player(s)?
I think the honest answer is some GMs would have bested Darcy at each of the above. I can't say how many GMs would have bested Darcy at each bullet point.
I'll give Darcy a passing grade, but the final is worth 50% of his grade, and that's in 2 years.

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07-01-2013, 02:00 PM
  #122
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A from me. Picks in the 1st and 2nd were fantastic. Hurley in particular. Youngest player in the draft, lots of size, still growing, great skater, strong on his skates. Love the pick. Not looking forward to playing you guys 3-5 years down the road!

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07-01-2013, 02:16 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Buffalo Sabres

The Sabres had an obvious need for size and talent on the back end and GM Darcy Regier addressed it in a way that exceeded the highest hopes of the team’s fans. Rasmus Ristolainen (8) and Nikita Zadorov (16) are big, mean, impact players. The second round was just as fruitful, with hard-working forwards JT Compher (35) and Connor Hurley (38) and sniper Justin Bailey (52) giving the front lines an injection of second/third line potential. Add in the trade that netted defenseman Jamie McBain from Carolina and the day could not have gone better for this rebuilding franchise. A+
http://nhl.si.com/2013/07/01/nhl-dra.../?sct=uk_t2_a3

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07-01-2013, 02:59 PM
  #124
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http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2013...rospects-taken

Quote:
35. J.T. Compher — Buffalo Sabres: Buffalo had a really terrific first couple of rounds and Compher is a big part of that. The captain of last year’s U.S. National Under-18 Team is a high-character kid, with a hard-nosed game and some skill. He plays tough, works incredibly hard and has a knack for coming through in big games. He’s undersized, but his competitiveness and aggressive style bode well for his future. Compher should get quality development time at the University of Michigan to continue to grow his game.

38. Connor Hurley — Buffalo Sabres: Having already had three picks in the draft, Buffalo had the ability to take a little bit more of a chance at No. 38 and they did so with Hurley. After a season in which he dominated at the high school level, the offensive skills Hurley possesses could allude to strong upside. Some of the cracks in his game were exposed a bit in the USHL, but with another junior season to go, he should be able to fix some of his deficiencies. His base of skills are certainly intriguing.

52. Justin Bailey — Buffalo Sabres: The Sabres went all-American in the second round and must have been especially pleased to see Bailey fall to 52. He’s a Buffalo kid, who has really come a long way in his development. He also lived with former Sabre Pat LaFontaine last year while playing for the Long Island Royals. In his first year in the OHL with Kitchener, Bailey showed glimpses of his immense potential. He is still very raw, but could round out into a productive forward. This is about perfect slot value for Bailey.

129. Calvin Petersen — Buffalo Sabres: I always like seeing kids from the non-traditional markets no one talks about get drafted. Petersen is a native of Waterloo, Iowa, played for the local Black Hawks in the USHL and is headed to Notre Dame. I think he has a lot of talent and should get some quality net time at ND over his career there. There is just over 3,000 registered hockey players in Iowa, so it’s tough for a kid to make that leap to become an NHL prospect.

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07-01-2013, 03:03 PM
  #125
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Meh. The only guy who could be the future of this team right now is Ristolainen.

Also, trading Sekera was freaking dumb.


Last edited by Soapy3PO: 07-01-2013 at 03:22 PM.
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