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Research Thread for NHL Award and All-star Voting

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Old
06-27-2013, 06:26 PM
  #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
While we're on the topic of Vezinas, and I'm sure this has been discussed before, what was voter rationale for Beezer over Froese in 1986?
Off the top of my head, I can't think of the last time in which someone led in Wins, GAA, Save Percentage, and Shutouts before Froese. And it's not as if Vanbiesbrouck was outplaying him down the stretch either.

Ultimately, I think the reason is because the Rangers clinched their playoff spot in April (which had more to do with how the Penguins were playing than how Vanbiesbrouck was playing), and because people so closely associated the success of that team with the play of John Vanbiesbrouck, he had a minor edge on Froese - who was only a starting goaltender for the remainder of that season because of the tragedy in November.

While 10 of 60 ballots isn't a lot, he was on the shortlist for the third most valuable player after Gretzky and Lemieux in a lot of minds, even picking up a 1st-place vote.

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Old
07-03-2013, 11:37 AM
  #702
vadim sharifijanov
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well, NHL has finally released the all-stars. two ovies (1st team RW and 2nd team LW). figuring out what to do about that (which in the end seems to be nothing) probably explains the delay.

1st Team:
Kunitz-Crosby-Ovechkin
Subban-Suter
Bobrovsky

2nd Team:
Ovechkin-Toews-St.Louis
Beauchemin-Letang
Lundqvist


bob mckenzie on a twitter rampage, btw

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Old
07-03-2013, 11:49 AM
  #703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
well, NHL has finally released the all-stars. two ovies (1st team RW and 2nd team LW). figuring out what to do about that (which in the end seems to be nothing) probably explains the delay.

1st Team:
Kunitz-Crosby-Ovechkin
Subban-Suter
Bobrovsky

2nd Team:
Ovechkin-Toews-St.Louis
Beauchemin-Letang
Lundqvist


bob mckenzie on a twitter rampage, btw


Hopefully, this embarrassment will inspire the writers to FINALLY update how they choose the all-star forwards. There's been a lot of vote splitting in the past, some close calls, but this is the first time a guy was named All-Star twice.

By the way, I was half joking, but I (almost) called this scenario:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...27&postcount=8

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07-03-2013, 11:50 AM
  #704
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Would want to see the voting numbers for LW. Having Kunitz as a NHL First All Star perhaps means heavily spread out votes which led to Ovechkins old position shining through from unknowlegable voters.

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07-03-2013, 11:53 AM
  #705
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Where is the numbers for the Lindsay BTW, it aint there post #105 and forward?

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Old
07-03-2013, 12:04 PM
  #706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Where is the numbers for the Lindsay BTW, it aint there post #105 and forward?
Pearson/Lindsay voting is never publicly released.

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Old
07-03-2013, 12:27 PM
  #707
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Also, should note this is the first season in which the Art Ross winner was not on the first team since Gretzky in 93-94.

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Old
07-03-2013, 12:29 PM
  #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
well, NHL has finally released the all-stars. two ovies (1st team RW and 2nd team LW). figuring out what to do about that (which in the end seems to be nothing) probably explains the delay.

1st Team:
Kunitz-Crosby-Ovechkin
Subban-Suter
Bobrovsky

2nd Team:
Ovechkin-Toews-St.Louis
Beauchemin-Letang
Lundqvist


bob mckenzie on a twitter rampage, btw
Embarrassing.

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Old
07-03-2013, 12:58 PM
  #709
tarheelhockey
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Well, that explains the delay.

Released on the afternoon of July 3rd, heading into the holiday, with free agency starting on July 5th. Way to bury the news.

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Old
07-03-2013, 01:54 PM
  #710
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2012-2013 NHL ALL-STAR TEAM VOTING RESULTS

GOALTENDER

#PlayerTEAM123PTS
1Bobrovsky SergeiCLB1292411728
2Lundqvist HenrikNYR124040220
3Niemi AnttiSJ94345219
4Rask TuukkaBOS93330174
5Anderson CraigOTT142318157
6Crawford CoreyCHI16932
7Reimer JamesTOR02410
8Nabokov EvgeniNYI1108
9Howard JimmyDET0147
10Emery RayCHI0136
11Price CareyMTL0125
12Schneider CoryVAN0044
13Backstrom NiklasMIN0022
14Fasth ViktorANA0011
14Fleury Marc-AndrePIT0011
14Holtby BradenWAS0011


DEFENSE

#Player PlayerTEAM123PTS
1Subban P.K.MTL1214710756
2Suter RyanMIN1124615713
3Letang KrisPIT718217618
4Beauchemin FrancoisANA114760256
5Keith DuncanCHI104855249
6Chara ZdenoBOS202442214
7Weber SheaNSH1142168
8Ekman-Larsson OliverPHO4111265
9Doughty DrewLA191648
10Yandle KeithPHO152040
11Kronwall NiklasDET231635
12Pietrangelo AlexSTL22925
13Phaneuf DionTOR06725
14Markov AndreiMTL121223
15Byfuglien DustinWPG03312
16Hamhuis DanVAN03110
17Green MikeWAS02410
18Timonen KimmoPHI01710
19Girardi DanNYR1027
20Seidenberg DennisBOS0125
21Karlsson ErikOTT0114
21Souray SheldonANA0114
23Voynov SlavaLA0033
24Garrison JasonVAN0022
24Gonchar SergeiOTT0022
24Leddy NickCHI0022
24Martin PaulPIT0022
28Bieksa KevinVAN0011
28Campbell BrianFLA0011
28Ehrhoff ChristianBUF0011
28Franson CodyTOR0011
28Mcdonagh RyanNYR0011
28Visnovsky LubomirNYI0011
28Zidlicky MarekNJ0011


CENTER

#Player PlayerTEAM123PTS
1Crosby SidneyPIT1154418725
2Toews JonathanCHI366044404
3Stamkos StevenTB144142235
4Tavares JohnNYI132941193
5Datsyuk PavelDET031322
6Getzlaf RyanANA001212
7Staal EricCAR0136
8Giroux ClaudePHI1005
9Sedin HenrikVAN0114
10Zetterberg HenrikDET0022
11Bergeron PatriceBOS0011
11Duchene MattCOL0011
11Kopitar AnzeLA0011


RIGHT WING

#Player PlayerTEAM123PTS
1Ovechkin AlexWAS103237591
2St. Louis MartinTB367438440
3Kane PatrickCHI366368437
4Kessel PhilTOR2102868
5Dupuis PascalPIT041022
6Stamkos StevenTB20010
7Voracek JakubPHI0158
8Neal JamesPIT0066
9Callahan RyanNYR0114
10Semin AlexanderCAR0044
11Carter JeffLA0103
11Nash RickNYR0103
13Perry CoreyANA0033
14Stewart ChrisSTL0022
15Alfredsson DanielOTT0011
15Getzlaf RyanANA0011
15Giroux ClaudePHI0011
15Hossa MarianCHI0011
15Kovalchuk IlyaNJ0011
15Parenteau P.A.COL0011
15Wheeler BlakeWPG0011


LEFT WING

#Player PlayerTEAM123PTS
1Kunitz ChrisPIT704728519
2Ovechkin AlexWAS4140217
3Hall TaylorEDM182831205
4Zetterberg HenrikDET172228179
5Ladd AndrewWPG112830169
6Nash RickNYR102723154
7Sedin DanielVAN44638
8Vanek ThomasBUF26836
9Moulson MattNYI05924
10Parise ZachMIN13923
11Marchand BradBOS22319
12Kane PatrickCHI1005
12St. Louis MartinTB1005
14Dupuis PascalPIT0103
14Marleau PatrickSJ0103
16Neal JamesPIT0011
16Saad BrandonCHI0011
16Voracek JakubPHI0011


Last edited by pnep: 07-04-2013 at 02:36 AM.
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Old
07-03-2013, 02:13 PM
  #711
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Thanks, pnep.

Hmmmm...I was hoping there would be enough Ovechkin first-place votes that we could prove that some voters voted for him in both positions simultaneously.

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07-03-2013, 02:40 PM
  #712
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Nick Leddy got TWO votes?

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Old
07-03-2013, 02:43 PM
  #713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Nick Leddy got TWO votes?
You and me. Our votes count also.

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Old
07-03-2013, 03:00 PM
  #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
You and me. Our votes count also.
And with all the hubbub about Ovie, I haven't noticed a single comment about the fact that Nick freakin' Kunitz won a 1AS position.

This ballot is jading me the more I look at it. The only relief is that the writers confirmed the GMs' selection of Bobrovsky for the Vezina, so we don't have to deal with that firestorm forever.

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07-03-2013, 03:26 PM
  #715
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I mentioned many moons ago how I think they should just do 3 generic forward positions and it would solve so many issues.

Also Chris Kunitz getting 1st Team LW haha holy **** thats bad

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07-03-2013, 03:31 PM
  #716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
And with all the hubbub about Ovie, I haven't noticed a single comment about the fact that Nick freakin' Kunitz won a 1AS position.
This definitely caught my eye...its the 2nd biggest embarrassment of this season All-star voting.

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07-03-2013, 03:32 PM
  #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishdul View Post
I mentioned many moons ago how I think they should just do 3 generic forward positions and it would solve so many issues.

Also Chris Kunitz getting 1st Team LW haha holy **** thats bad
That's too much. C - 2 wingers - 2 D's and G is alright.

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07-03-2013, 03:44 PM
  #718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
That's too much. C - 2 wingers - 2 D's and G is alright.
The reason I'd prefer 3 forwards instead of W-C-W is because of the (very frequent) cases where a disproportionate amount of the best forwards are centres but because they only have 2 spots you have cases where the third best forward is not on the postseason all-star team because that's how it shakes out. Most notably when you had Gretzky and Lemieux squeezing out Stastny, Yzerman, etc., but really it applies to the clear majority of years.

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07-03-2013, 03:55 PM
  #719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishdul View Post
I mentioned many moons ago how I think they should just do 3 generic forward positions and it would solve so many issues.

Also Chris Kunitz getting 1st Team LW haha holy **** thats bad
I mean, he led all LWers in scoring and goals, T2 in ES scoring, he plays two-way hockey, he's tough as hell and hits everything that moves creating space for Crosby on the ice.

Goofy stuff happens in small sample size seasons like this. If he's going to do all of that in a 48 game stretch and that's what the sample is, that's who deserves the nod. He's not the best left winger in the game or the most game breaking, but he was the most productive at least. I don't see it as egregious at all. Subban finishing first for defensemen is way worse than that.

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07-03-2013, 04:10 PM
  #720
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Kunitz had top notch point totals as a very direct result of playing with Sidney Crosby, which is a really important thing to point out when comparing him to Hall or Zetterberg or whoever the hell else. Hits is the most meaningless of stats in general and Kunitz was 4th among forwards on his own team. He is not noteworthy as a 2 way player. He was not the most productive LW by any stretch of the imagination and it's a worse pick than Subban, even considering the competition at LW.

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07-03-2013, 04:12 PM
  #721
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The biggest problem this year is that there just weren't any good left wings, but someone had to take the spots. A shame that Stamkos, Tavares, and Kane all got left off in favor of the best of the weak group of left wings (including the second version of Ovechkin).

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07-03-2013, 04:20 PM
  #722
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Of some interest/relevance: http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=6187

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07-03-2013, 05:42 PM
  #723
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Anybody want to bet that the only reason the NHL is letting this stand is because it's one of their favorite stars getting notoriety as the first guy to be an all-star at two positions? Taylor Hall got shafted out of an all-star position. If it was the other way around and Ovechkin was the one getting shafted, NHL head office would move heaven and earth to make sure such an injustice wasn't allowed to stand.

Any writer that votes for a guy at the wrong position should simply have their entire ballot thrown in the garbage and all future voting rights cancelled. If you don't pay attention to any team beyond the one you cover (which is probably most of the writers) you don't get to vote.

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Old
07-03-2013, 05:58 PM
  #724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Anybody want to bet that the only reason the NHL is letting this stand is because it's one of their favorite stars getting notoriety as the first guy to be an all-star at two positions? Taylor Hall got shafted out of an all-star position. If it was the other way around and Ovechkin was the one getting shafted, NHL head office would move heaven and earth to make sure such an injustice wasn't allowed to stand.
Why is it necessarily that Hall is getting shafted? The difference between he and Zetterberg is far smaller than the number of votes cast for Ovechkin.

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07-03-2013, 05:59 PM
  #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Any writer that votes for a guy at the wrong position should simply have their entire ballot thrown in the garbage and all future voting rights cancelled. If you don't pay attention to any team beyond the one you cover (which is probably most of the writers) you don't get to vote.
One of the offending voters claims that they were instructed to vote per the player's official position according to the league (and NHL.com has - or at least had - Ovechkin at left wing). It could be that the instructions are flawed, not necessarily the voters.

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