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Kane for Seguin

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Old
07-01-2013, 11:13 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
One of the main reasons KEssel was traded was because he wanted more money than Boston was willing and could afford to pay. Otherwise he would have been signed and on the team. That is a cap issue.

And according every rumour out there Seguin was on the block to create room for Horton, until Horton said he wanted to try FA. So ya he was getting at least shopped for cap reasons.
No, there was some "tension" between Kessel and the Bruins. They were only going to pay him what they felt was proper value to them. They did not lose a player they wanted to keep because of the cap.

They second part just isn't true. Anyone with a brain knows Seguin at 5.25 > Horton a 6+. Seguin was not on the block either, Chiarelli was making it clear he would listen to offers. This served as a not so subtle wake up call to Seguin to get his act together.

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07-01-2013, 11:14 PM
  #52
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I think this is the basis for a viable trade but Boston likely has to add just a bit.

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07-01-2013, 11:29 PM
  #53
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I liked what I saw when Seguin played the few games at C that he has in the NHL. He won't ever play C with Krejci and Bergeron in Boston.

The Jets are sorely needing a player with 1C potential (I see Scheifele/Little as 2C's). Good teams are built down the middle and that's where they are their weakest (besides possibly goaltending). I would move either Little or Scheifele to RW and have the other play 2C. I would then try to trade Buff or look at FA for help at LW.

The only way I'd do this deal from Boston's perspective is if Kane could play RW (which I think he can). They already have Lucic and Marchand as their top 2 LW. It saves Boston 500k, while still retaining a high end young player and getting a pure scorer which they lack.

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Old
07-01-2013, 11:42 PM
  #54
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Overall we're not very interested in giving up our winger. We're extremely light on scoring wingers on our current roster and in the pipeline. However we do have lots of C - nobody elite yet - but lots of potential. Scheifele, O'Dell, Lowry, Burmistrov are all young centers with potential. We don't have a single winger that compares to any of them. Winnipeg fans are absolutely ecstatic that we picked up Frolik who scored a measly 3 goals last year. He was on the 4th line in Chicago, and he slots in on our 2nd line with Kane. We're hoping he's an upgrade on 8 goals in 2 years Miettenen.

Just to give you an idea of how badly we need scoring wingers. Our top 3 wingers - Ladd, Wheeler, and Kane - each played 48 games for a total of 144 games with 54 goals. Every other winger (Wellwood, Miettenen, Thorburn, Peluso, Tangradi, Santorelli, Wright, Scheifele, Ponikarovsky some are listed as C's but all played wing) combined for 208 games and scored 16 goals. All year it was either Miettenen or Wellwood on the 2nd line RW position. 16 goals from your bottom 9 wingers not including Kane is pathetic.

There's zero issue with Kane in Winnipeg. Just lots of rumors, but nothing concrete. Unless you think the moneyphone is upsetting, and somehow affects his tenure in Winnipeg.

We won't move him for anything less than an overpayment. Seguin alone is getting there, but not enough. If both teams were motivated for this trade, value is probably Kane for Seguin + middle/late pick. But we're not motivated for a trade, so we want overpayment.


Last edited by allan5oh: 07-01-2013 at 11:56 PM.
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Old
07-02-2013, 12:00 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Disagree. Winnipeg has a chance to get a legitmate ppg potential 1st line center in Seguin.

Seguin on the wing of a stacked defensive oriented bruins team had 67 pts playing only

17 min a game
and having a modest 15 pts from the pp.

Imagine him being a 1st line center avg 20 min a game.
He got those points while playing against 2nd/3rd liners. Why would he fare better against top competition?

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07-02-2013, 12:16 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by plumsandpeaches View Post
He got those points while playing against 2nd/3rd liners. Why would he fare better against top competition?
You're making up facts. The Bergeron line (which he was on) usually plays against other teams top lines.

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07-02-2013, 12:27 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
You're making up facts. The Bergeron line (which he was on) usually plays against other teams top lines.
this is why HF gets crazy... No the facts before posting !! If you don't watch them ask not take low blows

FACT Marchy Bergy Segs face all the top lines sure not always but most maybe these Seg bashers should look at this kid plus minus 2 way game people

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07-02-2013, 12:52 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BergyWho37 View Post
this is why HF gets crazy... No the facts before posting !! If you don't watch them ask not take low blows

FACT Marchy Bergy Segs face all the top lines sure not always but most maybe these Seg bashers should look at this kid plus minus 2 way game people
I watch almost all of Boston's games. Same with the Jets.

I think people tend to forget that forwards can actually play well defensively. Seguin's development has a lot to do with playing a strong 2 way game, it's something Julien expects from all his forwards.

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07-02-2013, 01:11 AM
  #59
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Kane would be incredible on Boston. He's their kind of player.

But like many have said, Kane has more value and Boston would have to add.

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07-02-2013, 01:17 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Love View Post
Kane would be incredible on Boston. He's their kind of player.

But like many have said, Kane has more value and Boston would have to add.
I honestly don't think this is true. Just because Seguin didn't have a good playoffs doesn't mean his value is less than Kane's IMO. Kane has never even played in the playoffs, so we can't even compare the 2 in that regard. During the season I remember talk that Seguin was regarded as more valuable than Kane. I also think a 1C holds more value than a 1LW (which I think both can be but neither has been given the chance). I would definitely do a 1 for 1.

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07-02-2013, 01:17 AM
  #61
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I'm not liking this. Kane is already at a higher level than Seguin, and his potential is also higher. Boston would have to add more to this deal.

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07-02-2013, 01:24 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
You're making up facts. The Bergeron line (which he was on) usually plays against other teams top lines.
Exactly, Seguin is going to produce.

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07-02-2013, 01:33 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
I honestly don't think this is true. Just because Seguin didn't have a good playoffs doesn't mean his value is less than Kane's IMO. Kane has never even played in the playoffs, so we can't even compare the 2 in that regard. During the season I remember talk that Seguin was regarded as more valuable than Kane. I also think a 1C holds more value than a 1LW (which I think both can be but neither has been given the chance). I would definitely do a 1 for 1.
There's no guarantee that Seguin ever plays C in this league (I dont think he has yet, Boston fans correct me if Im wrong).

Point totals aside, I think Kane brings more to the ice than Seguin. And I dont think Seguin's point totals will be so much larger that he will become more valuable than Kane. You're correct about Kane never playing in the playoffs, but based of of his play style and physical tools you have to think he's built for a playoff type game more than Seguin.

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07-02-2013, 01:35 AM
  #64
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Value isn't far off but imo Kane is more valuable than Seguin for the physical game he brings

Kane for Seguin + 2nd 2014 would seem fair to me

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07-02-2013, 01:35 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
no buff no hamilton


just straight up

Kane for seguin
Why exactly would Winnipeg do that?

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07-02-2013, 01:36 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by SayWhatAgain View Post
Seguin + Hamilton for Kane
So basically Kessel for Kane?

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07-02-2013, 01:42 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Disagree. Winnipeg has a chance to get a legitmate ppg potential 1st line center in Seguin.

Seguin on the wing of a stacked defensive oriented bruins team had 67 pts playing only

17 min a game and having a modest 15 pts from the pp.

Imagine him being a 1st line center avg 20 min a game.
Seguin was also surrounded by the best depth in the league (or close to it). He rarely saw opposing team's checking lines or their top scoring lines.

Finally, Seguin isn't a C. He may one day be, but he isn't right now. Even when injuries popped up, he wasn't moved to C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
Wow, you're exaggerating drastically on Seguin's work ethic. Boston mgmt said nothing of the sort, you're making a mountain out of a molehill here.

Seguin is worth much more. I wish EKane was a Shark, but you don't think him posting stacks of cash on twitter isn't a red flag? What about him saying the only reason people dislike him is because he's African American? Those are 2 really stupid and immature things for a pro athlete to say.

Kane has considerably more red flags than Seguin.
What about Seguin posting "no homo", tattooing his own name onto his arm, etc, etc. Both guys sound like immature 20 year olds who have been given a lot of money and a lot of power at a young age.

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07-02-2013, 01:42 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Love View Post
There's no guarantee that Seguin ever plays C in this league (I dont think he has yet, Boston fans correct me if Im wrong).

Point totals aside, I think Kane brings more to the ice than Seguin. And I dont think Seguin's point totals will be so much larger that he will become more valuable than Kane. You're correct about Kane never playing in the playoffs, but based of of his play style and physical tools you have to think he's built for a playoff type game more than Seguin.
He won't in Boston. He played a couple game at C in the 2011 playoffs and also in Switzerland this year (he dominated there). He's been quoted as saying he feels more comfortable playing C, but like I said he won't get that chance in Boston with Krejci and Bergeron there.

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07-02-2013, 01:46 AM
  #69
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Seguin was also surrounded by the best depth in the league (or close to it). He rarely saw opposing team's checking lines or their top scoring lines.
Once again this is untrue. He played on the Bergeron line and they face most of the NHL's top lines.

Quote:
What about Seguin posting "no homo", tattooing his own name onto his arm, etc, etc. Both guys sound like immature 20 year olds who have been given a lot of money and a lot of power at a young age.
Kane recently did the same type of stupid thing regarding a gay slur. They are both obviously immature there's no question about that.

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07-02-2013, 01:51 AM
  #70
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If I'm Winnipeg, I would want a bit more in return for Kane.

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07-02-2013, 02:40 AM
  #71
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I don't want to get off topic here, but neither player did anything homophobic or anti-gay. Evander Kane called a person a fairy. You know what you get when you look up a fairy? A bunch of little girls with sparkling wands. Not 2 males expressing gay behavior. Saying no homo isn't a bad thing either, people say it all the ****ing time, it's second nature. It's like if I ask you if you're gay and you say no "OMG OFFENSIVE!", but it's not. I say this as somebody who was at the pride parade yesterday; homosexuals are so over-defended its ridiculous.

Both guys are obviously immature 21 year olds with lots of money, but Kane is much scarier in terms of this than Seguin. Seguin is in top shape and even if he's kind of a dick, he is a hard worker. Kane is an idiot and actually played the race card in the 21st century on twitter. I hate him, so I'm biased, but Seguin is better. No fights that Kane gets into can change that. Winning a face punching competition is different from winning a hockey game.

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07-02-2013, 03:04 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
I don't want to get off topic here, but neither player did anything homophobic or anti-gay. Evander Kane called a person a fairy. You know what you get when you look up a fairy? A bunch of little girls with sparkling wands. Not 2 males expressing gay behavior. Saying no homo isn't a bad thing either, people say it all the ****ing time, it's second nature. It's like if I ask you if you're gay and you say no "OMG OFFENSIVE!", but it's not. I say this as somebody who was at the pride parade yesterday; homosexuals are so over-defended its ridiculous.
I won't get into it too much (since a difference of opinions will completely derail this thread), but what makes it offensive is the context it currently represents to a group of society. Just because one person isn't offended by a term doesn't mean others won't be. Kane was spoken to, deleted his comment and issued an apology for his ignorance. What I don't get is how Kane was upset about feeling discriminated against and then goes and does the same type of thing. It's really no different than someone calling Kane a "monkey". Which is really only a cute little animal, but the context that it may represent makes it offensive to each individual accordingly. I'm sure he'd take offence to that as it could represent a racial term. Seguin's comment were obviously inappropriate to some also. I'm no apologist for either of these types of remarks as they relate to the context with which they were used. There's no excuse nowadays for people to be ignorant to ethnic groups, sexual orientation or the such. Both are obviosly immature and have a lot of growing to do.

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07-02-2013, 03:20 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
I won't get into it too much (since a difference of opinions will completely derail this thread), but what makes it offensive is the context it currently represents to a group of society. Just because one person isn't offended by a term doesn't mean others won't be. Kane was spoken to, deleted his comment and issued an apology for his ignorance. What I don't get is how Kane was upset about feeling discriminated against and then goes and does the same type of thing. It's really no different than someone calling Kane a "monkey". Which is really only a cute little animal, but the context that it may represent makes it offensive to each individual accordingly. I'm sure he'd take offence to that as it could represent a racial term. Seguin's comment were obviously inappropriate to some also. I'm no apologist for either of these types of remarks as they relate to the context with which they were used. There's no excuse nowadays for people to be ignorant to ethnic groups, sexual orientation or the such. Both are obviosly immature and have a lot of growing to do.
He didn't knowingly discriminate against gays. The term fairy hasn't been used for years, and being from Kane's age group I can speak with certainty that if I hadn't have had a father born in the 50's I would have never learned it was a slur. The term "monkey" is way, way more prevalent than fairy.

Saying "no homo" is just a way to indicate you're not flirting with a guy in an awkward conversation. It can however, be used in really stupid contexts just like any other word combination.

Both were used as jokes and weren't offensive at all. It's just a case of boy crying wolf that takes away from more pressing issues. That's besides the point though. I still think these two need some growing up to do, but that's a given considering their young ages. I can't say with definite certainty that either have bad issues so I don't think that should factor into a potential trade at all.

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07-02-2013, 03:26 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by DominikPavelec View Post
He didn't knowingly discriminate against gays. The term fairy hasn't been used for years, and being from Kane's age group I can speak with certainty that if I hadn't have had a father born in the 50's I would have never learned it was a slur. The term "monkey" is way, way more prevalent than fairy.

Saying "no homo" is just a way to indicate you're not flirting with a guy in an awkward conversation. It can however, be used in really stupid contexts just like any other word combination.

Both were used as jokes and weren't offensive at all. It's just a case of boy crying wolf that takes away from more pressing issues. That's besides the point though. I still think these two need some growing up to do, but that's a given considering their young ages. I can't say with definite certainty that either have bad issues so I don't think that should factor into a potential trade at all.
That's why I said it was ignorant.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ignorant

Language and words can be used with beauty or they can be used to hurt. It really depends on the context behind the use of them. The word queer or ****** can be used as offensive weapons, but they can also be used as descriptive words with no hurt behind them. Those are just examples, I'm not trying to use them in any type of hurtful manner, so I hope people know that and understand my point.

Anyways, I get the point, but I just thought I'd point that out. This is my last comment on the issue.


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07-02-2013, 03:32 AM
  #75
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Seguin was also surrounded by the best depth in the league (or close to it). He rarely saw opposing team's checking lines or their top scoring lines.

Finally, Seguin isn't a C. He may one day be, but he isn't right now. Even when injuries popped up, he wasn't moved to C.



What about Seguin posting "no homo", tattooing his own name onto his arm, etc, etc. Both guys sound like immature 20 year olds who have been given a lot of money and a lot of power at a young age.
Seguin was continually matched up against other teams top lines throughout most of his career, if he wasn't playing against other teams top lines it was usually because other teams had their checking line playing against his line.

He was on a line with Bergeron and Marchand for almost all of the last 2 years, that line is the line the Bruins have play against other teams top lines if they are matching lines.

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