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Updated: Kris Russell clears waivers

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Old
07-02-2013, 12:37 PM
  #26
stlweir
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With Russel's skating ability it is frustrating that he doesn't provide more offensively. I'd like to see Leapold and JBo get a training camp under their belts not to mention all the other players. It is an opportunity for Cole to get some pt when there are injuries. Wouldn't you think Russell would have had some sort of trade value? I guess not.

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Old
07-02-2013, 12:37 PM
  #27
TheOrganist
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Leopold was 100% not an upgrade over Russell with the way Russell was playing at the trade deadline after he had fully recovered from the injury he suffered during the lockout.

I'm sure he was being tough during negotiations because of the way the situation played out. He would've signed for 2-3 years at ~$1.5 had Leopold not been acquired. That will probably be a $1.5 savings over what Leopold will command on a two or three year deal.

With Leopold and Shattenkirk not looking like a proper match, the Blues will be allocating a good deal of money to a 3rd pairing defenseman when they already had a really good one that would've made significantly less.

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Old
07-02-2013, 12:37 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Honestly I am more against bringing
back because I do not trust Hitchcock's ability to make the best lineups. Hitchcock is a great system coach. I just question his ability to best utilize the talent he is given when making a lineup.
This makes zero sense.

Who could the Blues sign or re-sign that you wouldn't be against?

It seems you don't like Hitchcock and against Leopold for it?

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Old
07-02-2013, 12:43 PM
  #29
HooliganX2
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Originally Posted by underslept View Post
This makes zero sense.

Who could the Blues sign or re-sign that you wouldn't be against?

It seems you don't like Hitchcock and against Leopold for it?
Russell fills the 3rd pairing slot fine. I was hoping our defense would look like this

J-Bow Pietrangelo
Jackman Shattenkirk
Russell Polak
Cole


Now I think it will look like this

J-Bow Pietrangelo
Leopold Shattenkirk
Jackman Polak
Cole.

I prefer the first option so much more then the 2nd option.

I don't have a dislike of Hitchcock I just question his lineup ability of making the best lineup at times and adapting and changing it when needed. I am by no means of the mindset we should fire Hitchcock he sucks ect.

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Old
07-02-2013, 12:46 PM
  #30
Vladys Gumption
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Originally Posted by underslept View Post
This makes zero sense.

Who could the Blues sign or re-sign that you wouldn't be against?

It seems you don't like Hitchcock and against Leopold for it?
Or...we don't think Leopold was an upgrade over Russell and that Leopold was misused.

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Old
07-02-2013, 12:48 PM
  #31
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Quit putting Jax with Polak!!

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Old
07-02-2013, 12:50 PM
  #32
Vladys Gumption
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
He just needs to be with Polak and he'll be fine IMO.
That I can at least understand. But, my problem is that having seen what Hitch did last year and his affinity for veterans, I don't think Leopold will be on the third pairing.

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Old
07-02-2013, 12:55 PM
  #33
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That I can at least understand. But, my problem is that having seen what Hitch did last year and his affinity for veterans, I don't think Leopold will be on the third pairing.
I think that is what some people don't understand. If we thought Leopold and Polak would be the 3rd pairing we would not be as against him coming back at all. I think Leopold would be ok as a 3rd pairing guy with Polak. I do not think he should be on our second pairing with Shattenkirk.

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07-02-2013, 12:56 PM
  #34
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I doubt there will be a significant difference in cost between Leo and Russell. Leo can bring a few things better than Russell can, but rarely will those things be the difference in the outcome of the game. Like I was saying before, Leo's leadership and chemistry with the team is what is getting him another contract. I think they need to try and Leo-Polak pairing. Shattenkirk will now of had two season to put on the extra muscle and gain experience to play a good two way game with Jackman.

I'm surprised Russell had no trade value, he is a smart player that can skate very well. Now that he has been waived I dont see us trading for a goalie. I think our most likely tandem is Elliott/Allen and I think Allen will most likely supersede Elliott as the "1a" during next season.

I wonder what happens if we don't resign Leo?

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Old
07-02-2013, 01:57 PM
  #35
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I doubt there will be a significant difference in cost between Leo and Russell. Leo can bring a few things better than Russell can, but rarely will those things be the difference in the outcome of the game. Like I was saying before, Leo's leadership and chemistry with the team is what is getting him another contract. I think they need to try and Leo-Polak pairing. Shattenkirk will now of had two season to put on the extra muscle and gain experience to play a good two way game with Jackman.

I'm surprised Russell had no trade value, he is a smart player that can skate very well. Now that he has been waived I dont see us trading for a goalie. I think our most likely tandem is Elliott/Allen and I think Allen will most likely supersede Elliott as the "1a" during next season.

I wonder what happens if we don't resign Leo?
Good points the Pietrangelo situation should also not be overlooked here. If Petro is standing pat at his high number then it makes sense for Armstrong to cancel out whatever contract he had sitting on the table for Russell to create breathing room. Essentially, the Russell contract is the amount of room between what Armstrong wants to pay Petro (and budgeted) vs. what he wants.

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Old
07-02-2013, 02:03 PM
  #36
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Good points the Pietrangelo situation should also not be overlooked here. If Petro is standing pat at his high number then it makes sense for Armstrong to cancel out whatever contract he had sitting on the table for Russell to create breathing room. Essentially, the Russell contract is the amount of room between what Armstrong wants to pay Petro (and budgeted) vs. what he wants.
I think Russell will cost half what Leo would cost. It seems like a waste of money to pay Leo twice as much IMO. I think for 3rd pairing depth it's stupid to invest around 3 million on a guy.

I personally think with the uncertainty of the Pietrangelo contract we should shave pay role in spots we can. IE go with the cheaper 3rd pairing guy.

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Old
07-02-2013, 02:08 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by TheOrganist View Post
Leopold was 100% not an upgrade over Russell with the way Russell was playing at the trade deadline after he had fully recovered from the injury he suffered during the lockout.

I'm sure he was being tough during negotiations because of the way the situation played out. He would've signed for 2-3 years at ~$1.5 had Leopold not been acquired. That will probably be a $1.5 savings over what Leopold will command on a two or three year deal.

With Leopold and Shattenkirk not looking like a proper match, the Blues will be allocating a good deal of money to a 3rd pairing defenseman when they already had a really good one that would've made significantly less.
This.

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07-02-2013, 02:09 PM
  #38
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A couple assumptions too far with the Pietro logic here. Let's at least see if Leopold signs and for what. You could just as easily argue that this demonstrates the team is willing to spend up to the Cap if necessary to get the best roster they can.

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Old
07-02-2013, 02:10 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
A couple assumptions too far with the Pietro logic here. Let's at least see if Leopold signs and for what. You could just as easily argue that this demonstrates the team is willing to spend up to the Cap if necessary to get the best roster they can.
Russell vs Leopold could be the difference in signing a center.

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Old
07-02-2013, 02:16 PM
  #40
taylord22
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
A couple assumptions too far with the Pietro logic here. Let's at least see if Leopold signs and for what. You could just as easily argue that this demonstrates the team is willing to spend up to the Cap if necessary to get the best roster they can.
Valid point, but in all honesty...how can Pietrangelo not factor into every decision that's made this summer? His contract is going to be large enough that it will essentially be policing every move we make this summer until it is defined.


Last edited by taylord22: 07-02-2013 at 02:22 PM.
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Old
07-02-2013, 02:21 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Russell fills the 3rd pairing slot fine. I was hoping our defense would look like this

J-Bow Pietrangelo
Jackman Shattenkirk
Russell Polak
Cole
This is an incredibly solid group of defenseman. Too bad.

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Old
07-02-2013, 02:27 PM
  #42
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I'm fine with Leopold as long as he's 3rd pairing with Polak.

Same with Cole.

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07-02-2013, 02:31 PM
  #43
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Good news for Leopold/Cole.

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Old
07-02-2013, 03:16 PM
  #44
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Clearly Armstrong has a plan for the offseason and clearly we are just guessing at this point. There seem to be an extraordinary number of moving parts in the equation, and honestly until we see the other parts it's incredibly tough to judge. It's definitely the most intriguing Blues offseason in many years. We all sense something big is coming (which we hope we like) but I think we just have to let it play out a bit further. To pass the time, I recommend going hiking in the high Colorado Rockies in a town where nearly all the women are fit and hot.

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Old
07-02-2013, 04:35 PM
  #45
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They could be budgeting Cole in the top 6 to be able to afford Pie and Leo and Russell will be gone.

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Old
07-02-2013, 04:42 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
I think the Leopold hate is out of control. He's not going to be on the top pairing, but he's still an upgrade for the team over what they had before he came. I'd like to see him with a consistent partner, training camp and a chance to actually integrate into the system with practices before listening to all this "Leopold suck" drivel. He had a few really good games right after the trade, but I don't think he ever got comfortable with the system or learned his teammates well enough to know when to pinch or not. But that's not a fundamental issue. Its something that he'll develop with more familiarity with the team.

(For that matter, I think we haven't seen the best from Bouwmeester yet either.)
Easily this. I can understand that people wanted more from him, but he was not bad.

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Old
07-02-2013, 04:46 PM
  #47
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Are people really "pissed off" about this? No matter who they keep between Leopold and Russell, the difference between the two in not near large enough to ever lose sleep over. Not a big deal, they are essentially the same player (mobile skaters, can move the puck well but won't put up a lot of points, somewhat underrated defensively, not overly physical but don't shy away from it at all). Leopold is basically just a bigger, more experienced version than Russell. And FWIW, I think this team might need Leopold more than Russell. Leopold is the better player by a slight margin (Russell is nothing special, don't kid yourself), and our team has gotten even YOUNGER with Nichol, McDonald and probably Langenbrunner gone. If anything, having Leopold in the locker room is probably enough to give him the nod over Russell, and I would feel better to still have a vet like him. You need leadership.

I would have liked to have at least traded Russell for a pick before the draft, but at the beginning of the season everyone was bashing on him. If he does get claimed, we aren't losing much.

If Hitchcock is smart he'll go with these pairing (assuming Leopold comes back now):

Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo
Jackman-Shattenkirk
Leopold-Polak
Cole

Yeah, let's get pissed off at Armstrong for building one of the best defenses in the entire league. Get real.

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Old
07-02-2013, 04:49 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
I think Russell will cost half what Leo would cost. It seems like a waste of money to pay Leo twice as much IMO. I think for 3rd pairing depth it's stupid to invest around 3 million on a guy.

I personally think with the uncertainty of the Pietrangelo contract we should shave pay role in spots we can. IE go with the cheaper 3rd pairing guy.
I bet we can sign Leopold for a shorter contract than Russell, which in the long run might be more important.

If we sign Leopold for $3M then I will be questioning Armstrong heavily. $2.25-2.5M for 1-2 years would work well IMO.

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07-02-2013, 04:52 PM
  #49
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They could be budgeting Cole in the top 6 to be able to afford Pie and Leo and Russell will be gone.
This was another thought I had. Or they are lowing the defensive budget to spend more on a forward.

I personally think we could sign a guy to a smaller contract as Russell and still get the same level of productivity.

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07-02-2013, 04:53 PM
  #50
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Also, several other defensemen are on waivers. Matt Hunwick, Keith Ballard, Greg Zanon, Hal Gill.

Russell fits right into that group. He's not that great. He's fast as lightning but for an "offensive defenseman" he never scores points.

Plus, I'm not sure this had anything to do with it, but I think the Blues knew Nichol and Russell would have been as useless against LA as McDonald was. They're just too small and I'm happy to move on from all of them.

Leopold is a better option at this point. Hopefully we can get him signed for around 2.5 which probably isn't much more than what Russell was asking for.

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