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Mogilny's 76g season vs Selanne's 76g season

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Old
07-10-2012, 12:17 AM
  #1
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Mogilny's 76g season vs Selanne's 76g season

Who was better in their 76g seasons? And do you think anyone will ever beat their records?

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07-10-2012, 12:32 AM
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CTU2fan
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Both great seasons. I'd call Teemu's a little more impressive if only because he was I think a year younger when he did it, and it was his rookie season while I believe Mogilny exploded for 76 in his 4th (?) season.

Also I'm trying to think of who their linemates would have been. I want to say Mogilny with LaFontaine and maybe the LW was Andreychuk? and I guess Teemu with maybe Zhamnov and Tkachuk? Not a huge difference their; LaFontaine was the overall better C but Zhamnov was a fine passer and playmaker.

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07-10-2012, 12:33 AM
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Selanne was a rookie...I believe that was the only record about it?

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07-10-2012, 01:01 AM
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It's an interesting question. Obviously they both did it in the crazy 1992-93 season, which removes that effect from consideration.

Points in Mogilny's favor:

-did it in less games played.
-didn't have a great puck-moving quarterback on the back end like Phil Housley (note: I mean strictly in the offensive sense) distributing the puck to him.

Points in Selanne's favor:

-was a rookie.
-didn't play with anyone as good as Lafontaine; he was easily his team's leading scorer, whereas Mogilny finished well behind Lafontaine.
-(related to the previous point) the gap between Selanne and his team's #2 scorer (Housley) was the basically same as the gap between Mogilny and his team's #3 scorer (Hawerchuk).

I'd lean towards Selanne, but it's close. Perhaps some analysis of the relative quality of the conferences/schedules would be useful here.

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07-10-2012, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTU2fan View Post
Also I'm trying to think of who their linemates would have been. I want to say Mogilny with LaFontaine and maybe the LW was Andreychuk? and I guess Teemu with maybe Zhamnov and Tkachuk? Not a huge difference their; LaFontaine was the overall better C but Zhamnov was a fine passer and playmaker.
In theory, there is actually a huge difference between Zhamnov (47 assists) and Lafontaine (95 assists).

However, Selanne is not really dependant on having an elite center on his side. He has won the goal scoring title and been 2nd in Art Ross race with Steve Rucchin as his center.

Phil Housley (79 assists) was the big factor in Selanne's 76 goals, though. Having a defenceman with great leading and breakout pass ability is more crucial to players like Selanne than having an elite center.

At 1992-93 Mogilny was likely a bit better as an overall player than Selanne who was more one dimensional player during his first three seasons than during his later seasons, especially during 1997, 98, 99, when he was a better player for sure.

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07-10-2012, 08:02 AM
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jepjepjoo
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Originally Posted by CTU2fan View Post
Both great seasons. I'd call Teemu's a little more impressive if only because he was I think a year younger when he did it, and it was his rookie season while I believe Mogilny exploded for 76 in his 4th (?) season.

Also I'm trying to think of who their linemates would have been. I want to say Mogilny with LaFontaine and maybe the LW was Andreychuk? and I guess Teemu with maybe Zhamnov and Tkachuk? Not a huge difference their; LaFontaine was the overall better C but Zhamnov was a fine passer and playmaker.
Zhamnov 72 points
Tkachuk 51 points
vs
LaFontaine 148points
Adreychuk 61 points in 52 games

That's a huge difference. Selanne had more goals than either of his linemates had points while Mogilny was outscored by his linemate.

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07-10-2012, 11:17 AM
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Going with Selanne on this one. 76 goals is pretty impressive for anyone especially a rookie.

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07-10-2012, 11:23 AM
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vadim sharifijanov
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the eye test tells me mogilny was the better player in '93.

playmaking: even though selanne ended up with more assists, mogilny was easily the better playmaker and offensive creator back then. obviously, selanne would hit a level mogilny never hit about five years later.

defensively: probably not worth getting into. neither is a factor. selanne was more of a "cherry picker," but that makes sense being that he had the elite PMD while mogilny had the superstar center. i don't think you can necessarily fault either player for who he played with, but i think that affected how each guy got his goals.

goal scoring: wash. mogilny had the second best wrist shot in the game (after mario, who was and remains the GOAT) and was a thoroughbred sniper in every sense of the word. selanne had probably the best straight-ahead speed in the game and found open ice with ease.

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07-10-2012, 11:41 AM
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I find Selanne's to be more impressive because he didn't have awesome chemistry with a center like Lafontaine, and also because he was a first year player.

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07-10-2012, 11:50 AM
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vadim sharifijanov
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i'm not sure i would give any bonus points to selanne for being a rookie. he was a very old rookie (22), older than bure, the same age as roenick. he and mogilny were born a year apart and at 22/23 i don't think that age difference means much.

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07-10-2012, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
Zhamnov 72 points
Tkachuk 51 points
vs
LaFontaine 148points
Adreychuk 61 points in 52 games

That's a huge difference. Selanne had more goals than either of his linemates had points while Mogilny was outscored by his linemate.
mogilny in 93 wasn't made by lafontaine as you're implying here to try to make your own guy look better, he scored those goals because he was a supreme talent which is the same reason as why selšnne scored his goals, you would know that if you actually watched mogilny play that year or the year he scored 55 goals in vancouver

selšnne's situation with the jets were ideal for him as a goal scorer as he was the man and put in every single position to score, compare that to his situation in anaheim where he was constantly outshot by his own linemate

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07-10-2012, 01:13 PM
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jepjepjoo
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Originally Posted by the edler View Post
mogilny in 93 wasn't made by lafontaine as you're implying here to try to make your own guy look better, he scored those goals because he was a supreme talent which is the same reason as why selšnne scored his goals, you would know that if you actually watched mogilny play that year or the year he scored 55 goals in vancouver

selšnne's situation with the jets were ideal for him as a goal scorer as he was the man and put in every single position to score, compare that to his situation in anaheim where he was constantly outshot by his own linemate
Oh, I'm implying am I? More like you are assuming... That post was a reply to a post where the poster said they had equal linemates which they obviously didn't have.

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07-10-2012, 06:24 PM
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Teemu was the clear winner for the first all star team: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=104

36 1st spots for Teemu. 9 for Mogilny.

I think that's pretty telling.

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07-10-2012, 10:29 PM
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vadim sharifijanov
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Originally Posted by tomi2 View Post
Teemu was the clear winner for the first all star team: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=104

36 1st spots for Teemu. 9 for Mogilny.

I think that's pretty telling.
i think that's more a case of selanne playing out of his mind in the second half of the season. in the first half, mogilny (and mario and bure) flirted with 50 in 50. mogilny actually hit 50 in in his 46th game, but he missed a few games and it was after the team's 50th.

you see this a lot (e.g. thornton over jagr for the hart) where the guy who was hot down the stretch gets votes over the guy who was steadily great all season.

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07-10-2012, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Slapshooter View Post
In theory, there is actually a huge difference between Zhamnov (47 assists) and Lafontaine (95 assists).

However, Selanne is not really dependant on having an elite center on his side. He has won the goal scoring title and been 2nd in Art Ross race with Steve Rucchin as his center.

Phil Housley (79 assists) was the big factor in Selanne's 76 goals, though. Having a defenceman with great leading and breakout pass ability is more crucial to players like Selanne than having an elite center.

At 1992-93 Mogilny was likely a bit better as an overall player than Selanne who was more one dimensional player during his first three seasons than during his later seasons, especially during 1997, 98, 99, when he was a better player for sure.
That is a massive disparity, Zhamnov vs. Lafontaine. It's really splitting hairs when you try to compare these 2 guys. For me even though Mogilny may have been a bit better, it's incredibly impressive that Selanne did what he did with zero NHL experience, and while he's not a young 18-year-old rookie, he didn't have the 3 seasons of experience that Mogilny had at the time.

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07-10-2012, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
the eye test tells me mogilny was the better player in '93.

playmaking: even though selanne ended up with more assists, mogilny was easily the better playmaker and offensive creator back then. obviously, selanne would hit a level mogilny never hit about five years later.

defensively: probably not worth getting into. neither is a factor. selanne was more of a "cherry picker," but that makes sense being that he had the elite PMD while mogilny had the superstar center. i don't think you can necessarily fault either player for who he played with, but i think that affected how each guy got his goals.

goal scoring: wash. mogilny had the second best wrist shot in the game (after mario, who was and remains the GOAT) and was a thoroughbred sniper in every sense of the word. selanne had probably the best straight-ahead speed in the game and found open ice with ease.
Sakic??

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07-11-2012, 12:14 AM
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I don't have enough knowledge to say one or the other, but why does Teemu being a rookie have anything to do with who was better that season?

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07-11-2012, 03:50 AM
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I don't have enough knowledge to say one or the other, but why does Teemu being a rookie have anything to do with who was better that season?
Really shouldnt. But it's pretty much the same people think when a rookie aged 18 scores 50 points and a rookies aged 20 scores 52 points. Many or most would say the 18 year old had a better season.

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07-11-2012, 05:45 AM
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Can it just be a tie? You can debate the relative merits of each player that year, i read the thread so fat and none of it is swaying toward either player to me. I call it Even.

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07-11-2012, 01:50 PM
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Phil's 76 goal season was better.

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07-11-2012, 08:28 PM
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Got to go with Selanne on this one. Mogilny had a fantastic season and he did it with wonderful chemistry with Lafontaine who I wish had played together with him longer. But that's just the thing, Lafontaine had a season where if not for Mario beating cancer he wins the Art Ross and who knows, maybe the Hart (yeah I know Gilmour was 2nd, but without Mario's votes they might have gone more with another top scorer).

So for linemates you have to automatically think Mogilny has the edge there. Not to take anything away from him, it just seems that Selanne was more individually dominant that year.

To answer the other question, do I think that 76 goals will ever be touched again? Yes. Post lockout Ovechkin hit 65 and Stamkos hit 60. Mario is retired but a full season in 1995-'96 and he likely scores over 76 goals. Crosby was on pace for 64 goals in 2010-'11. I know that it's no guarantee, but all you need is one giant season from a sniper. Selanne and Mogilny both never came near that number again. Mogilny had 55 and Selanne 52. Lower scoring era or not, they still didn't come close so even they just had that explosive season where all the stars aligned.

It isn't impossible to see Stamkos crack 70 goals if he gets the green light to do his thing which I think he did last year. Once he is hitting that neighbourhood a hot week and you never know. So yeah, someone hits 76 again if only once.

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07-11-2012, 08:33 PM
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The rink at the aud was miniscule. For a burner like Mogilny i always thought that probably hurt him. So, IMO, Mogilny's season was more impressive.

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07-12-2012, 07:56 AM
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Really shouldnt. But it's pretty much the same people think when a rookie aged 18 scores 50 points and a rookies aged 20 scores 52 points. Many or most would say the 18 year old had a better season.
It shouldn't? Well, I disagree. Any guy with zero NHL experience doing the same as a guy with several years of NHL experience deserves the nod without a question.

This is my general line of thinking, not just the homer in me talking.

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07-12-2012, 08:14 AM
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jepjepjoo
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i think that's more a case of selanne playing out of his mind in the second half of the season. in the first half, mogilny (and mario and bure) flirted with 50 in 50. mogilny actually hit 50 in in his 46th game, but he missed a few games and it was after the team's 50th.

you see this a lot (e.g. thornton over jagr for the hart) where the guy who was hot down the stretch gets votes over the guy who was steadily great all season.
Selanne actually scored 51 goals in his last 50 games.

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