HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

QC/SEA Expansion With Happy DET/CBJ (Alignment Options)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-03-2013, 03:57 AM
  #1
KevFu
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans
Country: United States
Posts: 3,843
vCash: 500
QC/SEA Expansion With Happy DET/CBJ (Alignment Options)

With 32 teams, you create eight divisions of four.
Since no one wants to go to the Western Conference, eliminate the Western Conference. Put a Western Division in each conference.

6 vs division team (18)
4 vs rest of conference (48)
4 vs "rival" division (16). A vs A, B vs B, C vs C, D vs D

MODEL 1
CAMPBELL
A- MON, TOR, QUE, OTT
B- NYI, NYR, NJD, BOS
C- WIN, MIN, COL, DAL
D- EDM, CAL, VAN, SEA

WALES
A- WAS, DET, CAR, NAS
B- PHI, PIT, CBJ, BUF
C- FLA, TB, CHI, STL
D- LA, ANA, SJ, PHX

MODEL 2:
CAMPBELL
A- MON, BOS, QUE, OTT
B- NYI, NYR, NJD, WAS
C- WIN, MIN, COL, DAL
D- EDM, CAL, VAN, SEA

WALES
A- TOR, DET, CHI, STL
B- PHI, PIT, CBJ, BUF
C- CAR, FLA, TB, NAS
D- LA, ANA, SJ, PHX

MODEL 3
CAMPBELL
A- MON, BOS, QUE, OTT
B- NYI, NYR, NJD, WAS
C- WIN, MIN, COL, DAL
D- EDM, CAL, VAN, SEA

WALES
A- TOR, DET, CAR, NAS
B- PHI, PIT, CBJ, BUF
C- FLA, TB, CHI, STL
D- LA, ANA, SJ, PHX


In Model 1 & Model 3
DET: 26 ETZ road games, 8 MT/PT games.
CBJ: 27 ETZ road games, 8 MT/PT games.

In Model 2:
DET: 25 ETZ road games, 8 MT/PT games.
CBJ: 27 ETZ road games, 8 MT/PT games.

KevFu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 04:28 AM
  #2
Joe T Choker
Roll Wide Roll
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Country: Italy
Posts: 23,283
vCash: 500
I think it's QC & a 2nd Toronto team sliding into the Central Division with Colorado

Colorado, San Jose, Phoenix, Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, Kings & Ducks
Nashville, Toronto 2, Quebec, Dallas, St Louis, Minnesota, Chicago & Winnepeg
Toronto, Montreal, Detroit, Boston, Buffalo, Ottawa, Florida & Tampa
New Jersey, NYR, NYI, Washington, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Carolina & CBJ

Joe T Choker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 04:58 AM
  #3
KevFu
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans
Country: United States
Posts: 3,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
I think it's QC & a 2nd Toronto team sliding into the Central Division with Colorado

Colorado, San Jose, Phoenix, Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, Kings & Ducks
Nashville, Toronto 2, Quebec, Dallas, St Louis, Minnesota, Chicago & Winnepeg
Toronto, Montreal, Detroit, Boston, Buffalo, Ottawa, Florida & Tampa
New Jersey, NYR, NYI, Washington, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Carolina & CBJ
Well, that one was easy, we did it weeks ago:

WALES
A- MON, BOS, OTT, QUE
B- NYI, NYR, NJD, WAS
C- WIN, MIN, CHI, STL
D- EDM, CAL, VAN, COL

CAMPBELL
A- TOR, MARK, DET, BUF
B- PHI, PIT, CAR, CBJ
C- FLA, TB, NASH, DAL
D- ANA, LA, SJ, PHX


Last edited by KevFu: 07-03-2013 at 05:05 AM.
KevFu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 05:05 AM
  #4
Joe T Choker
Roll Wide Roll
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Country: Italy
Posts: 23,283
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
Well, that one was so easy, we did it weeks ago.
I had no idea, I just don't want/like the idea of "NFL-ing" the NHL

4 divisions >>>>>>>>>>> 8 .... jmo though

Joe T Choker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 05:17 AM
  #5
KevFu
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans
Country: United States
Posts: 3,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
I had no idea, I just don't want/like the idea of "NFL-ing" the NHL

4 divisions >>>>>>>>>>> 8 .... jmo though
That's 100% true if we have 8 Mountain/Pacific time zones, 8 central, and 16 eastern time zone teams...

But it's Quebec and either Seattle or Markham/Hamilton that need teams; not Seattle and Houston (and COL playing nice and going Central).

The key part of the 8 divisions is the A vs A, B vs B, C vs C, D vs D being the ONLY games teams play out of conference.

For the PT/MT teams, it's virtually the same thing: They are going to have 4 or 5 games vs each other in the new alignment, and would play 6 vs three teams and 4 vs four teams in this model.

For the CTZ/ETZ teams, you mix up CTZ and ETZ so that no one or two ETZ team (CBJ, DET, MARK, etc) isn't stuck playing only a few road games in their time zones.

Each team basically has 19 opponents in their conference, playing 3 teams 6 times and 16 teams four times.
Instead of 15 teams in their conference, playing 7/8 each 4-5 times, and 7/8 only 2-3 times, and 2 vs everyone in the other conference.

It just replaces HALF games that "don't matter" (like VAN vs Carolina, Florida and Tampa) with more games that DO matter (like DET, CBJ vs Eastern Time Zone teams).

KevFu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 05:27 AM
  #6
KevFu
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans
Country: United States
Posts: 3,843
vCash: 500
Of course, the way for balance, Quebec and a Southern Ontario team joining is to add them and FOUR Western teams (like Seattle, Portland, Salt Lake, Houston)

East (All ETZ)
MON, BOS, OTT, QUE, TOR, DET
NYI, NYR, NJD, WAS, PHI, PIT
WAS, CAR, TB, FLA, CBJ, HAM

West
MIN, CHI, STL, NASH, DAL, HOU
EDM, CAL, VAN, SEA, PORT, WIN
ANA, LA, SJ, PHX, COL, SLC

KevFu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 07:34 AM
  #7
gstommylee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,241
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
I think it's QC & a 2nd Toronto team sliding into the Central Division with Colorado

Colorado, San Jose, Phoenix, Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, Kings & Ducks
Nashville, Toronto 2, Quebec, Dallas, St Louis, Minnesota, Chicago & Winnepeg
Toronto, Montreal, Detroit, Boston, Buffalo, Ottawa, Florida & Tampa
New Jersey, NYR, NYI, Washington, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Carolina & CBJ
Its not going to be a 2dn Tor team. No way they go witn 2 Canadian teams with seattle still available.

gstommylee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 07:48 AM
  #8
Joe T Choker
Roll Wide Roll
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Country: Italy
Posts: 23,283
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
Its not going to be a 2dn Tor team. No way they go witn 2 Canadian teams with seattle still available.
NYC area has 3 (45 minutes from Newark to Brooklyn), why doesn't the ACC have a 2nd team or 3rd team for that matter ? Staples has 3 Sports teams playing inside ... makes no sense to me and everyone else that's a fan of this sport ... LA has 2 teams (Anaheim is a 30.5 mile drive) from Staples to Honda... just my $ .02

Joe T Choker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 07:55 AM
  #9
IceAce
HEY BUD, LETS PARTY!
 
IceAce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 3,009
vCash: 300
I don't think you're going to see "mixed conferences". It works in the NFL because you only play one game a week, and it works in baseball because you stay in a city for 3-4 days, but with one off leagues like the NHL and NBA you sort of need that split otherwise the travel is going to be burdensome.

Based on the breakdown now, I think you'd be more likely to see expansion to two Western cities (Seattle, Portland, Houston, KC, etc.) than adding another team from the Northeast.

I only really see QC and Markham getting back in the league through a relocation of another Eastern Conference team. With Detroit and CBJ coming back to the Eastern Conference, the league is so East heavy at this point. Given Detroit's clout in the league, they arent going back West anytime soon either.


Last edited by IceAce: 07-03-2013 at 08:14 AM.
IceAce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 08:01 AM
  #10
Mightygoose
I Am Groot
 
Mightygoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ajax, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,339
vCash: 514
If it's SEA and QC added, I can see the league going back to 4 conference format that was approved in Dec 2011 and then shot down by the PA

Conf A: Van, Edm, Cgy, Phx, Sea, SJ, Ana, LA
Conf B: Wpg, Min, Chi, Stl, Dal, Nsh, Det, Col
Conf C: Tor, Ott, Mtl, QC, Buf, Bos, TB, Fla
Conf D: NYR, NYI, NJ, Phl, Pit, Was, Car, Cbj

Top 4 make the playoffs per conference - the PA won't have an issue since it will be balanced this time.

Mightygoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 08:05 AM
  #11
Crayton
Registered User
 
Crayton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: FLORIDA
Posts: 478
vCash: 500
Easy, if a 14-16 split is no problem, then a 15-17 split should be even easier. Just add Seattle to the Pacific/West and Quebec to the (North)East. At least then the wild-card system we are getting will have practical value with different sized divisions within the same conference.

But really, this is my vote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightygoose View Post
If it's SEA and QC added, I can see the league going back to 4 conference format that was approved in Dec 2011 and then shot down by the PA

Conf A: Van, Edm, Cgy, Phx, Sea, SJ, Ana, LA
Conf B: Wpg, Min, Chi, Stl, Dal, Nsh, Det, Col
Conf C: Tor, Ott, Mtl, QC, Buf, Bos, TB, Fla
Conf D: NYR, NYI, NJ, Phl, Pit, Was, Car, Cbj

Top 4 make the playoffs per conference - the PA won't have an issue since it will be balanced this time.

Crayton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 08:05 AM
  #12
powerstuck
User Registered
 
powerstuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Quebec City
Country: Palestine
Posts: 2,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
Its not going to be a 2dn Tor team. No way they go witn 2 Canadian teams with seattle still available.
Seen how Quebec was pushed aside as soon as Seattle installed a telephone...I doubt it's going to be Quebec anyway. Toronto has the money.

powerstuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 08:37 AM
  #13
SouthJerseyRanger
Registered User
 
SouthJerseyRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 1,050
vCash: 500
It wouldn't be NFL-izing the NHL... it's just math. I'll repost what I put here before.



6 games vs. division rivals = 18
4 games vs. conference rivals = 16
home-and-home against other conference teams = 48

18 + 16 + 48 = 82

Conference playoffs - Two division winners take 1/2 seeds, with the next two best records in the conference grabbing wild cards. (can be from same division). Top division winner plays bottom wild card based on record.

Four conference playoff winners reseeded based on record. Stanley Cup semifinal is 1 vs 4, 2 vs 3. Winners go onto the Final.

Some issues it solves, and some issues where it is not as bad as it seems.

-It restores a number of rivalry games. Chicago and Detroit meet 6 times. NJD/NYI/NYR play each other 6 times. LA/ANA, EDM/CAL, etc. Currently (2013-14 realignment), the larger division grouping means only 4 meetings between many strong rivals.

-PHI and PIT split up? Doesn't matter. Under the current system they will play 4 times most years. Same with this. Since playoffs are based within conferences, possibly of meeting in the playoffs is not squandered.

-Detroit will ultimately only see a few more CTZ games than they see now. They will have 57 ETZ games, 15 CTZ games, and 10 MTZ/PTZ games.

-Nashville, Chicago, and St. Louis all regain their biggest and most important rival.

-Creates a stronger two-level rivalry. 1998-2013, you had 4 division rivals and 14 conference rivals. You would now have 3 divisional opponents and 7 conference opponents. Rivalry games would mean more and become more heated.

-Smaller conference playoffs (from 8 to 4 participants) means continuing playoff rivalries are likely to develop.

-Creates balance throughout the league, as opposed to the current 14 West/16 East crap.

-the Florida teams are better served with Philly, Pitt, and NYC-area fans coming down the interstate, and attracting the former Northeasterners that live there already.

If the Red Wings throw such a fit over it that the whole thing is a non-starter, then shift Columbus back and keep Detroit in the NE. Either way... one of them is going to have to go eventually.

SouthJerseyRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 08:39 AM
  #14
King_Stannis
Registered User
 
King_Stannis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 711
vCash: 500
The only blessing to come out of the Glendale fiasco is that now I don't have to choose one city over the other. Hopefully expansion will come soon to both Seattle and Quebec City, two cities that are actuallly deserving of a team.

King_Stannis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 08:45 AM
  #15
SouthJerseyRanger
Registered User
 
SouthJerseyRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 1,050
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Stannis View Post
The only blessing to come out of the Glendale fiasco is that now I don't have to choose one city over the other. Hopefully expansion will come soon to both Seattle and Quebec City, two cities that are actuallly deserving of a team.
Plus, I honestly think it would be strange if the Winnipeg Jets (1972-1996) and the Quebec Nordiques (2013- ) were the same franchise.

SouthJerseyRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 08:48 AM
  #16
JmanWingsFan
Your average Jman
 
JmanWingsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere
Country: United States
Posts: 4,466
vCash: 500
I think the best thing that could happen to the NHL is if the two Florida franchises are sold to Seattle and Quebec, rather than having to start from scratch and ruining the league via expansion. It will be the only way to keep Detroit and Columbus happy while guaranteeing Seattle gets bonafide talent to actually attract fans into seeing what this hockey thing is.

JmanWingsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 08:55 AM
  #17
SouthJerseyRanger
Registered User
 
SouthJerseyRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 1,050
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
I think the best thing that could happen to the NHL is if the two Florida franchises are sold to Seattle and Quebec, rather than having to start from scratch and ruining the league via expansion. It will be the only way to keep Detroit and Columbus happy while guaranteeing Seattle gets bonafide talent to actually attract fans into seeing what this hockey thing is.
Florida is not moving. Maybe Tampa will go to Quebec eventually, but I don't think it's in the foreseeable future.

SouthJerseyRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 09:07 AM
  #18
JmanWingsFan
Your average Jman
 
JmanWingsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere
Country: United States
Posts: 4,466
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthJerseyRanger View Post
Florida is not moving. Maybe Tampa will go to Quebec eventually, but I don't think it's in the foreseeable future.
It's just an opinion of mine. Every time I go through realignment, it's always the Florida teams that mess things up, and neither of them really contribute much to the NHL in ways of revenue. It would be better if they were put in actual hockey markets. That way, you avoid expanding yourselves to death as well as the period where your team sucks because it's full of rejects and AHLers after the expansion draft.

JmanWingsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 09:27 AM
  #19
Crayton
Registered User
 
Crayton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: FLORIDA
Posts: 478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthJerseyRanger View Post
It wouldn't be NFL-izing the NHL... it's just math. I'll repost what I put here before.



6 games vs. division rivals = 18
4 games vs. conference rivals = 16
home-and-home against other conference teams = 48

18 + 16 + 48 = 82

Conference playoffs - Two division winners take 1/2 seeds, with the next two best records in the conference grabbing wild cards. (can be from same division). Top division winner plays bottom wild card based on record.

Four conference playoff winners reseeded based on record. Stanley Cup semifinal is 1 vs 4, 2 vs 3. Winners go onto the Final.

Some issues it solves, and some issues where it is not as bad as it seems.

-It restores a number of rivalry games. Chicago and Detroit meet 6 times. NJD/NYI/NYR play each other 6 times. LA/ANA, EDM/CAL, etc. Currently (2013-14 realignment), the larger division grouping means only 4 meetings between many strong rivals.

-PHI and PIT split up? Doesn't matter. Under the current system they will play 4 times most years. Same with this. Since playoffs are based within conferences, possibly of meeting in the playoffs is not squandered.

-Detroit will ultimately only see a few more CTZ games than they see now. They will have 57 ETZ games, 15 CTZ games, and 10 MTZ/PTZ games.

-Nashville, Chicago, and St. Louis all regain their biggest and most important rival.

-Creates a stronger two-level rivalry. 1998-2013, you had 4 division rivals and 14 conference rivals. You would now have 3 divisional opponents and 7 conference opponents. Rivalry games would mean more and become more heated.

-Smaller conference playoffs (from 8 to 4 participants) means continuing playoff rivalries are likely to develop.

-Creates balance throughout the league, as opposed to the current 14 West/16 East crap.

-the Florida teams are better served with Philly, Pitt, and NYC-area fans coming down the interstate, and attracting the former Northeasterners that live there already.

If the Red Wings throw such a fit over it that the whole thing is a non-starter, then shift Columbus back and keep Detroit in the NE. Either way... one of them is going to have to go eventually.
BINGO! Especially like your point about PIT-PHI only playing 4 times most years in the new alignment anyway.

Crayton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 09:39 AM
  #20
gstommylee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,241
vCash: 500
NHL wants seattle cause tv market.

gstommylee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 09:51 AM
  #21
No Fun Shogun
Global Moderator
34-38-61-10-13
 
No Fun Shogun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Country: Fiji
Posts: 25,079
vCash: 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthJerseyRanger View Post
It wouldn't be NFL-izing the NHL... it's just math. I'll repost what I put here before.



6 games vs. division rivals = 18
4 games vs. conference rivals = 16
home-and-home against other conference teams = 48

18 + 16 + 48 = 82
I'd actually be very much in favor of something along these lines.

No Fun Shogun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 09:55 AM
  #22
Shrimper
Trick or ruddy treat
 
Shrimper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Essex
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 68,722
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
NYC area has 3 (45 minutes from Newark to Brooklyn), why doesn't the ACC have a 2nd team or 3rd team for that matter ? Staples has 3 Sports teams playing inside ... makes no sense to me and everyone else that's a fan of this sport ... LA has 2 teams (Anaheim is a 30.5 mile drive) from Staples to Honda... just my $ .02
North West America has 0. There is a lot of potential to be tapped into there.

Shrimper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 10:07 AM
  #23
Jeffrey
Registered User
 
Jeffrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,619
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Jeffrey
Here is my less travel version:

Div 1: Toronto - Montreal - Ottawa - Quebec City
Div 2: Brooklyn - NYR - New Jersey - Boston
Div 3: Pittsburgh - Philadelphia - Columbus - Buffalo
Div 4: Washington - Carolina - Tampa Bay - Florida
Div 5: Nashville - St.Louis - Dallas - Colorado
Div 6: Detroit - Chicago - Minnesota - Winnipeg
Div 7: Seattle - Calgary - Edmonton - Vancouver
Div 8 : Phoenix - San Jose - Los Angeles - Anaheim

Jeffrey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 10:47 AM
  #24
Shoey
Hello.
 
Shoey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
Here is my less travel version:

Div 1: Toronto - Montreal - Ottawa - Quebec City
Div 2: Brooklyn - NYR - New Jersey - Boston
Div 3: Pittsburgh - Philadelphia - Columbus - Buffalo
Div 4: Washington - Carolina - Tampa Bay - Florida
Div 5: Nashville - St.Louis - Dallas - Colorado
Div 6: Detroit - Chicago - Minnesota - Winnipeg
Div 7: Seattle - Calgary - Edmonton - Vancouver
Div 8 : Phoenix - San Jose - Los Angeles - Anaheim
I like the premise here, but you separated 2 of the NHL's closest franchises in Buffalo and Toronto. With the prices at ACC, it's probably for the best that Toronto's more blue collar hockey fans have every opportunity to get down to watch a game in Buffalo as often as possible. It's a relationship that really helps both clubs.

Shoey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 11:26 AM
  #25
DatsyukToZetterberg
Alligator!
 
DatsyukToZetterberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Newfoundland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,117
vCash: 600
I don't see Detroit or Columbus agreeing to go back to the Western conference or a version of it. They've paid their dues in that conference & I don't see why they would move back for 1 or 2 expansion cities to have an easier time. I think it's more likely that Seattle/QC/Toronto 2 are in the Western conference. Depending on who gets in it could be both move into the central or 1 moves into the central & one is in the Pacific division.

DatsyukToZetterberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:59 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.