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QC/SEA Expansion With Happy DET/CBJ (Alignment Options)

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Old
07-03-2013, 12:54 PM
  #26
gstommylee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
I don't see Detroit or Columbus agreeing to go back to the Western conference or a version of it. They've paid their dues in that conference & I don't see why they would move back for 1 or 2 expansion cities to have an easier time. I think it's more likely that Seattle/QC/Toronto 2 are in the Western conference. Depending on who gets in it could be both move into the central or 1 moves into the central & one is in the Pacific division.
Not going to happen the whole point of the 4 division alignment was to reduce travel time/costs.

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07-03-2013, 12:57 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
I don't see Detroit or Columbus agreeing to go back to the Western conference or a version of it. They've paid their dues in that conference & I don't see why they would move back for 1 or 2 expansion cities to have an easier time. I think it's more likely that Seattle/QC/Toronto 2 are in the Western conference. Depending on who gets in it could be both move into the central or 1 moves into the central & one is in the Pacific division.
There would not be conference anymore. There will be 8 divisions just like the NFL or MLB. All teams will play against each others once but most teams will compete within their division (less travel, same time zone, less headache, more rivalry).

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07-03-2013, 01:10 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
Not going to happen the whole point of the 4 division alignment was to reduce travel time/costs.
No, the whole point of this year's alignment (and also the proposed alignment from December, 2011) was to keep teams from playing two or more timezones away on a regular basis. It's all about maximizing local television money. The side benefit is that it should reduce some travel costs.

I don't disagree too much with the alignment, schedule matrix and playoff format posted by SouthJerseyRanger, but would switch-up the Northeastern Conference:

Division A: Boston, Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec
Division B: Buffalo, Carolina, Columbus, Toronto

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07-03-2013, 01:27 PM
  #29
tony d
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Yeah, I think that by 2016 or 2017 you'll see expansion to 2 of Quebec City, Seattle and Houston. Then in 2018 Phoenix will relocate to the city that didn't get an expansion team.

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07-03-2013, 01:31 PM
  #30
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Just go back to the 2011-2012 proposal with the slots open in the Pacific and Northeast. Voila

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07-03-2013, 01:36 PM
  #31
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Nothing wrong with a 17-15 alignment.

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07-03-2013, 01:41 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by SouthJerseyRanger View Post
Florida is not moving. Maybe Tampa will go to Quebec eventually, but I don't think it's in the foreseeable future.
You're probably right, but it's amazing Florida is still there. Nobody is ever at their games. I watch the Penguins games they play down there on TV and you'd think that for at least those games and for a few of the more poplular opponents it'd be full, but it ain't. I just see a crapload of empty seats all the time whenever I see that arena.

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07-03-2013, 01:42 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by King_Stannis View Post
You're probably right, but it's amazing Florida is still there. Nobody is ever at their games. I watch the Penguins games they play down there on TV and you'd think that for at least those games and for a few of the more poplular opponents it'd be full, but it ain't. I just see a crapload of empty seats all the time whenever I see that arena.
This is a little OT, but that's because while many people keep crying that the NHL is a "gate-driven league!!!!", the reality is that, for some owners, the NHL team is a loss leader.

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07-03-2013, 03:49 PM
  #34
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HEY, HEY, HEY.... Nobody invited me to the party. I'm upset.
Be back in a moment.

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07-03-2013, 03:49 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by IceAce View Post
I don't think you're going to see "mixed conferences". It works in the NFL because you only play one game a week, and it works in baseball because you stay in a city for 3-4 days, but with one off leagues like the NHL and NBA you sort of need that split otherwise the travel is going to be burdensome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
Here is my less travel version:
"Travel" is just an excuse and basically a load of crap. The number of times you play an opponent doesn't dictate how much travel you have; the ORDER in which you play your opponents matters far more:

For example if Vancouver plays LA/ANA twice each in one week, how much are they traveling? Depends:
@ANA, @LA, LA, ANA = 2576 miles but @ANA, LA, @LA, ANA = 5183 miles.

It's actually EASIER to schedule for travel in this method. Vancouver would actually visit LESS ETZ cities this way.

What's more travel? @CAR, @WAS, @TB, @FLA or @TB, @TB, @FLA, @FLA ? Playing TB/FLA twice and CAR/WAS not at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
I think the best thing that could happen to the NHL is if the two Florida franchises are sold to Seattle and Quebec, rather than having to start from scratch and ruining the league via expansion. It will be the only way to keep Detroit and Columbus happy while guaranteeing Seattle gets bonafide talent to actually attract fans into seeing what this hockey thing is.
Welcome to the real world where teams have leases and contracts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
It's just an opinion of mine. Every time I go through realignment, it's always the Florida teams that mess things up, and neither of them really contribute much to the NHL in ways of revenue. It would be better if they were put in actual hockey markets. That way, you avoid expanding yourselves to death as well as the period where your team sucks because it's full of rejects and AHLers after the expansion draft.
The Cap dilutes the talent much more than expansion.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Crayton View Post
Easy, if a 14-16 split is no problem, then a 15-17 split should be even easier.
Yeah, but this thread was the response to the "The teams in the East won't go for it, because no one wants to be in the Western Conference" argument, hence the title.

If DET just sucks it up and heads back to the WC, everything gravy.

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07-03-2013, 03:53 PM
  #36
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Phoenix is "saved" for 5 years. They will be relocated before any expansion happens imo.

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07-03-2013, 04:05 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Phoenix is "saved" for 5 years. They will be relocated before any expansion happens imo.
That is not necessarily true. Expansion will happen no matter where coyotes end up 5 years from now.

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07-03-2013, 04:15 PM
  #38
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Hitting the ground running,... here's two quick versions:

Option 1
Conference A
Div 1 - MON, BOS, QUE, OTT
Div 2 - NYI, NYR, NJD, PHI
Div 3 - STL, COL, CHI, DAL
Div 4 - EDM, CAL, VAN, SEA

Conference B
Div 1 - TOR, DET WIN, MIN
Div 2 - CAR, FLA, TBL, WAS
Div 3 - PIT, CLB, BUF, NAS
Div 4 - LAK, ANA, SJS, PHX

Option 2
Conference A
Div 1 - MON, BOS, QUE, BUF
Div 2 - NYI, NYR, NJD, WAS
Div 3 - STL, COL, WIN, MIN
Div 4 - EDM, CAL, VAN, SEA

Conference B
Div 1 - TOR, DET, OTT, CHI
Div 2 - PHI, PIT, CLB, CAR
Div 3 - DAL, FLA, TBL, NAS
Div 4 - LAK, ANA, SJS, PHX

Schedule Matrix:
18 games = six vs Division
48 games = four vs Conference
*8 games = two vs cross-Conference rival Division
Remaining games, 2 options:
8 games = two vs 4 other Conference teams, rotating around from one Season to the next.
or
8 games = one vs 8 other Conference teams, rotating around from one Season to the next.
82 Total

* Cross-Conference rival Divisions are Div 1 vs Div 1, Div 2 vs Div 2, etc.

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Old
07-03-2013, 04:16 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Phoenix is "saved" for 5 years. They will be relocated before any expansion happens imo.
God forgive us all but I hope I never witness this crap again. It's done ? Cool...next book.

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Old
07-03-2013, 04:21 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
I don't see Detroit or Columbus agreeing to go back to the Western conference or a version of it. They've paid their dues in that conference & I don't see why they would move back for 1 or 2 expansion cities to have an easier time. I think it's more likely that Seattle/QC/Toronto 2 are in the Western conference. Depending on who gets in it could be both move into the central or 1 moves into the central & one is in the Pacific division.
totally agree

I never understand why people suggest these scenarios where detroit and columbus get shafted in favour of new teams to the league.

its like when the leafs finally got out of the west. good luck convincing them to go back and play half of their games out of their time zone.

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07-03-2013, 04:21 PM
  #41
Buck Aki Berg
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Nothing wrong with a 17-15 alignment.
Except for the fact that uneven conferences are apparently worse than earthquakes, herpes, and room-temperature beer put together.

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Old
07-03-2013, 04:30 PM
  #42
Brodie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
If DET just sucks it up and heads back to the WC, everything gravy.
Why don't we send the Islanders out there and see how their fans like it?


Last edited by Brodie: 07-03-2013 at 05:03 PM.
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Old
07-03-2013, 04:49 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthJerseyRanger View Post
It wouldn't be NFL-izing the NHL...
What KevFu, and myself, posted, isn't "NFL-izing" the NHL. Look at those Divisions in his and my options, those are not NFL-style Divisions.

However, taking your perspective on it, and screwing over Detroit or Columbus, I'd make different Divisions than yours
Quote:
:

EASTERN Conference Option 1
Div 1 - MON, BOS, QUE, OTT
Div 2 - NYI, NYR, NJD, PHI
Div 3 - PIT, CLB, BUF, TOR
Div 4 - FLA, TBL, CAR, WAS

EASTERN Conference Option 2
Div 1 - MON, OTT, QUE, TOR
Div 2 - NYI, NYR, NJD, BOS
Div 3 - CLB, BUF, PHI, PIT
Div 4 - FLA, TBL, CAR, WAS

Western Conference Option 1
Div 1 - CHI, DET, WIN, MIN
Div 2 - STL, COL, NAS, DAL
Div 3 - EDM, CAL, VAN, SEA
Div 4 - LAK, ANA, SJS, PHX

Western Conference Option 2
Div 1 - CHI, DET, NAS, DAL
Div 2 - STL, COL, MIN, WIN
Div 3 - EDM, CAL, VAN, SEA
Div 4 - LAK, ANA, SJS, PHX

Scheduling Matrix
18 games = 6 vs Division
48 games = 4 vs Conference
16 games = 1 vs all the teams in the other Conference.
82 Total


Last edited by MoreOrr: 07-03-2013 at 05:27 PM.
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Old
07-03-2013, 05:13 PM
  #44
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SouthJerseyRanger's solution makes too much sense.

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07-03-2013, 05:15 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
Why don't we send the Islanders out there and see how their fans like it?
This would be an extremely valid response to someone advocating the Red Wings (or whomever) get shipped West against their will so we can expand into QUE/SEA...

... except I'm the guy who made this thread about "How to do it WITHOUT shipping DET/CBJ/whomever West against their will" and offered a number of creative options for discussion (none of which have actually been discussed; hence my "if DET sucks it up" comment was in response to replies that go against the reason this thread exists.)

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07-03-2013, 05:17 PM
  #46
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And for all of those who'd be content with a 15/17 split:

Western Conference
DIV A
Vancouver, Seattle, San Jose, Los Angeles, Anaheim
DIV B
Phoenix, Colorado, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg
DIV C
Minnesota, Chicago, St Louis, Dallas, Nashville

Eastern Conference
DIV A
Quebec City, Montreal, Boston, NY Islanders, NY Rangers, New Jersey
DIV B
Ottawa, Toronto, Buffalo, Detroit, Columbus
DIV C
Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Washington, Carolina, Tampa Bay, Florida

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07-03-2013, 05:19 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by The CyNick View Post
I never understand why people suggest these scenarios where detroit and columbus get shafted in favour of new teams to the league.

its like when the leafs finally got out of the west. good luck convincing them to go back and play half of their games out of their time zone.
That's what this thread is all about. How to do it without having a Western Conference of 15 teams in the PT/MT/CT zones... AND Detroit or Columbus!

Creativity people. Pick an idea and say why teams in the league would be upset with it.

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07-03-2013, 05:30 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
That's what this thread is all about. How to do it without having a Western Conference of 15 teams in the PT/MT/CT zones... AND Detroit or Columbus!

Creativity people. Pick an idea and say why teams in the league would be upset with it.
The only way no teams would be upset if it was two western expansion leaving quebec for relocation of a eastern side team

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Old
07-03-2013, 05:33 PM
  #49
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My version of divisions only with scheduling matrix:

Pacific Northwest Division
Vancouver
Seattle
Edmonton
Calgary

Pacific Southwest Division:
Phoenix
Los Angeles
Anaheim
San Jose

Prairie Division
Chicago
Winnipeg
Colorado
Minnesota

Mid-West Division
Dallas
Nashville
St. Louis
Columbus

Great Lakes Division
Detroit
Buffalo
Toronto
Ottawa

Atlantic Northeast Division
Montreal
Brooklyn
Boston
Quebec City

Mid-Atlantic Division
New York
New Jersey
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh

Atlantic South Division
Washington
Carolina
Tampa Bay
Florida

Schedule Matrix:
Non-divisional games: 2 games each for 56 games
Divisional games: 8 games each for 24 games
Extras: Established rivalries (non-divisional opponents) 2 games
Total regular season games: 82 games (80 games if you scrap Extras from the schedule matrix)

Playoffs: Top 2 in each division make the playoffs with all first round being the best of 7 divisional playoff series

Second Round: Establish the play-off seeding from #1 to #8 after divisional series winner emerges.

Play on until Stanley Cup Final.


Last edited by coolboarder: 07-03-2013 at 05:45 PM. Reason: Two Ottawas
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Old
07-03-2013, 05:44 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolboarder View Post
My version of divisions only with scheduling matrix:

Pacific Northwest Division
Vancouver
Seattle
Edmonton
Calgary

Pacific Southwest Division:
Phoenix
Los Angeles
Anaheim
San Jose

Prairie Division
Chicago
Winnipeg
Colorado
Minnesota

Mid-West Division
Dallas
Nashville
St. Louis
Columbus

Great Lakes Division
Detroit
Buffalo
Toronto
Ottawa

Atlantic Northeast Division
Montreal
Ottawa
Boston
Quebec City

Mid-Atlantic Division
New York
New Jersey
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh

Atlantic South Division
Washington
Carolina
Tampa Bay
Florida
May I ask what happened with one of the NYC teams, and why there are two Ottawas?

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