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My Leafs- Post CBA

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Old
06-10-2005, 01:25 PM
  #51
Leaf Army
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
80 points +/- 10
What do you know? You can't even spell the name of your own team's starting goalie. Work on your knowledge of the Sens first and then come back.

Besides all you're doing is continuing the line. Comments like this remind me of all the people who came on here last year telling us we wouldn't make the playoffs. Just more of the same I guess.

So if you want to make anymore bold predictions go right ahead. They'll be fun to look back on at the end of the year.

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06-10-2005, 01:35 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Army
What do you know? You can't even spell the name of your own team's starting goalie. Work on your knowledge of the Sens first and then come back.

Besides all you're doing is continuing the line. Comments like this remind me of all the people who came on here last year telling us we wouldn't make the playoffs. Just more of the same I guess.

So if you want to make anymore bold predictions go right ahead. They'll be fun to look back on at the end of the year.
Speaking of Hasek ..

Came accross this article

Quote:

Hasek 'wants to play'
June 8 @ 9:45 AM

If there's a 2005 hockey season, then the Dominator will be between the pipes for the Senators.

Dominik Hasek's agent, Rich Winter, told the Ottawa Sun that Hasek is committed to playing again and he is at home in the Czech Republic preparing for the new season.
"Dominik Hasek made a commitment to (Senators GM) John Muckler that he would play for the Senators if there's a new CBA in place and he plans to fulfill that commitment," Winter told the Sun. "His plans haven't changed."

The Senators plan to pick up the $2 million (all terms US) option on Hasek's contract after the lockout has officially ended. That means on top of his base salary, Hasek would have the opportunity to earn as much $6.1 million if he backstops the Senators to the Stanley Cup.
$6.1 Mil thats more then Belfour makes and could be very tough to fit in a Cap world for the Sens ..

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06-10-2005, 01:38 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Speaking of Hasek ..

Came accross this article


$6.1 Mil thats more then Belfour makes and could be very tough to fit in a Cap world for the Sens ..
And it doesn't matter whether or not he actually cashes in that much. All indications are that performance bonuses will be pro-rated into the cap.

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Old
06-10-2005, 01:41 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Speaking of Hasek ..

Came accross this article


$6.1 Mil thats more then Belfour makes and could be very tough to fit in a Cap world for the Sens ..
UNDER CONTRACT (9):

Goal: Dominik Hasek.
Defence: Zdeno Chara, Greg de Vries, Chris Phillips, Wade Redden.
Forward: Daniel Alfredsson, Peter Schaefer, Bryan Smolinski, Vaclav Varada.



UNDER CONTRACT (8):

Goal: Ed Belfour.
Defence: Tomas Kaberle, Ken Klee, Bryan McCabe.
Forward: Owen Nolan, Matt Stajan, Mats Sundin, Darcy Tucker.


All these players have to be included on the Cap figures unless the player files retirement papers, which Hasek will not do.

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06-10-2005, 01:47 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar
And it doesn't matter whether or not he actually cashes in that much. All indications are that performance bonuses will be pro-rated into the cap.
I left that un-said so Thunderstruck was going to step in it, in his next response.

But educating him up front can't hurt either as it keeps his clutter to minimum on a Leafs board

Also performance bonus are not rolled back 24% either just his 2 mil base will be so that makes Eddie much more cap friendly in the new NHL ..


Quote:

The Post has learned that the league's offer of a $42.5M team ceiling — featured the following elements that the NHL did not release to the public when it plastered the proposal on its various web sites:

All annual individual signing bonuses contained in contracts.
All personal achievement bonus payouts.
All contract buyouts.
All annual signing bonuses for players in Entry Level System
All players on Injured Reserve.
All players in minor leagues earning over $75,000.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/41703.htm


Last edited by Mess: 06-10-2005 at 06:25 PM.
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Old
06-10-2005, 01:48 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Army
If you want to put your money on teams like Carolina, Phoenix, Florida and Washington that's your business but I'll stick with the Leafs thanks.

Umm....no of course not. I always thought you were a Leaf fan.
Washington and Florida, in 2-3 years have the potential to be powerhouse teams ...Carolina not too bad also, Phoenix, I cant say ...but Toronto will either continue to ice a competitive team (made up of vets/free agents), but never good enough to win, but, makes alot of money or drop everyone and rebuild properly. ...the true Leaf fans will still stick with them ...I was able to swallow the Ballard years, how much worse can rebuilding be?

...I'm a fan, but, I'm really drawing a blank on that playoff series ...must be the heat.

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Old
06-10-2005, 01:57 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Is that not what Bettman's new CBA is all about ..

Well if you listen to the 80% pro-owners group in the PR battle that is all they are concerned about $$$ .. The poor billionaire owners need to make money??

Go check the Business of Hockey board, for all the colourful attacks against the players and the NHLPA .."beaten down, greedy players are getting it stuck to them" etc etc ...
Yes, the poor billionaire owners need to make money, that's the main reason to own a team ...they arent fans first, they are businessmen, and the players are employees.

If you own a business and the employees make more money than you do and the company loses money year after year, what would you do?

A) Lower saleries, cut your expenses and try to make some profit
B) file for bankrupcy
C) continue to overpay you employees and lose money for tax writeoff purposes

...sorry but "C" just doesnt cut it.

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06-10-2005, 02:01 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte
If you own a business and the employees make more money than you do and the company loses money year after year, what would you do?

A) Lower saleries, cut your expenses and try to make some profit
B) file for bankrupcy
C) continue to overpay you employees and lose money for tax writeoff purposes
D) implement a budget and pay according to what you can afford
E) tell everyone else since you can only afford a Datsun that everyone who has BMW's has to sell them off and drive the same B210 you have.

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06-10-2005, 02:03 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
McCabe -.5 for 3 million annually.

Aucoin 4 million in the old NHL, this new one pays Aucoin type players 2.5 to 3.0 a year as UFA.

Who else is available at 3? Hamrlik? Leetch? ???
Teverdovsky should be available cheap if anyone wants him

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06-10-2005, 02:07 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte
Teverdovsky should be available cheap if anyone wants him
Now there is a player whose stock has plummeted

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06-10-2005, 02:09 PM
  #61
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First of all, kudos to everyone who has posted here that realizes the Leafs have some serious challenges facing them, and they can only be hindered by the introduction of a salary cap. They could have prepared for this, and I thought they would when they hired JFJ, but he just continued the Leafs' pattern of trading away youth and picks for old guys, like Leetch and Francis.

He might have learned his lesson, and who knows, years from now when all the albatross contracts are gone the Leafs might have some decent youth coming into the league and will have room to add a few key players through UFA. But as for next season...

When you have 8 guys tying up 75% of your salary cap, you're in trouble. The only ways around it are to trade what little talent you have left for nothing, or to start buying people out, which reduces your talent even further and will still probably count towards a cap, or insert a bunch of young cheap guys into the lineup.

This is the wackiest thing I've ever read anywhere, and does nothing to help with the theory that certain Leaf fans just don't get it, are in denial about what's about to happen, or just plain think that everything will always be happy and lovely in Leafland:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
What is stopping a smart GM from selling this almost like the Ray Bourque retirement with a cup campaign ..

The Leafs went into the lockout with 62 mil and a full roster except Poni signed .. If Fergy could call a team meeting and say if everyone is willing to take a 50% pay cut in year one of transition then you guys get one more kick at a Stanley Cup
The Leafs were nowhere close to winning the Cup last year, so brilliant idea to bring back the same crew of old guys, after somehow convincing everyone to take a 50% pay cut to play one more year on an even older team that still has no chance at winning a Cup.

The Leafs will not be signing Pronger, Niedermayer, Kariya, Allison, and Lindros. They will not get everyone to voluntarily take pay cuts after the NHLPA has already agreed to slash everyone's salary. And there will be no magical way to avoid a $36 million salary cap gutting a once-decent hockey team.

What will happen is the Leafs will be forced to take a bunch of players from their 27th ranked prospect pool and insert them into prime time roles. Doesn't sound like a recipie for success if you ask me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Army
1998-1999- They're not going anywhere with three rookies on defence. Thomas is washed up and Berezin and Modin are not good enough to be top 6 players.

Result- 97 points
And contrary to popular belief, because the Leafs exceeded expectations 7 years ago with three young D men, that shows no proof whatsoever that Mats & Eddie + a bunch of schlubs will be in any way successful this season. Use your heads.

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06-10-2005, 02:14 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
With Sundin and Belfour around, the Leafs will be good.
Just like last season, with Jagr and Gonchar and Kolzig around, Washington will be.... ah, nevermind.

Two players does not a hockey team make.

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06-10-2005, 02:28 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gc2005
Just like last season, with Jagr and Gonchar and Kolzig around, Washington will be.... ah, nevermind.

Two players does not a hockey team make.
Iginla and Kiprusoff ... ah, nevermind.

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06-10-2005, 02:30 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
I left that un-said so Thunderstruck was going to step in it, in his next response.

But educating him up front can't hurt either as it keeps his clutter to minimum on a Leafs board

Also performance bonus are not rolled back 24% either just his 2 mil bas will be so that makes Eddie much more cap friendly in the new NHL ..
Nice try, but only Hasek's 2 M will count against the cap if the rumours I'm hearing are correct. His bonuses are based on team post-season performance and that is the one area the league would like to encourage teams to continue to give out as it doesn't hurt the franchises bottom line.

Hasek's cap hit will be at 2 M minus 24%. (approx.)

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06-10-2005, 02:36 PM
  #65
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why not have the injury line up... Antropov, Lindros and Alliston

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Old
06-10-2005, 02:40 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Nice try, but only Hasek's 2 M will count against the cap if the rumours I'm hearing are correct. His bonuses are based on team post-season performance and that is the one area the league would like to encourage teams to continue to give out as it doesn't hurt the franchises bottom line.

Hasek's cap hit will be at 2 M minus 24%. (approx.)
I've heard ANY money given to the players, unless from a league sanctioned trophy, counts against the cap.

This was specifically stated to avoid teams like the Leafs hiring players for non-hockey related functions, and handing out huge, easily attainable bonuses based on the team making the playoffs, etc.

Nice try though.

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06-10-2005, 02:42 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joepeps
why not have the injury line up... Antropov, Lindros and Alliston
I don't see any difference, with that and what they're used to.

Antropov, Nolan, Mogilny.

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06-10-2005, 02:42 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
I've heard ANY money given to the players, unless from a league sanctioned trophy, counts against the cap.

This was specifically stated to avoid teams like the Leafs hiring players for non-hockey related functions, and handing out huge, easily attainable bonuses based on the team making the playoffs, etc.

Nice try though.

Tons of endorsments the leafs can give out for thier other companies.. besides Maple Leafs...

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06-10-2005, 02:44 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Nice try, but only Hasek's 2 M will count against the cap if the rumours I'm hearing are correct. His bonuses are based on team post-season performance and that is the one area the league would like to encourage teams to continue to give out as it doesn't hurt the franchises bottom line.

Hasek's cap hit will be at 2 M minus 24%. (approx.)
Has the term "Player Costs" not been the one constantly mentioned by Bettman et al. in all cap related discusions?

Performance bonuses whether attributed on an individual basis or team related basis is still considered player costs, therefore must fall within the cap range. I've yet to read or hear anything to state the contrary. If you have, feel free to post a source.

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06-10-2005, 02:46 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joepeps
Tons of endorsments the leafs can give out for thier other companies.. besides Maple Leafs...
Well, yes, it isn't like these hockey players don't need to fill their summers with something. Non-union of course, wouldn't want to take jobs away from the brothers, but sure spokesperson for the Raptors (non-hockey) probably could pull in a couple million a year.

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06-10-2005, 03:05 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gc2005
. . .
Use your heads.
Thank you for all your attempts to help us dumbos on the Leafs board to, as you so aptly put it, "Use your heads." We love it when people come on to our board and instruct us.

Being a Leaf fan, I'm not very intelligent of course, but perhaps my advice to you will prove helpful, anyway ("out of the mouths of babes"). The fact is, you don't seem to be succeeding- it appears we are as dumb as ever. Perhaps the time has come to admit that your missionary efforts would be more appreciated elsewhere.

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06-10-2005, 03:06 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gc2005
And contrary to popular belief, because the Leafs exceeded expectations 7 years ago with three young D men, that shows no proof whatsoever that Mats & Eddie + a bunch of schlubs will be in any way successful this season. Use your heads.
I'm sorry? I suppose you have some sort of undeniable proof that the Leafs will definitely be a poor team next year? Give me a break.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
$6.1 Mil thats more then Belfour makes and could be very tough to fit in a Cap world for the Sens ..
Not to mention what they're paying Greg DeVries to play on their third pairing. Plus Muckler promised the fans that he'd resign Bondra when that trade was made. I suppose that won't be happening though.

Funny how Sens fans complain about the Leafs having a salary advantage. For the amount they commited to DeVries and Bondra they could have signed Belfour a year earlier. It's not how much money you have but rather how you use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Nice try, but only Hasek's 2 M will count against the cap if the rumours I'm hearing are correct. His bonuses are based on team post-season performance and that is the one area the league would like to encourage teams to continue to give out as it doesn't hurt the franchises bottom line.
Really!?! That's great news.

I say let's renegotiate Nolan's contract. Pay him $500,000 this year but give him a $4 million bonus for the first playoff game we win and $5,000 for each one after.

Heck let's sign Lindros and Pronger too. $500,000 base with a $5 million bonus for the first playoff game we win and $5,000 for each one after.

This is fun. We're gonna have no trouble signing UFAs.

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Old
06-10-2005, 03:22 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Army
Really!?! That's great news.

I say let's renegotiate Nolan's contract. Pay him $500,000 this year but give him a $4 million bonus for the first playoff game we win and $5,000 for each one after.

Heck let's sign Lindros and Pronger too. $500,000 base with a $5 million bonus for the first playoff game we win and $5,000 for each one after.
But didn't they say it all had to fit in under the 54% team cap? Wouldn't that limit the Leafs to about 20 million in bonuses?

At that rate the Leafs would only be able to:

Pronger 1 million salary 5 million team bonus.
Palffy 1 million salary 4 million team bonus.
Gonchar 1 million salary 3 million team bonus.
Naslund 1 million salary 4 million team bonus.


Let's see they had 8 for 27 and now they are at 12 for 31. Got to find 10 more for a combination of 10 million (salary and team bonuses).

Goal: Ed Belfour.
Defence: Tomas Kaberle, Ken Klee, Bryan McCabe.
Forward: Owen Nolan, Matt Stajan, Mats Sundin, Darcy Tucker.

So far:

Nolan-Sundin-Palffy
Stajan-Forsberg-Tucker

Pronger-Gonchar
McCabe-Kaberle
Klee

Antropov .5 + .5
Almo .5 + 1
...


Okay, it really is silly to believe you could slide team bonuses out without them counting against the cap.

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06-10-2005, 03:33 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
I've heard ANY money given to the players, unless from a league sanctioned trophy, counts against the cap.

This was specifically stated to avoid teams like the Leafs hiring players for non-hockey related functions, and handing out huge, easily attainable bonuses based on the team making the playoffs, etc.

Nice try though.
Wouldn't that be a sweet deal for the Leafs otherwise .. Give every Leaf vet a $1 mil base + give Lindros, Leetch, Allison, Pronger, Newy, Mogilny, Roberts a $1 mil bonus for each round advanced ..

Under the the old CBA the Leafs made their money ($11 mil profit) on the $ 65 mil team Salary .. At the $36 mil cap that is $29 mil extra profit during the season (still allowing the pension found to make their former $11 mil profit) ..

Then 4 rounds X 7 players (as above for $ 28 mil max handed out in performance bonuses that don't count against the cap) ..Leafs rake in MILLIONS extra in playoff revenue..

This new cap according to Thunderstruck will not effect us Leaf fans at all ..

So now the Leafs hand out $36 mil Hard Cap (regular season) + $28 mil (Playoff performance bonus) = $ 64 mil Same as last year .. cool

If the Leafs get eliminated no problem just saves MLSE millions in bonuses ..

SWEET DEAL !!!!!!

Fergy needs to post a big sign .. We are offering the Hasek deal to all UFA ..

Please apply ..roster spots are limited so send in your resumes .. NOW ..


Last edited by Mess: 06-10-2005 at 03:41 PM.
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Old
06-10-2005, 03:42 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlap
Thank you for all your attempts to help us dumbos on the Leafs board to, as you so aptly put it, "Use your heads." We love it when people come on to our board and instruct us.
That's a reasonable complaint. However, when a poster suggests that all the Leafs need do to meet cap requirement is convince their entire roster to take a 50% pay cut, you have to expect a response.

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