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2013 Off Season/Free Agent Discussion Part III

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Old
07-06-2013, 12:14 PM
  #601
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Murray isn't very good.

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07-06-2013, 12:16 PM
  #602
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no to Murray, at best he would have to alternate with Carkner because there's no way we can dress them both.

Yes to Murray because we need some insurance that if Carkner goes down we aren't forced into midget Defense

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07-06-2013, 12:25 PM
  #603
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And what a move that was. He traded prospects for Smyth when the Isles were in the #6 slot. The Isles had to win in OT on the last game of the season to make the playoffs and then lost in the first round. Smyth then left for Colorado in the off season. Yeah, that "move" made all the difference! All it did was cement, at the time, that the Island was not a destination for any NHL player worth anything. The "move" that is making the Islanders is the drafting of JT. I agree that JT needs a winger, but who exactly was out there that fits the bill for the next 5 years? The deals given out yesterday were absurd for a very mediocre to poor free agent class. And why all this Bobby Ryan love? The Ducks have had him on the block for 2 years. Why? And in the end he doesn't produce on the power play and doesn't score more than 60 points and he played with terrific line mates.

The Isles lost one major prospect already in NN. This was not the year for Snow to trade Strome. I expect more than 60 points a season from him.

Some of you just want to make moves, signings and trades just for the sake of doing something. I agree with the stay the course mentality. The Islanders current roster game Pittsburgh more than they could handle. They are a couple of players away and those players were not FAs this year. Losing out on Bernier and Schneider was difficult, but it is hard to criticize without knowing whether what the Isles offered was rejected or the price for the Isles was just too high.
how did those prospects workout for EDM? plante...sucked. omarra...sucked...nilsson was boyght out. Rhe sky doesnt fall when you make a move. Smyth was grwat for the isles and did it all on a vad wheel, definately a reason why we made the playoffs. imagine if we did something like that now

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07-06-2013, 01:10 PM
  #604
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how did those prospects workout for EDM? plante...sucked. omarra...sucked...nilsson was boyght out. Rhe sky doesnt fall when you make a move. Smyth was grwat for the isles and did it all on a vad wheel, definately a reason why we made the playoffs. imagine if we did something like that now
Prospects are too shiny and fun to trade! Ever prospect coms with a certain amount of potential and potential excitement. Which, ironically outside of Tavares, some of our better players were picked in the second round or later... i.e. Hammer, cizikas, martin, etc...

However, as a lot of people have alluded too, not every prospect pans out. So, once some people wrap their head around that and take such lofty expectations away from each and every prospect... The sooner they will realize its not always detrimental to move prospects for established players.

The Smyth trade is a perfect example of the prospects ultimately not living up to their billing and the trade almost working out for the Islanders.

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07-06-2013, 01:33 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by IslandersFan17 View Post
Prospects are too shiny and fun to trade! Ever prospect coms with a certain amount of potential and potential excitement. Which, ironically outside of Tavares, some of our better players were picked in the second round or later... i.e. Hammer, cizikas, martin, etc...

However, as a lot of people have alluded too, not every prospect pans out. So, once some people wrap their head around that and take such lofty expectations away from each and every prospect... The sooner they will realize its not always detrimental to move prospects for established players.

The Smyth trade is a perfect example of the prospects ultimately not living up to their billing and the trade almost working out for the Islanders.
I was addressing the point made by somebody that Snow "making a move" correlates to making the playoffs and 2006 was provided as an example. While I agree that the prospects given up amounted to nothing, the Islanders got nothing out of Smyth either. The trade was made to "give the Islanders legitimacy" and to entice other players to come here. At the end of the day, the Islanders dropped from the 6 spot to the 8 spot , barely made the playoffs , bowed out in the first round, and then were embarrassed by Smyth who took less money to play for Colorado in the offseason. And the Isles sank deeper in the hole after that. The trade did NOT work out for the Islanders. Smyth did not live up to his billing and gave the Islanders the finger on the way out the door. At the end of the day, it was a horrible trade because the Islanders came off looking terrible to other players. And if Smyth had signed here, he would have been overpaid because he was never the same player after leaving Edmonton and was not worth the money the Isles and Colorado threw at him. He became a 50 point player and faded from there. At the end of the day, it was not a good trade for either team.

Trading or overpaying for 35 year old players or free agents or 28 year old players who are 40-50 point scorers does not make a team a winner. I know we all want to read the articles this weekend about free agent winners and losers and see the Isles in the winner column, but overpaying for Michael Ryder or Briere or Clarkson, or Iginla (who is too slow for the Isles style) is not going to put this team over the top. The prospect pool is not as deep as people think with NN's value plummeting this year. The Isles just do not have the financial or prospect resources to trade for a top player or highly regarded goalie. They can't afford to give 2-3 prospects for a player and miss on that player (see the 1990s). So we have to be patient and see if Strome and/or Nelson pan out or wait for the numerous defensemen in the system mature enough to make them chips in a trade in order to be big time players in July.

Until then, we have to patient and not jump at the first shiny toy we see in the store window. And we have to wait until 2015 before the purse strings open up.

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Old
07-06-2013, 01:36 PM
  #606
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LOVE stuff like this. I've heard before that our front office is big on analytics.

Boyes was an obvious downgrade on Parenteau, but PMB should mitigate that.
Moneypuck

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07-06-2013, 01:40 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by IslandersFan17 View Post
Prospects are too shiny and fun to trade! Ever prospect coms with a certain amount of potential and potential excitement. Which, ironically outside of Tavares, some of our better players were picked in the second round or later... i.e. Hammer, cizikas, martin, etc...

However, as a lot of people have alluded too, not every prospect pans out. So, once some people wrap their head around that and take such lofty expectations away from each and every prospect... The sooner they will realize its not always detrimental to move prospects for established players.

The Smyth trade is a perfect example of the prospects ultimately not living up to their billing and the trade almost working out for the Islanders.
Well Nilsson and O'Marra had spent some time in the Isles system by the time they made the trade, I think they had a pretty good handle on them as prospects. The 1st round pick wasn't hard to give up in a year that was talked about as being a weak draft class. To me Nilsson was the only guy in that deal that could have made the Isles look bad he had the skill level but didn't have the desire to go into the dirty area's often enough. I remember a game versus Philly that he was electric(not sure if he had any points) but he looked like a star but several games before and after he was mostly invisible. O'Marra had great character but the rest of his game didn't translate he would have done better in the clutch and grab era NHL.

I'm ok with the Isles moving prospects but I would prefer it to be guys that have had a year in Bridgeport(or more) under the close eye of the organization so they hopefully have a good handle on what they are dealing away.


Last edited by F127: 07-06-2013 at 01:46 PM. Reason: wasn't finished
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07-06-2013, 01:45 PM
  #608
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Vanek would be a great fit, but them I remembered that I root for the Islanders.
Boomer Gordon on XM speaks about Vanek a lot and he pretty much is on point that Vanek tears it up over the first course of the season, tails of, then has a hot streak or two, then disappears later in the season. Pretty much, wows you bunches of numbers, looks good on paper, but when you actually look at his game, very frustrating player.

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07-06-2013, 02:28 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by 19 Straight View Post
I was addressing the point made by somebody that Snow "making a move" correlates to making the playoffs and 2006 was provided as an example. While I agree that the prospects given up amounted to nothing, the Islanders got nothing out of Smyth either. The trade was made to "give the Islanders legitimacy" and to entice other players to come here. At the end of the day, the Islanders dropped from the 6 spot to the 8 spot , barely made the playoffs , bowed out in the first round, and then were embarrassed by Smyth who took less money to play for Colorado in the offseason. And the Isles sank deeper in the hole after that. The trade did NOT work out for the Islanders. Smyth did not live up to his billing and gave the Islanders the finger on the way out the door. At the end of the day, it was a horrible trade because the Islanders came off looking terrible to other players. And if Smyth had signed here, he would have been overpaid because he was never the same player after leaving Edmonton and was not worth the money the Isles and Colorado threw at him. He became a 50 point player and faded from there. At the end of the day, it was not a good trade for either team.

Trading or overpaying for 35 year old players or free agents or 28 year old players who are 40-50 point scorers does not make a team a winner. I know we all want to read the articles this weekend about free agent winners and losers and see the Isles in the winner column, but overpaying for Michael Ryder or Briere or Clarkson, or Iginla (who is too slow for the Isles style) is not going to put this team over the top. The prospect pool is not as deep as people think with NN's value plummeting this year. The Isles just do not have the financial or prospect resources to trade for a top player or highly regarded goalie. They can't afford to give 2-3 prospects for a player and miss on that player (see the 1990s). So we have to be patient and see if Strome and/or Nelson pan out or wait for the numerous defensemen in the system mature enough to make them chips in a trade in order to be big time players in July.

Until then, we have to patient and not jump at the first shiny toy we see in the store window. And we have to wait until 2015 before the purse strings open up.
well yhe Isles made the playoffs with Smyth. He was almost a point a game while playing injured and was our best player, so it is hard to say we got nothing out of it. And im pretty sure drafting AND trading/signing players is exactly how you build a team. Trying to draft every player on your roster is ridiculous.

Garth has been drafting for 6 -7 yrs? If je doesnt have the pieces yet then when is he? Of garth has any fault i think its getting married to his prospects and picks. Sometimes you have to move players. Tough decisions are a gms job. we have momentum this yr, would be nice to keep moving forward. Theres a good chance we take a step bacl this yr with this roster and lose that momentim.

You gotta think Garth needs to make strides. If we go into Barclay and wang sells...garth mighbe on the outside looking in under new ownershio. Success might change that...


Last edited by duster19: 07-06-2013 at 02:38 PM.
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Old
07-06-2013, 02:46 PM
  #610
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well yhe Isles made the playoffs with Smyth. He was almost a point a game while playing injured and was our best player, so it is hard to say we got nothing out of it. And im pretty sure drafting AND trading/signing players is exactly how you build a team. Trying to draft every player on your roster is ridiculous.

Garth has been drafting for 6 -7 yrs? If je doesnt have the pieces yet then when is he? Of garth has any fault i think its getting married to his prospects and picks. Sometimes you have to move players. Tough decisions are a gms job. we have momentum this yr, would be nice to keep moving forward. Theres a good chance we take a step bacl this yr with this roster and lose that momentim.

You gotta think Garth needs to make strides. If we go into Barclay and wang sells...garth mighbe on the outside looking in under new ownershio. Success might change that...
Who would you have given up? And for which player? It's easy to make the point without adding in the players. And he did trade NN for Clutterbuck. Who did the Isles miss out on? Who is this player that is now on another team that is going to take the Isles to the promised land?

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07-06-2013, 03:26 PM
  #611
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Who would you have given up? And for which player? It's easy to make the point without adding in the players. And he did trade NN for Clutterbuck. Who did the Isles miss out on? Who is this player that is now on another team that is going to take the Isles to the promised land?
im on record saying i think we need more then 1 addition. just this yr...missing out on schneider and bernier stung. Wiess or Rebeiro would help. Bobby ryan. scuderi all these guys make an impact and nake us better. Thats juat off the top of my head..

it definately takes 2 sides but sometimes you need to be over aggressive, you cant always get a bargain.

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07-06-2013, 04:34 PM
  #612
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Rich Smith ‏@ALLsportsINTEL 1h
NHL - I was informed at least 4 teams are believed to have contacted the Blues about Pietrangelo. Oilers, Flyers, Islanders, Flames

Saw this on Twitter. Don't know how much merit this has, but I figure I'd post it to see what you guys think.

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07-06-2013, 04:42 PM
  #613
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Rich Smith ‏@ALLsportsINTEL 1h
NHL - I was informed at least 4 teams are believed to have contacted the Blues about Pietrangelo. Oilers, Flyers, Islanders, Flames

Saw this on Twitter. Don't know how much merit this has, but I figure I'd post it to see what you guys think.
AMAC,de hann,Grabner,and 1st....


Get it done garth.....and I would add if we had too...


One thing working to our advantage is that Petro was a teammate of Tavares as kids...

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07-06-2013, 04:54 PM
  #614
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Rich Smith ‏@ALLsportsINTEL 1h
NHL - I was informed at least 4 teams are believed to have contacted the Blues about Pietrangelo. Oilers, Flyers, Islanders, Flames

Saw this on Twitter. Don't know how much merit this has, but I figure I'd post it to see what you guys think.
"Contacted" could mean anything. Just Garth doing his due diligence, as he says. Probably offered a 2nd round pick and can say that he tried to get him.

Pietrangelo, however, is one player that I could swallow the loss of almost anyone in this organization. Would probably give up the 4 1st rounders too, but I never want to venture into offer sheet territory.

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07-06-2013, 04:54 PM
  #615
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Pie is a total pipedream, but I'll take a puff.

I'd give up Reinhart, 1st in 2014 and Grabner. Add in DeHann if we must.

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07-06-2013, 05:07 PM
  #616
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I think a Petriangelo for Bailey trade maybe coming. I think others will be added but this would be the main targets.
Picks and maybe Persson & Ness.
Needs for both teams.

Obviously an opinion.



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07-06-2013, 05:14 PM
  #617
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I think a Petriangelo for Bailey trade maybe coming. I think others will be added but this would be the main targets.
Picks and maybe Persson & Ness.
Needs for both teams.

Obviously an opinion.


If that ever happened I would be convinced that Snow was a Jedi....Then I would go to church every sunday and bible study on Tuesdays...I would not have another sip of an alcoholic beverage for the rest of my life and I would donate all my free time to non profit organizations..

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07-06-2013, 05:14 PM
  #618
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I think a Petriangelo for Bailey trade maybe coming. I think others will be added but this would be the main targets.
Picks and maybe Persson & Ness.
Needs for both teams.

Obviously an opinion.



Only in our dreams or NHL 2014

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Old
07-06-2013, 05:15 PM
  #619
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It's Pietrangelo, he's not going anywhere. Snow is just kicking the tires as he should.

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07-06-2013, 05:17 PM
  #620
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Only in our dreams or NHL 2014
I have to believe if you even attempted that move in a game that EA would contact you and ask you not to purchase their game anymore....They don't need mentally unstable people playing their games

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07-06-2013, 05:19 PM
  #621
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I have to believe if you even attempted that move in a game that EA would contact you and ask you not to purchase their game anymore....They don't need mentally unstable people playing their games
forget it...

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07-06-2013, 05:25 PM
  #622
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I think a Petriangelo for Bailey trade maybe coming. I think others will be added but this would be the main targets.
Picks and maybe Persson & Ness.
Needs for both teams.

Obviously an opinion.


Man, I love Josh Bailey but I'd run with a carriage tied to my back and pull him all the way to St. Louis for that deal.

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Old
07-06-2013, 05:41 PM
  #623
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Man, I love Josh Bailey but I'd run with a carriage tied to my back and pull him all the way to St. Louis for that deal.
Damnit, I didn't want to get involved in the Pietrangelo talk.

JT, Hamonic, Stome, Martin are my personal untouchables. Everyone else is available for a package to land him if St. Louis is crazy enough to trade him.

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07-06-2013, 05:52 PM
  #624
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Blues have just signed Derek Roy, only a one year contract.

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07-06-2013, 05:53 PM
  #625
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...nd-shattenkirk

http://flyersfaithful.com/2013/05/02...-offer-sheets/

Alex Pietrangelo’s agent, Don Meehan, where have I heard this agents name before?

Blues Alex Pietrangelo is looking for at $7 million a year and word is that he won’t entertain anything with a $6 in front of it. GM Doug Armstrong has already said they would match any offer sheet.

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