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2013 Off Season/Free Agent Discussion Part III

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Old
07-09-2013, 02:01 AM
  #776
blitzkriegs
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
A quick followup on Wang's gracious roster allowance.

The knowns:
The Cap is $64 Million.
The Floor is $44 million.
Isle's 2013-14 salary to date: $42,194,476 - BUT that includes Lee who is on a two way down on the Bridge. Cizikas is also on a two way, but I suspect he is here until he plays himself off the club.
Isles real salary to date minus Lee ($1,750,000): $40.4 Million.

We still have to sign Bailey, Clutterbuck, Hickey, and Ulstrom. Ulstrom is out of the equation until he comes back from Europe, so we have three guys left to sign and $3.6 Million to go. My rough predictions with a +/- of $500K:
Hickey - $750K
Bailey - $2 Million
Clutterbuck - $2 Million

That would put us at $45.6 Million or so, a whole $1.6 Million above the floor.

And remember, he gets a revenue sharing check as well which was designed strictly for the purpose of getting clubs that threw in the towel salary wise (cough, cough) get closer to the middle, not the bottom, but the middle of the salary range.

Yet here we are again. Right at the league mandated floor with several glaring needs at all three positions.
And yet, he grabs more and more of the revenue pie, yet still loses money. Well, sort of, appears the 'we're bleeding $20 mil a year has since vanished upon signing the BC deal...

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07-09-2013, 04:37 AM
  #777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
A quick followup on Wang's gracious roster allowance.

The knowns:
The Cap is $64 Million.
The Floor is $44 million.
Isle's 2013-14 salary to date: $42,194,476 - BUT that includes Lee who is on a two way down on the Bridge. Cizikas is also on a two way, but I suspect he is here until he plays himself off the club.
Isles real salary to date minus Lee ($1,750,000): $40.4 Million.

We still have to sign Bailey, Clutterbuck, Hickey, and Ulstrom. Ulstrom is out of the equation until he comes back from Europe, so we have three guys left to sign and $3.6 Million to go. My rough predictions with a +/- of $500K:
Hickey - $750K
Bailey - $2 Million
Clutterbuck - $2 Million

That would put us at $45.6 Million or so, a whole $1.6 Million above the floor.

And remember, he gets a revenue sharing check as well which was designed strictly for the purpose of getting clubs that threw in the towel salary wise (cough, cough) get closer to the middle, not the bottom, but the middle of the salary range.

Yet here we are again. Right at the league mandated floor with several glaring needs at all three positions.
I know we should have totally just gave Clarkson and Clowe 7 year 5 mil$ deals and resigned Striet for 5 years at 5 mil$ then we would have spent an extra 15 million and been a better team,Right?



We will spend when the time is right...While all these teams are tied up on these current awful contracts the Isles no longer have the burden of a DP and soon a Yashin contract...We will spend Money next year or the year after.....right now we have a decent team that will compete and we are basically on the cap floor still, and that's with Tavares,Hamonic,Martin,Okposo, and Grabner locked up....

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07-09-2013, 04:46 AM
  #778
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Originally Posted by IslesRock4 View Post
Really man? Bouchard/Clutterbuck/Nelson/Donovan > Boyes/Aucoin/Reasoner/Streit

Even if it's marginal, it's still an improvement.
Without a doubt.
How many goals did Reasoner score with the Islanders in 92 games? 1, just 1. I think 90% of the people on this board could have eclipsed that number.

JT's RW (insert name here) will always put up numbers and we all know how slow Boyes was and played 0 defense.

Aucoin, liked his speed and determination, but he spent most of his career between the AHL and NHL for a reason.

Streit is a PP QB with his best day's behind him. I'm sure we will miss his offensive prowess, but I truly BeLIeve that even a rookie will play as good or maybe even better defensively.

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Last edited by MattMartin: 07-09-2013 at 04:58 AM.
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07-09-2013, 05:04 AM
  #779
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Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
I know we should have totally just gave Clarkson and Clowe 7 year 5 mil$ deals and resigned Striet for 5 years at 5 mil$ then we would have spent an extra 15 million and been a better team,Right?



We will spend when the time is right...While all these teams are tied up on these current awful contracts the Isles no longer have the burden of a DP and soon a Yashin contract...We will spend Money next year or the year after.....right now we have a decent team that will compete and we are basically on the cap floor still, and that's with Tavares,Hamonic,Martin,Okposo, and Grabner locked up....
The funny thing about those signings, we would have been regretting it in 2 years. Sure it would have made this team a little better but at the cost of maybe Strome,Nelson, and Donovan not getting a chance. If we had zero prospects in the pool then I would have been on the bandwagon to sign 1 of those guys, but lets see what we have instead. Rome wasn't built in a day and nor will a SCC be built in a year. We all loved going to the playoffs, but we also know we are not just 1 or 2 players from being a cup contender.

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07-09-2013, 05:14 AM
  #780
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Originally Posted by MattMartin View Post
The funny thing about those signings, we would have been regretting it in 2 years. Sure it would have made this team a little better but at the cost of maybe Strome,Nelson, and Donovan not getting a chance. If we had zero prospects in the pool then I would have been on the bandwagon to sign 1 of those guys, but lets see what we have instead. Rome wasn't built in a day and nor will a SCC be built in a year. We all loved going to the playoffs, but we also know we are not just 1 or 2 players from being a cup contender.
I didn't think I need to add the--> <--

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07-09-2013, 05:43 AM
  #781
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Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
I didn't think I need to add the--> <--
You didn't, I'm agreeing with you. I don't get the idea of some people thinking we could have done much better with those players
+ their contracts + their years.

At the end of the day we all wanted Ryan,Bernier,Scuderi, etc etc. It wasn't in the cards and I think we are better off not settling for bad contracts.


Last edited by MattMartin: 07-09-2013 at 05:57 AM.
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07-09-2013, 07:29 AM
  #782
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Originally Posted by cjdv16 View Post
Also wondering why "minimal cost" has to continually come up as people defend our GM and ownership... as if it's your money he's spending.

I'd get all giddy and excited if we were pushing the SALARY CAP CEILING when making creative, inexpensive moves.

For now, as the team continues to hover near the bottom, it just irks the daylights out of me that we continue to bottom feed and go bargain basement hunting.

It would be nice to finally sign someone who wasn't:

A. a cast-off
B. a reclamation project
C. injury prone
D. without a major flaw in his game


As a poster previously mentioned.... still glaring needs at Forward (a sniper), at D (at true top pairing Dman), and in goal (a true #1 for years to come).
it's simple. he has accomplished more than some teams that have spent much more. wouldn't you call that something to proud of? that is called 'doing a good job'. spending money does not = success. Snow is sticking to the 'develop from within plan'. he's getting temporary help, until our young guys can get worked in. in many of our opinions (not just the fans on this board), we have improved.

i can understand wanting to win the cup now. who doesn't? we are taking steps in the right direction, and as long as we do, i will not be calling for the nuts of Snow and Wang.

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07-09-2013, 07:56 AM
  #783
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Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
I know we should have totally just gave Clarkson and Clowe 7 year 5 mil$ deals and resigned Striet for 5 years at 5 mil$ then we would have spent an extra 15 million and been a better team,Right?
That's a straw man argument. Over the last 4 years or so, the team has been run under the cap floor. There were deals that could have been had that weren't obviously terrible like those you mention over that time span.

Quote:
We will spend when the time is right...
Well, that's what you hope. Doesn't mean it's gonna happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rikker
it's simple. he has accomplished more than some teams that have spent much more.
Well, then just think what he could do with a budget that wasn't at the floor. It's a handcuff any way you slice it.

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07-09-2013, 08:01 AM
  #784
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The Wild went out and spent all that money and for what reason? To lose in the first round? Yes, they are going to be better of with Parise and Suter, but for now- their results were the same as those low spending Islanders.

The Cup winning team was primarily built through the draft and made calculated moves to add pieces here and there. Furthermore, they lost players whom contributed during their cup run after both cups... Do you think they are going to be any worse?

You build your nucleus with in house talent and when the time is right you add that piece that will put you over the top.

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07-09-2013, 08:47 AM
  #785
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Originally Posted by IslesRock4 View Post
Really man? Bouchard/Clutterbuck/Nelson/Donovan > Boyes/Aucoin/Reasoner/Streit

Even if it's marginal, it's still an improvement.
Meh...that's debatable. Streit is a bigger loss than people here would like to admit. I'll take him over Donovan. I like aucoin over regin. Bouchard has the CAPABILITY of besting boyes' production, I agree. However, as much as I did not like Boyes on the top line, he produced. He was the "bird in the hand." Bouchard is "two in the bush." If Bouchard can play 80 games, he can help your argument. For now, the jury is out on that. Clutterbuck is, of course, a nice addition. It cost the isles nothing from their playoff roster to get him. Nelson and strome are the wild cards...but their impact is as unknown as Donovan's. so, essentially, New York added a third line grinder as a marked improvement over a David ullstrom type. So, like I said, meh. There is A LOT yet to do to ensure another playoff appearance.

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07-09-2013, 08:53 AM
  #786
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Originally Posted by MattMartin View Post
You didn't, I'm agreeing with you. I don't get the idea of some people thinking we could have done much better with those players
+ their contracts + their years.

At the end of the day we all wanted Ryan,Bernier,Scuderi, etc etc. It wasn't in the cards and I think we are better off not settling for bad contracts.
I don't think a single one of those contracts is a bad one.

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07-09-2013, 09:09 AM
  #787
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Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
I know we should have totally just gave Clarkson and Clowe 7 year 5 mil$ deals and resigned Striet for 5 years at 5 mil$ then we would have spent an extra 15 million and been a better team,Right?



We will spend when the time is right...While all these teams are tied up on these current awful contracts the Isles no longer have the burden of a DP and soon a Yashin contract...We will spend Money next year or the year after.....right now we have a decent team that will compete and we are basically on the cap floor still, and that's with Tavares,Hamonic,Martin,Okposo, and Grabner locked up....
Clarkson and close? Nah. Parenteau? Yup!!! 163 points in his last 209 games. Oh, and in his last three seasons he has missed 3 games. So, the timing wasn't right there? Riiiiiiiiight. $4M for a top line player is CHEAP! The isles passed. They will spend when the time is right? The proof is in the pudding...and what wang has been serving islander fans over the years tastes like ****.

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07-09-2013, 09:37 AM
  #788
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Originally Posted by IslandersFan17 View Post
The Wild went out and spent all that money and for what reason? To lose in the first round? Yes, they are going to be better of with Parise and Suter, but for now- their results were the same as those low spending Islanders.

The Cup winning team was primarily built through the draft and made calculated moves to add pieces here and there. Furthermore, they lost players whom contributed during their cup run after both cups... Do you think they are going to be any worse?

You build your nucleus with in house talent and when the time is right you add that piece that will put you over the top.
The draft or via trading aging talent for young talent that you can develop. The key in this era is to min-max your players - hit their maximum value at the minimum price point.

That is exactly the opposite of what happens in UFA. You spend the maximum amount for what will typically be a diminishing value. Almost every UFA will sign a deal that overpays them in term and/or dollars relative to the contract they just completed.

Garth is doing this the right way. Draft, develop, lock up the good ones at a reasonable price by trading some security (term) for salary.

The way you win in the NHL now is draft, develop and lock up a core, fiddle around the edges when needed.

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07-09-2013, 09:57 AM
  #789
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Meh...that's debatable. Streit is a bigger loss than people here would like to admit. I'll take him over Donovan. I like aucoin over regin. Bouchard has the CAPABILITY of besting boyes' production, I agree. However, as much as I did not like Boyes on the top line, he produced. He was the "bird in the hand." Bouchard is "two in the bush." If Bouchard can play 80 games, he can help your argument. For now, the jury is out on that. Clutterbuck is, of course, a nice addition. It cost the isles nothing from their playoff roster to get him. Nelson and strome are the wild cards...but their impact is as unknown as Donovan's. so, essentially, New York added a third line grinder as a marked improvement over a David ullstrom type. So, like I said, meh. There is A LOT yet to do to ensure another playoff appearance.
Streit's a loss, without a doubt, but I wouldn't say "big". We lose his offense but his defensive game was borderline brutal for most of this past season. Even if Donovan doesn't replicate Streit's point totals, as long as his defensive game is superior I'd call it a wash. Either way, the best part is that Donovan's point totals should increase as he gets more experience. I really wouldn't be surprised if a year from today, Donovan is looking like Yandle v2 while Streit is looking like a buyout candidate. The time was right to move on, and to get Donovan acclimated. If it's a one step back, two steps forward type scenario, so be it. Our window isn't closing any time soon.

With Bouchard, I really could care less if he doesn't stay healthy. IMO the only reason he was brought in is so that they'd have a safety net in case Strome isn't ready, which I expect to not be the case. Even if he goes down in the first month, I'd expect Strome to step in and still give us better production than Boyes. Regardless of the scenario, this spot is an upgrade as far as I'm concerned.

Nelson could be considered a "wild-card" I suppose, but he'll probably start on the 3C and he'll only have to replace Aucoin's 6 goals/12 points(12 goals/24 points over an 82 game season). I'd say those numbers are absolutely reachable, and I don't see why he'd provide anything less defensively and/or physically. So again, this is another spot where I see nothing but an upgrade.

IMO the only question-mark is Donovan, but again based on how poor Streit's defensive game was, I wouldn't be surprised if Donovan-for-Streit turns out to be a wash in year one. Other than that, it's nothing but upgrades as far as I'm concerned. Add in expected development for young guys like Bailey, Okposo, Hamonic, Cizikas, possibly Poulin, and even Tavares who still has room to improve, and I just don't see how this team isn't better next season... even with all the "unknown's".

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07-09-2013, 09:58 AM
  #790
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Maybe it is wishful thinking, but I expect the isles to make a big move before heading to Brooklyn.
Will they wiggle out of their lease a yr early? If they can, I would expect a big trade or signing next summer.

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07-09-2013, 11:02 AM
  #791
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Maybe it is wishful thinking, but I expect the isles to make a big move before heading to Brooklyn.
Will they wiggle out of their lease a yr early? If they can, I would expect a big trade or signing next summer.
Agreed. I think next season is the year to make the big free agent addition. They will have another season to further evaluate the young players and see what they really need.

Most important, I want to see if either Poulin or Nilsson can take the next step forward. If either does, now you are just shopping for a backup goalie as opposed to a permanent starter. Maybe both play well and you don't need to add anything in net.

And I want to see what Strome and, to a lesser extent, what Nelson can do. If we are very lucky, they could be our No. 2 and 3 centers for the long haul. If so, maybe one of them or Nielsen becomes a vary valuable trade chip or Strome moves to JT's wing.

Finally I want to see if, after another year of seasoning, Reinhart forces his way onto the team next year. If he comes as fast as Hamonic did, plus with players like Mayfield, Pokka, Pelech and Pedan also in the conversation, the Isles blue line will get crowded very fast.

I am hopeful that the final piece will come next year but it has to come shortly thereafter.

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07-09-2013, 11:13 AM
  #792
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Maybe it is wishful thinking, but I expect the isles to make a big move before heading to Brooklyn.
Will they wiggle out of their lease a yr early? If they can, I would expect a big trade or signing next summer.
Lundqvist.

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07-09-2013, 11:30 AM
  #793
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For those concerned, #Isles are now over the cap floor with Josh Bailey and Thomas Hickey still to be signed.
https://twitter.com/StapeNewsday/sta...22869667459072

Feels kind of weird

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07-09-2013, 11:55 AM
  #794
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I know we should have totally just gave Clarkson and Clowe 7 year 5 mil$ deals and resigned Striet for 5 years at 5 mil$ then we would have spent an extra 15 million and been a better team,Right?



We will spend when the time is right...While all these teams are tied up on these current awful contracts the Isles no longer have the burden of a DP and soon a Yashin contract...We will spend Money next year or the year after.....right now we have a decent team that will compete and we are basically on the cap floor still, and that's with Tavares,Hamonic,Martin,Okposo, and Grabner locked up....
I expect them to make changes using all the tools a good GM has at their disposal. That means signing free agents, or making trades. You can say during any one free agency period that the crop was bad, but as Ritchie Daggers so aptly put it, over a few years the argument goes flat. There are three positions that need top line talent. Each one in goal, on defense, or someone to help Tavares are critical to making another step up. That we have not filled even one of those holes is a crime, and that none of them have been filled specifically because Wang won't let Garth spend over the floor makes it onerous.

I have heard the lie about spending money when the time is right before. Look at the disaster in net. Look at the undeserving and seriously flawed wings Tavares has to be throttled by year after year. Look at all the other teams that address their needs via trade or free agency. How many years have to go by before someone who is an Islander apologist finally wakes up to what the real story is?

I can't wait to see what Wang receives in terms of revenue sharing and how much over the cap we will be. And what the final result is in team performance.

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07-09-2013, 11:56 AM
  #795
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Yay! How many of the other 29 teams in the league issue such a statement or the reporter does it?

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07-09-2013, 12:10 PM
  #796
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Lundqvist.
There is a recent Wang interview in the NY Times. He says the isles will need 'star power' after the Brooklyn move .

I wondered if that was Yormark's influence. The Nets really boosted their payroll with the Brooklyn move.

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07-09-2013, 12:14 PM
  #797
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I expect them to make changes using all the tools a good GM has at their disposal. That means signing free agents, or making trades. You can say during any one free agency period that the crop was bad, but as Ritchie Daggers so aptly put it, over a few years the argument goes flat. There are three positions that need top line talent. Each one in goal, on defense, or someone to help Tavares are critical to making another step up. That we have not filled even one of those holes is a crime, and that none of them have been filled specifically because Wang won't let Garth spend over the floor makes it onerous.

I have heard the lie about spending money when the time is right before. Look at the disaster in net. Look at the undeserving and seriously flawed wings Tavares has to be throttled by year after year. Look at all the other teams that address their needs via trade or free agency. How many years have to go by before someone who is an Islander apologist finally wakes up to what the real story is?

I can't wait to see what Wang receives in terms of revenue sharing and how much over the cap we will be. And what the final result is in team performance.
I don't see a problem with the way this offseason has gone. If the Isles expect Strome to be the 1RW of the future(near future, probably), why go for a guy like Ryan or throw a huge contract at Horton? It's either Strome or a stop-gap, and they went with the stop-gap. No need to break the bank or cash in a ton of chips just because you don't want to wait one year for this kid to hit the NHL.

At defense, I agree they need an upgrade, but other than Scuderi I just didn't see anyone that could fit your description. I'm sure they showed interest in Scuds, but judging by the contract he took I'm assuming that playing for Pittsburgh was more important to him than getting overpaid. Regardless, we still have options, even if we don't bring in another body(which we very well might). There are a handful of high-end prospects who could be considered NHL ready, and those prospects could compete for a spot in camp. I suppose that could result in a set-back of sorts next season, but it also could result in a big year in 2014-15 and in the years following.

In net, I can live with Nabby for another year. Next year's UFA crop looks to be very strong, and this will give us another full season to evaluate Poulin and Nilsson. I'm sure you would have liked bringing in a guy like Miller, but I'm assuming you'd be the first person to crucify Snow once Miller walks in the offseason and we're out of a 1st rounder in 2014. Nabokov has proven that he can at least get us into the playoffs, and he seems to be well liked and respected in the locker room. If the players are happy with this move(which they seem to be), I don't know why we shouldn't be.

Personally, I'd like to find out exactly what we have with our big prospects: Strome, Nelson, Reinhart: before we go and make a huge move. If there's a no-brainer UFA available before that time comes, that's one thing. I didn't see anyone who fit that description this offseason, though. In the meantime, it looks like stop-gaps and under-the-radar type moves.... honestly, it could be a lot worse.

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07-09-2013, 12:32 PM
  #798
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I would like to add Brunner from Det. He's only 27 with good upside and played well in the playoffs. Some interest in Penner too just for his size and leadership in the room.

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07-09-2013, 12:34 PM
  #799
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To your first point, why not pay Brunner for a 1-2 year contract and give Strome a year or two to mature in bridge? Brunner fits the 1st line RW spot we have unquestionably. [/B]
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I don't see a problem with the way this offseason has gone. If the Isles expect Strome to be the 1RW of the future(near future, probably), why go for a guy like Ryan or throw a huge contract at Horton? It's either Strome or a stop-gap, and they went with the stop-gap. No need to break the bank or cash in a ton of chips just because you don't want to wait one year for this kid to hit the NHL.

At defense, I agree they need an upgrade, but other than Scuderi I just didn't see anyone that could fit your description. I'm sure they showed interest in Scuds, but judging by the contract he took I'm assuming that playing for Pittsburgh was more important to him than getting overpaid. Regardless, we still have options, even if we don't bring in another body(which we very well might). There are a handful of high-end prospects who could be considered NHL ready, and those prospects could compete for a spot in camp. I suppose that could result in a set-back of sorts next season, but it also could result in a big year in 2014-15 and in the years following.

In net, I can live with Nabby for another year. Next year's UFA crop looks to be very strong, and this will give us another full season to evaluate Poulin and Nilsson. I'm sure you would have liked bringing in a guy like Miller, but I'm assuming you'd be the first person to crucify Snow once Miller walks in the offseason and we're out of a 1st rounder in 2014. Nabokov has proven that he can at least get us into the playoffs, and he seems to be well liked and respected in the locker room. If the players are happy with this move(which they seem to be), I don't know why we shouldn't be.

Personally, I'd like to find out exactly what we have with our big prospects: Strome, Nelson, Reinhart: before we go and make a huge move. If there's a no-brainer UFA available before that time comes, that's one thing. I didn't see anyone who fit that description this offseason, though. In the meantime, it looks like stop-gaps and under-the-radar type moves.... honestly, it could be a lot worse.

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07-09-2013, 12:39 PM
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TeamKidd
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Some of you act like Wang is just hoarding money away with this team. Do you honestly think he's making a profit with this team and stuffing his pockets? He rescued this team from thieves and criminals and stopped us from moving to kansas city. The team has a very low season ticket base and plays in an ancient arena with very few luxury boxes. Up until very recently he's had a terrible deal with SMG which has stolen tons of revenue.

And you act like he's never spent money before. Just ask Mike Peca or Alex Yashin or Rick Dipietro if he's spent money. sure, maybe not the wisest moves, but he's written checks before and he'll do it again. Moving this team makes it financially viable again.

Sure, maybe he's breaking even this year, or maybe he's even making a few million profit this year, but do you honestly think it even begins to approach the millions he's lost year after year before this?

Be cynical, tell me he never lost that money. Then show me the people lining up to buy the franchise and keep it in nassau because it's such a money maker as is.

Sorry for the OT rant but people use every event as reason to bash Wang when he is THE ONLY reason we have a franchise in he first place.

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