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2013 Off Season/Free Agent Discussion Part III

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07-09-2013, 11:47 AM
  #801
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To your first point, why not pay Brunner for a 1-2 year contract and give Strome a year or two to mature in bridge? Brunner fits the 1st line RW spot we have unquestionably. [/B]
I would have been fine with Brunner for a year. I would have been fine with just about anyone for a year. That said I don't see Strome spending one full year in Bridgeport, much less two.

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07-09-2013, 12:16 PM
  #802
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Some of you act like Wang is just hoarding money away with this team. Do you honestly think he's making a profit with this team and stuffing his pockets? He rescued this team from thieves and criminals and stopped us from moving to kansas city. The team has a very low season ticket base and plays in an ancient arena with very few luxury boxes. Up until very recently he's had a terrible deal with SMG which has stolen tons of revenue.

And you act like he's never spent money before. Just ask Mike Peca or Alex Yashin or Rick Dipietro if he's spent money. sure, maybe not the wisest moves, but he's written checks before and he'll do it again. Moving this team makes it financially viable again.

Sure, maybe he's breaking even this year, or maybe he's even making a few million profit this year, but do you honestly think it even begins to approach the millions he's lost year after year before this?

Be cynical, tell me he never lost that money. Then show me the people lining up to buy the franchise and keep it in nassau because it's such a money maker as is.

Sorry for the OT rant but people use every event as reason to bash Wang when he is THE ONLY reason we have a franchise in he first place.
Back in those days, Wang pushed the payroll (cash) to close to $40 million. He spends around the same now because the CBA requires it, even less if he can, see his countless attempts to add cap padding players to the roster.

Yashin, Peca, DP were paid market rate or waaaaay above rate/term. They got paid, but they paid the wrong people and the rest of the roster suffered for years because of it. Why? Because unlike other teams, Wang would only spend 'x' on his own self-created problem.

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07-09-2013, 12:17 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I would have been fine with Brunner for a year. I would have been fine with just about anyone for a year. That said I don't see Strome spending one full year in Bridgeport, much less two.
i'm not convinced that strome is destined to be john tavares' winger. he has always played centre. so did tyler seguin. the bruins stuck him on the right side and after making improvements in his overall game last year, he struggled this year. that happens when you play someone out of their natural position sometimes. my point is, i don't think the isles should be limiting their present day options with regards to who is on jt's right as strome might not even enter that particular equation.

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07-09-2013, 12:21 PM
  #804
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There is a recent Wang interview in the NY Times. He says the isles will need 'star power' after the Brooklyn move .

I wondered if that was Yormark's influence. The Nets really boosted their payroll with the Brooklyn move.

Theres not too many players in the NHL with star power. ovechkin, crosby... anyone else?

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07-09-2013, 12:23 PM
  #805
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Might I say, I am glad I am not the only one whom would love to bring in Brunner.

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07-09-2013, 12:25 PM
  #806
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Might I say, I am glad I am not the only one whom would love to bring in Brunner.
I would have too, but not after signing Bouchard. Frankly I don't like the idea of adding any forward at this point. Want to see Nelson in the lineup.

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07-09-2013, 12:27 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by IslandersFan17 View Post
Might I say, I am glad I am not the only one whom would love to bring in Brunner.
And why would Brunner sign for a season or two with the Isles? He's looking for a long term contract coming off one half of a good season. He's still unproven and he's going to cost way too much in term. I'd pass.

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07-09-2013, 12:28 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by islandermaniac View Post
i'm not convinced that strome is destined to be john tavares' winger. he has always played centre. so did tyler seguin. the bruins stuck him on the right side and after making improvements in his overall game last year, he struggled this year. that happens when you play someone out of their natural position sometimes. my point is, i don't think the isles should be limiting their present day options with regards to who is on jt's right as strome might not even enter that particular equation.
Maybe, but all signs point to that being the case. One of Nelson or Strome will be moved, unless you see Nielsen getting the boot eventually. Even if that's the case, that means Nelson's future is as a 3C. I'm guessing the Isles have higher hopes for him than that.

As far as who should move between Strome and Nelson, IMO it's obvious: Nelson would give us a big bodied center, which is something we haven't had and genuinely need. Strome's offensive ability fits exactly what Tavares needs on his wing: skating ability, playmaking ability, a high-end shot and high-end vision. Strome's ceiling seems to translate more towards a 1st line level, while Nelson seems like the prototypical 2C. Nelson's defensive game also blows away Strome's defensive game(not a knock on Strome as much as it is pumping up Nelson), which is more valuable at the center position.

Not to mention Strome conveniently switched over to RW as soon as he made it to the AHL. Not to mention Strome has been training in the offseason with Tavares for the last two years, so there is obviously some familiarity and possibly chemistry there already.

It just makes too much sense to me.

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07-09-2013, 12:28 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by blitzkriegs View Post
Back in those days, Wang pushed the payroll (cash) to close to $40 million. He spends around the same now because the CBA requires it, even less if he can, see his countless attempts to add cap padding players to the roster.

Yashin, Peca, DP were paid market rate or waaaaay above rate/term. They got paid, but they paid the wrong people and the rest of the roster suffered for years because of it. Why? Because unlike other teams, Wang would only spend 'x' on his own self-created problem.
In fairness, this year we are already over the cap floor and will be by about $3-4M over once Bailey and Hickey have signed. Add in the $1.5M DP is getting this year without going towards the cap and the team will be spending comfortably above the floor.

Not exactly a max payroll, but clearly an improvement over recent seasons.

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07-09-2013, 12:31 PM
  #810
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Sharks fan here..Love the way your team is shaping up, kudos to Snow..Now if you could only get rid of that owner and add some D.....Anyhow, over on the Left coast we have been discussing moving Pavelski..Who would you guys be willing to part with? Sharks could add anything from pick or players(demers,Stalock) or just pavs byhimself. Thanks.

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07-09-2013, 12:35 PM
  #811
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Maybe, but all signs point to that being the case. One of Nelson or Strome will be moved, unless you see Nielsen getting the boot eventually. Even if that's the case, that means Nelson's future is as a 3C. I'm guessing the Isles have higher hopes for him than that.

As far as who should move between Strome and Nelson, IMO it's obvious: Nelson would give us a big bodied center, which is something we haven't had and genuinely need. Strome's offensive ability fits exactly what Tavares needs on his wing: skating ability, playmaking ability, a high-end shot and high-end vision. Strome's ceiling seems to translate more towards a 1st line level, while Nelson seems like the prototypical 2C. Nelson's defensive game also blows away Strome's defensive game(not a knock on Strome as much as it is pumping up Nelson), which is more valuable at the center position.

Not to mention Strome conveniently switched over to RW as soon as he made it to the AHL. Not to mention Strome has been training in the offseason with Tavares for the last two years, so there is obviously some familiarity and possibly chemistry there already.

It just makes too much sense to me.
and here i like the idea of the isles two most offensively talented players (tavares and strome) NOT playing on the same line. do you believe that moulson is going to be a life long islander? i don't. i could see nelson moving to the left before seeing strome move to the right. i guess we'll see in a couple of years.

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07-09-2013, 12:38 PM
  #812
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Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
In fairness, this year we are already over the cap floor and will be by about $3-4M over once Bailey and Hickey have signed. Add in the $1.5M DP is getting this year without going towards the cap and the team will be spending comfortably above the floor.

Not exactly a max payroll, but clearly an improvement over recent seasons.
how does rick dipietro enter the conversation about the cap floor? you said it yourself, his money to not go towards the cap.

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07-09-2013, 12:38 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
Sharks fan here..Love the way your team is shaping up, kudos to Snow..Now if you could only get rid of that owner and add some D.....Anyhow, over on the Left coast we have been discussing moving Pavelski..Who would you guys be willing to part with? Sharks could add anything from pick or players(demers,Stalock) or just pavs byhimself. Thanks.
Only thing I could see would be something like Moulson+ for Pavelski. You guys need top 6 wingers, and they're both a year away from UFA. Just don't know what the + would be, but I certainly would love Pavelski as the team's 2nd line C. If we could re-sign him, it would definitely mean Strome becomes Tavares' RW, which is what I want to see.

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07-09-2013, 12:39 PM
  #814
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
Sharks fan here..Love the way your team is shaping up, kudos to Snow..Now if you could only get rid of that owner and add some D.....Anyhow, over on the Left coast we have been discussing moving Pavelski..Who would you guys be willing to part with? Sharks could add anything from pick or players(demers,Stalock) or just pavs byhimself. Thanks.

I would LOVE little Joe here, but I dont think we'd be willing to pay you what you'd want for him.

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07-09-2013, 12:39 PM
  #815
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According to Dee Karl from hockeybuzz:

"7/9 1:24 pm: It was just announced that Cal Clutterbuck has agreed to terms on a FOUR-YEAR, $11 mill deal with the Islanders. I DID NOT see that coming. Cal is only 25-years-old."

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07-09-2013, 12:45 PM
  #816
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I would LOVE little Joe here, but I dont think we'd be willing to pay you what you'd want for him.
Pavelski is a UFA after next season, so that's a major turn off to Snow too. While I am a definite fan of Pavelski, I don't see it happening. Crying Ryan taught Snow a lesson that he hasn't repeated since.

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07-09-2013, 01:03 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
In fairness, this year we are already over the cap floor and will be by about $3-4M over once Bailey and Hickey have signed. Add in the $1.5M DP is getting this year without going towards the cap and the team will be spending comfortably above the floor.

Not exactly a max payroll, but clearly an improvement over recent seasons.
Bc Wang has to. The cap cushion of the ELC is gone. Same with DP on the NHL roster. More importantly, the number of players in league with high cap hit, low cash are not as plentiful as they used to be.

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07-09-2013, 01:06 PM
  #818
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Pavelski is a UFA after next season, so that's a major turn off to Snow too. While I am a definite fan of Pavelski, I don't see it happening. Crying Ryan taught Snow a lesson that he hasn't repeated since.

Good points. I wasn't aware of his contract status. Then like IslesRock said something around Moulson.

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07-09-2013, 01:24 PM
  #819
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how does rick dipietro enter the conversation about the cap floor? you said it yourself, his money to not go towards the cap.
Because Wang could have kept DP on the books for another year. He would have to pay DP $4.5M but that would have counted against the cap. That would have been gaming the cap.

By choosing to buy out DP, Wang pledged to spend to the cap + $1.5M.

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07-09-2013, 01:39 PM
  #820
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Because Wang could have kept DP on the books for another year. He would have to pay DP $4.5M but that would have counted against the cap. That would have been gaming the cap.
You could look at it that way, or you could say he saved himself a boatload of cash over the long term on a player that he was going to get zero production from. He's gotta spend that cash anyway.

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07-09-2013, 02:05 PM
  #821
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I don't see a problem with the way this offseason has gone. If the Isles expect Strome to be the 1RW of the future(near future, probably), why go for a guy like Ryan or throw a huge contract at Horton? It's either Strome or a stop-gap, and they went with the stop-gap. No need to break the bank or cash in a ton of chips just because you don't want to wait one year for this kid to hit the NHL.

At defense, I agree they need an upgrade, but other than Scuderi I just didn't see anyone that could fit your description. I'm sure they showed interest in Scuds, but judging by the contract he took I'm assuming that playing for Pittsburgh was more important to him than getting overpaid. Regardless, we still have options, even if we don't bring in another body(which we very well might). There are a handful of high-end prospects who could be considered NHL ready, and those prospects could compete for a spot in camp. I suppose that could result in a set-back of sorts next season, but it also could result in a big year in 2014-15 and in the years following.

In net, I can live with Nabby for another year. Next year's UFA crop looks to be very strong, and this will give us another full season to evaluate Poulin and Nilsson. I'm sure you would have liked bringing in a guy like Miller, but I'm assuming you'd be the first person to crucify Snow once Miller walks in the offseason and we're out of a 1st rounder in 2014. Nabokov has proven that he can at least get us into the playoffs, and he seems to be well liked and respected in the locker room. If the players are happy with this move(which they seem to be), I don't know why we shouldn't be.

Personally, I'd like to find out exactly what we have with our big prospects: Strome, Nelson, Reinhart: before we go and make a huge move. If there's a no-brainer UFA available before that time comes, that's one thing. I didn't see anyone who fit that description this offseason, though. In the meantime, it looks like stop-gaps and under-the-radar type moves.... honestly, it could be a lot worse.
Yes it could be worse, but it could be better too but I guess some of you don't care about that? I know you do Blinkman, but some in here act like Wang is doing the club a favor by starving it to death slower than someone else might. How much better would Tavares and others be if they were developing with better players?

As far as Strome and others are concerned like Reinhart, how long does it take for them to earn the title of a 1st line forward or top pair defenseman? It won't be this year, there is just too much adjustment to go through. A conservative estimate is a minimum of three years. Are you telling me we can't bring in a ringer for three years? Yes we can, and it probably would help the kids coming in not to have the obligation of meeting completely ridiculous milestones immediately. Talk about crushing a prospect with unrealistic expectations.

In goal I have to disagree completely. If they fail to reach the playoffs that position will be the first reason why. Nabokov is looking pretty average, and is a complete sieve in the playoffs, and Poulin sucks. Making it worse is our defensive corps is pretty bad in the defensive zone, and our top line is defensively invisible.

Filling so much as one of the top three needs would have changed the prognosis, but they failed. Why did they fail? Just look at the salary at the floor. It is a long summer, and I will continue to hope they fix at least one issue, but I am not hopeful.

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07-09-2013, 02:37 PM
  #822
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
Yes it could be worse, but it could be better too but I guess some of you don't care about that? I know you do Blinkman, but some in here act like Wang is doing the club a favor by starving it to death slower than someone else might. How much better would Tavares and others be if they were developing with better players?

As far as Strome and others are concerned like Reinhart, how long does it take for them to earn the title of a 1st line forward or top pair defenseman? It won't be this year, there is just too much adjustment to go through. A conservative estimate is a minimum of three years. Are you telling me we can't bring in a ringer for three years? Yes we can, and it probably would help the kids coming in not to have the obligation of meeting completely ridiculous milestones immediately. Talk about crushing a prospect with unrealistic expectations.

In goal I have to disagree completely. If they fail to reach the playoffs that position will be the first reason why. Nabokov is looking pretty average, and is a complete sieve in the playoffs, and Poulin sucks. Making it worse is our defensive corps is pretty bad in the defensive zone, and our top line is defensively invisible.

Filling so much as one of the top three needs would have changed the prognosis, but they failed. Why did they fail? Just look at the salary at the floor. It is a long summer, and I will continue to hope they fix at least one issue, but I am not hopeful.
I think you're overreacting bud. Too early to say "Poulin sucks". Obviously the Isles aren't ready to give up on him/Nilsson just yet, and wanted to buy themselves one more year. As far as Strome needing 3 years to become an impact player, I'm assuming you pulled that number out of your hiny. Prospects on a similar level in Galchenyuk and Huberdeau were arguably impact players last season, their rookie season, with less development time than Strome. The whole point of being patient with him and the rest of the top-prospects is to make the NHL transition smoother. If you truly believe that, then 3-years seems a bit absurd.

Defensively? I get it, but honestly other than Scuderi this whole crop was pretty disappointing. Scuds obviously wanted to play in Pittsburgh, so that leaves either:
A) sign a mediocre defenseman and stick him in the top-4(basically exactly what we've been doing for the last few years).
B) trade some of our top-prospects/picks for a legit top-4(depending on the target, I'd be OK with it, although I don't see who's available that would fit this description)
C) promote from within: from what I've read, a big reason why Reinhart was drafted is because of his NHL-ready size. If that's the case, I highly doubt the Isles expect him to spend too much time developing. If he plays well in TC, now could be the perfect time to implement him.

Again, could cause for a step-back this season, but could also cause us to take two steps forward the year after. For a team as young as ours, is that really such a bad thing?

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07-09-2013, 02:46 PM
  #823
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and here i like the idea of the isles two most offensively talented players (tavares and strome) NOT playing on the same line.
You mean, like they do right now (Moulson/Tavares)? As long as there is depth in the lineup, this shouldn't matter too much. I'd rather have the depth anyway.

Quote:
do you believe that moulson is going to be a life long islander? i don't. i could see nelson moving to the left before seeing strome move to the right. i guess we'll see in a couple of years.
Who knows with Moulson, I wouldn't be surprised either way. As for Strome/Nelson..... Brock Nelson is the better centerman, plain and simple..... and Ryan Strome is better suited to wing. I've watched a lot of both and have been saying it for a couple years now. Everyone kept saying that they have no intention of playing Strome on wing, because all he's played is center. Well, they moved him when he got to the AHL and left Brock at center, so what does that tell you?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, I think both players will excel at their positions.

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07-09-2013, 03:35 PM
  #824
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What wing did strome play?
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You mean, like they do right now (Moulson/Tavares)? As long as there is depth in the lineup, this shouldn't matter too much. I'd rather have the depth anyway.



Who knows with Moulson, I wouldn't be surprised either way. As for Strome/Nelson..... Brock Nelson is the better centerman, plain and simple..... and Ryan Strome is better suited to wing. I've watched a lot of both and have been saying it for a couple years now. Everyone kept saying that they have no intention of playing Strome on wing, because all he's played is center. Well, they moved him when he got to the AHL and left Brock at center, so what does that tell you?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, I think both players will excel at their positions.

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07-09-2013, 03:45 PM
  #825
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What wing did strome play?
Right, I believe.

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