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The Out of Town Thread part LXV - All Talk From Around the League Here

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Old
07-12-2013, 09:57 AM
  #476
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
He had one point the first 6 games against Toronto. So those don't count?

Bergeron was matched up with Kessel's line and Kessel put up 4 goals in 7 games, so the BS about him shutting down TO's top line doesn't fly.

Without a ton of help from teammates(krejci's line) Boston is golfing after 4-5 games.
Okay so the OTHER points after don't count? So let's take one part of the series explain somebody's FULL playoffs? And where was Krejci as the series progresses? How come Krejci is the saviour now when he regressed as the series progressed?

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07-12-2013, 10:00 AM
  #477
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I respect Bergeron, but the term will hurt the Bruins. This guy's body is breaking down and the concussion count is climbing.
I agree. Too much money (he's become wildly overrated) and the term is crazy.

I think this will be an albatross down the road.

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07-12-2013, 10:00 AM
  #478
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Bergeron is one of the best centers in the league. Yes, there are much better players offensively, but to be as good offensively as he is while absolutely dominating some of the toughest matchups in the league....he's the main reason Lucic, Krejci, etc, are as effective as they are.

There's maybe 5 C's I'd take over Bergeron.
Toews
Malkin
Crosby
Backstrom
Datsyuk
Stamkos
Tavares
Giroux
Kopitar
Mike Richards (arguable)
Sedin (arguable)

Just off the top of my head, these guys, I take before Bergeron without worrying too much about it.

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Old
07-12-2013, 10:01 AM
  #479
Son Oncle Jerry
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Contributions isn't just about goals scored.
No, you're right. It's also about maintaining possession and preventing goals... The former didn't lead us anywhere, and the latter... we all know how it ended up.

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07-12-2013, 10:02 AM
  #480
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Nobody's been overgloryfying him, he's a decent 4th liner who plays a kind of game not a lot of players play on this team. Craps like Darche, Engqvist, Pyatt and Y. Weber were way worst than him on our 4th line.
He's better than those guys, but doesn't mean he's a great 4th liner. Eating dirt is better than eating crap, but I'd rather not eat either of them.

White has a spot in the lineup because we lack a player of his style, but other than that, he's nothing to write home about. He's a 13th forward and got used like one by Therrien who likes those type of players anyway. On any other team with better depth on the 4th line White would be overlooked.

Quote:
You say people "overlook" Plek's and Gionta's contributions to this team. I say they need to do more to deserve being praised to begin with.
Plekanec and Gionta are some of the most consistent players on the team in terms of ethic and contributions. Gionta is a work horse that has been on pace anywhere from the 20 to 30 goal range every season while playing an exceptional two-way game. He's already scored big goals for the team in the playoffs in two different series. He only gets crapped on because of his size. Same for Plekanec, he consistently puts up 50 to 60 points while playing with a revolving door of wingers, getting tough matchups and getting the majority of his starts in the defensive zone.

If you want to blame players for lack of offense, blame the guys in the actual offensive roles who's role is to only produce and put up points, not the guys who's main objective is to shutdown scoring lines...the fact that they put up points while doing so is a bonus. That doesn't mean both are untouchable, but they'd be some of the last players I'd point the finger at to blame the lack of success in the playoffs.

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07-12-2013, 10:03 AM
  #481
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Incredible for some in this board as the ONLY guy who seems to have tough matchups is Plekanec....Are they all playing in the same league against the same players? And how about those little stats like faceoffs wins? Unless as Habs fans we are used at being atrocious in that department, hence we were able to convince ourselves as it's a meaningless stat....

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07-12-2013, 10:07 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
He's better than those guys, but doesn't mean he's a great 4th liner. Eating dirt is better than eating crap, but I'd rather not eat either of them.

White has a spot in the lineup because we lack a player of his style, but other than that, he's nothing to write home about. He's a 13th forward and got used like one by Therrien who likes those type of players anyway. On any other team with better depth on the 4th line White would be overlooked.



Plekanec and Gionta are some of the most consistent players on the team in terms of ethic and contributions. Gionta is a work horse that has been on pace anywhere from the 20 to 30 goal range every season while playing an exceptional two-way game. He's already scored big goals for the team in the playoffs in two different series. He only gets crapped on because of his size. Same for Plekanec, he consistently puts up 50 to 60 points while playing with a revolving door of wingers, getting tough matchups and getting the majority of his starts in the defensive zone.

If you want to blame players for lack of offense, blame the guys in the actual offensive roles who's role is to only produce and put up points, not the guys who's main objective is to shutdown scoring lines...the fact that they put up points while doing so is a bonus. That doesn't mean both are untouchable, but they'd be some of the last players I'd point the finger at to blame the lack of success in the playoffs.
Gionta gets crapped on for his total lack of imagination, the fact he is a puck hog who NEVER passes the puck, the fact he is always giving the puck back to the other team's D with his ridiculous slappers, the fact he's not getting in the crease nearly as often as before, and is not skating nearly as fast as before.

As for Plekanec... I have no idea where your rant comes from. Everybody knows what we get with him. Still, people should stop acting like he's a world beater. He's being judged for what he is: A good 2nd line center who plays on the perimeter, and who will be able to handle tough matchups defensively.

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07-12-2013, 10:07 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Incredible for some in this board as the ONLY guy who seems to have tough matchups is Plekanec....Are they all playing in the same league against the same players? And how about those little stats like faceoffs wins? Unless as Habs fans we are used at being atrocious in that department, hence we were able to convince ourselves as it's a meaningless stat....
Bergeron has been great over the past couple of years... well worth what that contract is now going to be paying him.

Problem is that the contract is for future performance. And I have a hard time seeing that guy as a 6 million dollar a year player in 8 years let alone 4. There's a lot of miles on him and that's one hell of a long expensive contract to throw out there.

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07-12-2013, 10:10 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Bergeron has been great over the past couple of years... well worth what that contract is now going to be paying him.

Problem is that the contract is for future performance. And I have a hard time seeing that guy as a 6 million dollar a year player in 8 years let alone 4. There's a lot of miles on him and that's one hell of a long expensive contract to throw out there.
Renaud Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS 1m
Patrice Bergeron a une clause de non-mouvement pour les 6 premières saisons de son entente et une clause de non-échange limitée par la suite

To compound that.

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Old
07-12-2013, 10:18 AM
  #485
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Hopefully, this summer marks the end of the Bruins dominance. Losing key players and their best offensive prospect in Seguin, signing Rask and fragile Bergeron to huge long-term contracts. I think the Bruins will soon drop to bubble team status as Chara is getting older and not as dominant as he used to be. If the Habs can just get meaner and respond to their intimidation tactics and with the pool of prospects we have, good times are ahead.


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07-12-2013, 10:23 AM
  #486
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Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
Hopefully, this summer marks the end of the Bruins dominance. Losing key players and their best offensive prospect in Seguin, signing Rask and fragile Bergeron to huge long-term contracts. I think the Bruins will soon drop to bubble team status as Chara is getting older and not as dominant as he used to be. If the Habs can just get meaner and respond to their intimidation tactics and with the pool of prospects we have, good times are ahead.

Seguin is interesting.

Huge talent obviously hasn't shown up in the playoffs but man, that's a guy I wouldn't want to give up on. In the short term maybe they've improved but I think over the long haul, they'll regret that move.

No doubt he has some growing up to do but at 21, that's the case for a lot of guys.

Thing is though, we need to be worrying about what we do and not other teams. 'Cause if we build the right team then what the other teams do won't matter.

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Old
07-12-2013, 10:24 AM
  #487
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Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
Hopefully, this summer marks the end of the Bruins dominance. Losing key players and their best offensive prospect in Seguin, signing Rask and fragile Bergeron to huge long-term contracts. I think the Bruins will soon drop to bubble team status as Chara is getting older and not as dominant as he used to be. If the Habs can just get meaner and respond to their intimidation tactics and with the pool of prospects we have, good times are ahead.

You don't really know the Boston Bruins. They will find a way to be back at the top of the Eastern Conference even if Bergeron is fragile and even if Chara will retire in the near future. They have good prospects. And I don't see why signing Rask will put an end to their dominance.

I hate the Bruins because they are our biggest rivals but they do draft well. They aren't the Philadelphia Flyers. They are patient and wise.

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07-12-2013, 10:26 AM
  #488
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Originally Posted by Mover View Post
You don't really know the Boston Bruins. They will find a way to be back at the top of the Eastern Conference even if Bergeron is fragile and even if Chara will retire in the near future. They have good prospects. And I don't see why signing Rask will put an end to their dominance.

I hate the Bruins because they are our biggest rivals but they do draft well. They aren't the Philadelphia Flyers.
But a little more pressure moneywise is still great to see.

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07-12-2013, 10:27 AM
  #489
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Bergeron deserved that contract, but it is a risk since he does seem to be breaking down. Playing all those playoff games start to wear after awhile, and he's a target for abuse. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bruins get off to a poor start next year like they did when they won the Cup a couple of years back.

This coming season is going to be tough for a lot of the elite players. A full NHL season, travelling to Russia for the Olympics soon followed by the NHL playoffs. I can see talented heart and soul players like Toews and Bergeron being gassed by the end of next season.

So far the only person saying the Devils aren't losing their 1st round draft pick next year is Kypreos. NHL columnists have all mentioned it. Devils should've given it up the year they went to the finals. It wasn't a deep draft that year and they had the 29th pick.

Signing Clowe to those dollars makes sense now since LL knew he was losing Kovy but getting back cap space. Still, if Clowe didn't know that Kovy was leaving and expected to be playing with him, he's probably going WTF? right now like everyone else.

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Old
07-12-2013, 10:28 AM
  #490
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Not sure I like the Seguin trade for the Bruins, and Hamilton really didn't convince me of anything last season.

Once the Bruins lose Chara, they will be missing something important on their team. Plus, trading Seguin and adding Iginla/Eriksson potentially makes them a harder team to play against on the short-term, but they IMO made their window of opportunity significantly lower.

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07-12-2013, 10:30 AM
  #491
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Originally Posted by Mover View Post
You don't really know the Boston Bruins. They will find a way to be back at the top of the Eastern Conference even if Bergeron is fragile and even if Chara will retire in the near future. They have good prospects. And I don't see why signing Rask will put an end to their dominance.

I hate the Bruins because they are our biggest rivals but they do draft well. They aren't the Philadelphia Flyers.
Maybe but they just tied up a huge amount of money with a guy who's one concussion away from retirement. They don't have another offensive prospect like Seguin in the pipeline and I don't see Hamilton replacing Chara. They've always been able to sign players to reasonable contracts because of their dominance and players wanting to be a part of it but they could easily go back to their bubble days of the early 2000's.

Hey, I'm allowed to have daydreams of misery for the Bruins, dude!

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07-12-2013, 10:33 AM
  #492
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
But a little more pressure moneywise is still great to see.
Indeed. Seidenberg will be an UFA next year. Iginla too. They don't have a lot of cap space, it's still difficult for them to sign UFA players. They signed Iginla because Horton wanted to sign elsewhere.

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07-12-2013, 10:34 AM
  #493
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Bruins are going to be like the Red Wings.

They look like they will be in trouble, but they will still find a way to be competitive.

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07-12-2013, 10:36 AM
  #494
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Bruins are going to be like the Red Wings.

They look like they will be in trouble, but they will still find a way to be competitive.
Well it is somewhat true. They have a great management. Great coach too. Though the Wings keep their core for such a long time and we are talking about unreal stars like Datzyuk, Z, Lindstrom etc. So great teams for a long time needs to keep their core for a long time, and the coach and the GM takes charge of everybody around them.

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07-12-2013, 10:41 AM
  #495
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Bergeron has been great over the past couple of years... well worth what that contract is now going to be paying him.

Problem is that the contract is for future performance. And I have a hard time seeing that guy as a 6 million dollar a year player in 8 years let alone 4. There's a lot of miles on him and that's one hell of a long expensive contract to throw out there.
Two things to consider:

- cap likely to go up

- cba changes down the road

In the short-mid term (3-4 years), its a good deal for the team that is quite likely to be better & better as the cap is rumored to jump considerably as soon as next summer.

Beyond that, your right that it could start to be an issue IF he breaks down, but this far, teams seem to rarely end up seriously hampered by dealing with these types of deals.

Nucks maybe had it worst, but end result for them is horvath & a top-5-10 goalie on a sub-6M$ deal... Not so bad really.


Bergie 's contributions are such that, barring career ending injuries (always a risk), he's still a valuable asset even if not producing offensively. His face off skills & defensive play are more a factor of commitment/attitude/IQ then they are of dynamic physical ability.

Don't much like the big deals for any player, but IMO a guy like Bergeron is more likely to "work out" than some of the elite players who may seem more "deserving" based on pure skill/offensive output.

Can't forget other side of the coin either... Bergeron was going to get paid by someone, if this summer is any indication (AND cap goes up next year), he quite likely could have got more as a ufa

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07-12-2013, 10:52 AM
  #496
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Short term - Devils will hurt.

Long term - they will become a more competitive team.

Lou quietly never wanted to give Kovalchuk that insane contract, he was forced by ownership. They now get instant cap relief and are off the hook in the form of some 70+ million dollars.

Trust me - Lou is smiling away from the cameras....
On TSN news, they said it's great for the Devils.
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Two things to consider:

- cap likely to go up

- cba changes down the road

In the short-mid term (3-4 years), its a good deal for the team that is quite likely to be better & better as the cap is rumored to jump considerably as soon as next summer.

Beyond that, your right that it could start to be an issue IF he breaks down, but this far, teams seem to rarely end up seriously hampered by dealing with these types of deals.

Nucks maybe had it worst, but end result for them is horvath & a top-5-10 goalie on a sub-6M$ deal... Not so bad really.


Bergie 's contributions are such that, barring career ending injuries (always a risk), he's still a valuable asset even if not producing offensively. His face off skills & defensive play are more a factor of commitment/attitude/IQ then they are of dynamic physical ability.

Don't much like the big deals for any player, but IMO a guy like Bergeron is more likely to "work out" than some of the elite players who may seem more "deserving" based on pure skill/offensive output.

Can't forget other side of the coin either... Bergeron was going to get paid by someone, if this summer is any indication (AND cap goes up next year), he quite likely could have got more as a ufa
I still don't like the deal. 8 years is a long, long time. I'd rather pay him more for a four year deal than stick myself with him for 8. I guess we could bookmark this and re-open it in the year 2022 and see if I'm wrong then.

2022 man, that's a long time from now.

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07-12-2013, 11:08 AM
  #497
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Okay so the OTHER points after don't count? So let's take one part of the series explain somebody's FULL playoffs? And where was Krejci as the series progresses? How come Krejci is the saviour now when he regressed as the series progressed?
People are crapping on Gionta and Plekanec about 5 playoff games. Just pointing out that Bergeron did nothing the first 6 games against Toronto. Plekanec didn't have a Krejci to carryu the offense while he took tough matchups...he had to be Bergeron AND Krejci, that(and goaltendin) was part of why the Habs lost.

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07-12-2013, 11:19 AM
  #498
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People are crapping on Gionta and Plekanec about 5 playoff games. Just pointing out that Bergeron did nothing the first 6 games against Toronto. Plekanec didn't have a Krejci to carryu the offense while he took tough matchups...he had to be Bergeron AND Krejci, that(and goaltendin) was part of why the Habs lost.
Tough matchup for Ottawa was what? While Kessel is still a pretty good player in this league, surely better than anybody in the Sens lineup not named Spezza, who wasn't playing.

Of course, if Boston fails in 5, nobody talks about how great Bergeron was in the 3rd round. Just like if we score in OT game 7 2 years ago, nobody talks about how ****ing frustrating it was to see Boston win a cup. But end-result is that Bergeron is a proven clutch playoffs performer, a great regular season performer, a guy that also had to carry his team as Krejci was not always that great, at least compared to his playoff results. Bergeron is not a spectacular stat offensive performer but a player of his caliber, you have to go beyond.

Just like people who were crapping on Toews and yet were continouously told that he was doing all those other things.

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07-12-2013, 11:20 AM
  #499
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Toews
Malkin
Crosby
Backstrom
Datsyuk
Stamkos
Tavares
Giroux
Kopitar
Mike Richards (arguable)
Sedin (arguable)

Just off the top of my head, these guys, I take before Bergeron without worrying too much about it.
You are mad if you think that Backstrom, Kopitar, Richards or Sedin are even in the same league as Bergeron...Tavares, Stamkos & Giroux may be the better offensive forces, but their overall game is not up to par with Bergeron's...

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07-12-2013, 11:23 AM
  #500
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On TSN news, they said it's great for the Devils.

I still don't like the deal. 8 years is a long, long time. I'd rather pay him more for a four year deal than stick myself with him for 8. I guess we could bookmark this and re-open it in the year 2022 and see if I'm wrong then.

2022 man, that's a long time from now.
Also Bergeron still as 1 year left on his current contract before this 8 year extension kicks in.. Adding an additional 8 years is quite a long term commitment from the Bruins. Now if we could only get PK to sign an identical contract..

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