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Burmistrov to KHL - [UPDATE JULY 8, 2013] Signs 2 year contract with AK Bars

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07-13-2013, 07:29 AM
  #426
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Oh dear.

Kay guys there are two issues at hand here...

Effectiveness of Burmistrov versus not effectiveness of Burmistrov.

Tradeoffs between a good player who doesn't play as systematically as the coach would like versus a bad player who does play as systematically as the coach would like.

These are two very different issues.


The possibility of losing a player who improves the teams results when on the ice with nothing in return is a negative thing. Anyway you cut it. No one is saying he's a star.


I hope you realize how dumb that would be since at the time of his benching Burmistrov was in 6th for the teams forwards in scoring relative to ice time at the time of the benching. So, there was the whole roster minus LLW, Kane + Antro that were more deserving of sitting... some of whom were given more offensive zone oppertunities, cushier minutes, and more PP time.


Yes and no. It's all about tradeoffs.
When Burmistrov was on the ice, the players on the team each on average did better in all things (goals for, goals against, shot attempts for, shot attempts against, puck possession) than when the player was not with Burmistrov. So there was some pros to Burmistrov and what he did.
However, you are right about team game aspect.
It's a tug-a-war where it depends on what is the stronger factor. This would be debatable. Obviously a player like Ladd who plays in system and improves the team is optimal, but it is wintin the realm of possibillities that a player not in system could be better for the team overall than a terrible player (ex: Thorburn) playing in the system.


In the last 2 seasons:
When Ladd was with Little, Jets had 51% of goals and 54% of possession.
When Kane was with Burmi, Jets had 59% of goals and 53% of possession.

LLW was taking a tougher assignment than Kane-Burmi was, so that affects the results, but Kane-Burmi still was taking the second toughest this season when they were together.

This is pretty much all you can ask for of a second line. They were awesome. Kane also scored a lot more goals in shorter time with Burmistrov than without because this was the only time Kane wasn't spending most of his time in the defensive zone.

Also, its better to have a solid 2nd line than 3rd line because they spend more TOI.


I don't think he had a big head, but neither of us will know for sure.
I personally wouldn't have been stoked about losing icetime to Thorburn and Wright.
I personally would like being paid more in my career than not.
I personally would like to work close to home than not.


How is someone who is above average results invisible more often than not unless perhaps maybe you're falling for common misconceptions due to memory being biased to high-profile rare events instead of what occurs on average? Is it not possible since all Jets players were better with him on the ice with them than not that maybe, just maybe, you are mistaken about how he helped.
I'd say it's very debatable between Wellwood, Burmistrov and Antropov who was the 5th best forward on the Jets.


I'd say 2-3rd line on 80% of teams depending on depth and depending on how coach uses particular lines.
Burmistrov can't create offense on his own. We all know this and pretty much agree.
What he does have a nack for is making anyone and everyone better.
He pushes the play forward well and Jets have there best scoring chance differential with him on the ice, after Ladd that is.
This is why Kane does better with Burmi than say Miettinen and Jokinen. When Kane was with these characters Kane was spending most of his time in his own zone, so he wasn't able to use his offensive gifts. When Burmistrov was on the ice, the Jets spent a lot less time in their own zone, allowing for Kane to take advantage of more oppertunities.


Point totals are related to talent, TOI, sh%, usage, games played and quality PP time.
All indications were that Burmi was not a great offensive player but he was pretty solid for 21 and was already above league and team average.



I don't think that this team shouldn't contend for playoffs. If you're smart you should be able to see the team is a bubble team that is barely above average with below average goaltending.

While Burmistrov isn't the difference, amassing best players is best thing to do. Burmistrov was better than many players we had, while far from the best.



End Thoughts

The caveat to all this though is the work relationship between Noel and Burmistrov. These possitive things of Burmistrov could be overwhelmed by the poor relationship between the player and the coach. No player is above the team, but no coach should be either.

It unfortunately changes everything. The responsibility of such is on the shoulders of Atlanta, TNSE, Noel and Burmistrov. Arguing who has more blame when we don't know everything sounds like my brothers arguing who likes a candy or cake more. You don't know for fact because you can't really quantify it; you can only guess.
This was an excellant post garret

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07-13-2013, 08:32 AM
  #427
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The caveat to all this though is the work relationship between Noel and Burmistrov. These possitive things of Burmistrov could be overwhelmed by the poor relationship between the player and the coach. No player is above the team, but no coach should be either.

It unfortunately changes everything. The responsibility of such is on the shoulders of Atlanta, TNSE, Noel and Burmistrov. Arguing who has more blame when we don't know everything sounds like my brothers arguing who likes a candy or cake more. You don't know for fact because you can't really quantify it; you can only guess.
Wrong, the fault clearly lies mainly with Burmistrov. The responsibility is on the employee to conform to both the demands of the job and to adhere to the same rules in the workplace that apply to everyone else - to perform as required in other words, period, and especially at that pay grade.

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No player is above the team, but no coach should be either.
Did you really just say that? That is exactly what the coach is, he is essentially their superior, their boss.

We aren't discussing some 15 year-old kid working at a movie theatre here but rather an NHL veteran of near 200 games; quit excusing the behavior of the adult employee. What we know are that the published reports stated he did not follow the requests of his boss (Noel), was repeatedly dismissive, to the point that they attempted to have Antropov act as a go-between, yet the behavior did not change. They had Jimmy Roy attempt to communicate with him, and I'm guessing he was also called before management probably on more than one occasion as well given the length of the ongoing drama.

Some people have claimed here that he conformed at season-end and was rewarded with more icetime... but in reality what most likely happened was that they used him more when Jokinen went down with injury due having little else in reserve; it appears some are most certainly confusing causation there. Some have dismissed his pedestrian performance in St. Johns by stating that McCambridge said kind words about him; for all we know those words were strictly said as pr, that team management saw this result coming from miles away and were already planning on shopping him then. It is the job of team personnel to convey the message that management wants them to convey. The AHL coach also isn't going to rip an NHL player publicly, FYI, that is rarely done.

In the end the player whose representatives claimed would not play in the KHL... left to play in the KHL of his own volition; he essentially quit on the Jets and left and was well within his rights to do so. Best of luck to him elsewhere.

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07-13-2013, 08:45 AM
  #428
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Finally, to those that have surmised on this board that Burmistrov might be back with the Jets someday in the future, I'd put the odds of that happening at roughly .001%. When he left the team statement read in part: "He remains a very talented player within the Jets organization and we will continue to monitor his progress and development going forward." The following day in a radio interview on 1290 Cheveldayoff was more reserved in his verbiage, stating to the effect that it wouldn't surprise them to see him back in the NHL someday. I took note of his use of "NHL" versus back with the Jets.

This is the team that continually states publicly that they only want players that want to be here. Seems pretty doubtful they'd ever welcome back a guy that left on his own. If he ever plays another game with the Jets... I will eat a bug.

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07-13-2013, 09:04 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Finally, to those that have surmised on this board that Burmistrov might be back with the Jets someday in the future, I'd put the odds of that happening at roughly .001%. When he left the team statement read in part: "He remains a very talented player within the Jets organization and we will continue to monitor his progress and development going forward." The following day in a radio interview on 1290 Cheveldayoff was more reserved in his verbiage, stating to the effect that it wouldn't surprise them to see him back in the NHL someday. I took note of his use of "NHL" versus back with the Jets.

This is the team that continually states publicly that they only want players that want to be here. Seems pretty doubtful they'd ever welcome back a guy that left on his own. If he ever plays another game with the Jets... I will eat a bug.
Like you, I think it's more likely that he signals to the Jets that he'd like to come back to the NHL, at which time a trade could be affected. If he does progress in the KHL, but does not want to return to the Jets, an improved value proposition for a trade of his rights would be a nice by-product. It would at least allow the Jets to get some return on that 1st round pick Atlanta used to draft him.

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07-13-2013, 09:36 AM
  #430
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Like you, I think it's more likely that he signals to the Jets that he'd like to come back to the NHL, at which time a trade could be affected. If he does progress in the KHL, but does not want to return to the Jets, an improved value proposition for a trade of his rights would be a nice by-product. It would at least allow the Jets to get some return on that 1st round pick Atlanta used to draft him.
Yea these are my thoughts as well. Lots can change and I will keep an open mind but in a perfect world his game will improve in Russia and at some point he will want to give the "NHL" another shot. Who knows where that might be?

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07-13-2013, 10:37 AM
  #431
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Max length in arbitration is 2 years which makes Bogo a UFA at 25. I'm guessing his agent would have no problems him getting $4.5 per on a 2 year contract. Should co-inside nicely with UFA and the cap going up.

My main point is...is it worth it for Chevy to try and nickle & dime a guy like Bogo over less than a M per year, especially when we are not pressed against the cap? Nashville is the poster child for what happens when you don't lock up your top end talent. They saw a Norris trophy candidate walk and then had to big time over pay to prevent the other from being stolen. A few years back they could have signed both long term as RFA's for what now would seem like bargain basement prices.
I predict that Bogo will get signed for 8 years (obviously before it hits the courts). The comments about nickel and dime perplex me. If what I am hearing is correct, they are about 10 million or more apart a couple of weeks ago - not trivial dollars - and both sides have started with a big number.

Not picking on you King, but why do so many think that "negotiation" falls onto only one party? If I am a player and a team offers me $4 mil per year, but I am asking for $8 mil, does that mean the number is $6 mil and we both walk away happy? I think these things are more subtle than that, and all I am saying is because the announcement hasn't happened yet doesn't mean that Chevy hasn't put a huge and long term offer in front of Bogo. As ALWAYS I reserve the right to be considered full of ***** or proven wrong

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07-13-2013, 12:32 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by TCsmyth View Post
I predict that Bogo will get signed for 8 years (obviously before it hits the courts). The comments about nickel and dime perplex me. If what I am hearing is correct, they are about 10 million or more apart a couple of weeks ago - not trivial dollars - and both sides have started with a big number.

Not picking on you King, but why do so many think that "negotiation" falls onto only one party? If I am a player and a team offers me $4 mil per year, but I am asking for $8 mil, does that mean the number is $6 mil and we both walk away happy? I think these things are more subtle than that, and all I am saying is because the announcement hasn't happened yet doesn't mean that Chevy hasn't put a huge and long term offer in front of Bogo. As ALWAYS I reserve the right to be considered full of ***** or proven wrong
Yea this is how I see it as well. These are 3 very good core players that are going to want to get paid and I could see them being pretty complex negociations to get to fair for both sides.

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07-13-2013, 01:04 PM
  #433
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Yea this is how I see it as well. These are 3 very good core players that are going to want to get paid and I could see them being pretty complex negociations to get to fair for both sides.
Agree ps and TC.

Balance of having cap space, while managing a smaller-market budget, with a desire to get them locked up and wanting to be fair but not overpay.

Ladd's and Kane's contracts are good examples of when this works for both (though Ladd is a bargain now). Perhaps Enstrom and Pavs contracts are where the team overpaid, but that can still change with solid seasons.

If I had to guess, I think Little will get a 'fair deal', and we might be seen as overpaying Wheeler and Bogo. Just a hunch.

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07-13-2013, 01:07 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by TCsmyth View Post
I predict that Bogo will get signed for 8 years (obviously before it hits the courts). The comments about nickel and dime perplex me. If what I am hearing is correct, they are about 10 million or more apart a couple of weeks ago - not trivial dollars - and both sides have started with a big number.

Not picking on you King, but why do so many think that "negotiation" falls onto only one party? If I am a player and a team offers me $4 mil per year, but I am asking for $8 mil, does that mean the number is $6 mil and we both walk away happy? I think these things are more subtle than that, and all I am saying is because the announcement hasn't happened yet doesn't mean that Chevy hasn't put a huge and long term offer in front of Bogo. As ALWAYS I reserve the right to be considered full of ***** or proven wrong
Valid point. I think some of my perspective comes from being involved in labour negotiations from both the union and management side at different points in my career, and witnessing first hand the grind that happens and the resentments that can build even if both sides see the middle ground they will eventually get to. Ill preface this by saying I'm a big Chevy fan, but my impression is that maybe due to some inexperience he grinds out negotiations more than he needs to, while a more experienced GM might give a little bit more and a little quicker to avoid damaging a relationship. If you look around the league most of the top teams target who they want long term and get deals done in comparatively short order.

I think I first jumped to the players perspective on this one, as a counter to the argument that the players hands were tied due to a few team friendly RFA signings. If you go back a season it was pretty much the opposite where a lot of RFA signings seemed to favour players.

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07-13-2013, 02:04 PM
  #435
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Wrong, the fault clearly lies mainly with Burmistrov. The responsibility is on the employee to conform to both the demands of the job and to adhere to the same rules in the workplace that apply to everyone else - to perform as required in other words, period, and especially at that pay grade.
Agree to disagree.... especially because you cannot know that for certain. You are just assuming so.
Relationships is a two way street.
I was not removing blame from Burmistrov but removing it from Noel without real knowledge of what happened is not exactly logical.

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Did you really just say that? That is exactly what the coach is, he is essentially their superior, their boss.
Missed the point.
Coach is not above the team, as in the Winnipeg Jets.

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We aren't discussing some 15 year-old kid working at a movie theatre here but rather an NHL veteran of near 200 games; quit excusing the behavior of the adult employee.
Didn't excuse him of any blame or behaviour. Just pointed out that there's more than one party involved.

Quote:
Some people have claimed here that he conformed at season-end and was rewarded with more icetime... but in reality what most likely happened was that they used him more when Jokinen went down with injury due having little else in reserve; it appears some are most certainly confusing causation there.
Started before injury.

Quote:
Some have dismissed his pedestrian performance in St. Johns by stating that McCambridge said kind words about him; for all we know those words were strictly said as pr, that team management saw this result coming from miles away and were already planning on shopping him then. It is the job of team personnel to convey the message that management wants them to convey. The AHL coach also isn't going to rip an NHL player publicly, FYI, that is rarely done.
And some have dismissed his very great performance when actually given players above Thorburn, Wright, Slater, Cormier, etc.
Performance that is more sustained and over greater sample.
Besides, St. John's had a terrible season and Burmistrov was still one of the most productive players on the team at the time.
Also, many players far better than Burmistrov had just as much or worse problems in the AHL during the lockout. It happens.

And also McCambridge didn't mind pointing out character conflicts/issues with Machacek who was shopped and traded. This is not definitive proof that you are wrong here however, as you may indeed be right here.



I am not defending or excusing the choices and conflicts Burmistrov made/had, as no one should.
I am however pointing out falsities in peoples assessment of his performance and contributions.


Last edited by garret9: 07-13-2013 at 02:19 PM.
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07-13-2013, 02:14 PM
  #436
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Valid point. I think some of my perspective comes from being involved in labour negotiations from both the union and management side at different points in my career, and witnessing first hand the grind that happens and the resentments that can build even if both sides see the middle ground they will eventually get to. Ill preface this by saying I'm a big Chevy fan, but my impression is that maybe due to some inexperience he grinds out negotiations more than he needs to, while a more experienced GM might give a little bit more and a little quicker to avoid damaging a relationship. If you look around the league most of the top teams target who they want long term and get deals done in comparatively short order.

I think I first jumped to the players perspective on this one, as a counter to the argument that the players hands were tied due to a few team friendly RFA signings. If you go back a season it was pretty much the opposite where a lot of RFA signings seemed to favour players.
This is a great post.....my hopes are these are going to be such stinking large contracts that when they are finally signed everyone will turn the page and move on. I do know first hand that they can be very taxing on both sides when the deals drag on.

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07-13-2013, 02:33 PM
  #437
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Regarding contract negotiations - typically its the agents and not the players who have to wade through the muck, so I'm not overly concerned about the negotiation grind.

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07-13-2013, 02:54 PM
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Agree to disagree.... especially because you cannot know that for certain. You are just assuming so.
Relationships is a two way street.
I was not removing blame from Burmistrov but removing it from Noel without real knowledge of what happened is not exactly logical.
I'm basing my opinion upon published reports that weren't exactly denied by the team, but rather were more likely to have probably been intentionally floated by them. In fact, judging by their actions taken following the reports, his benching indeed suggests that they were attempting to reign him in. A benching of that length to a roster player would also only have been done with the blessing of management. Not only that, but earlier (during the lockout) he'd stated a preference to go home and play there... but following a meeting with Cheveldayoff, Burmistrov then instead reported to St. John's; again, the actions of a team attempting to get a player under their own control. It would seem that both coach and management were in lockstep here and to think otherwise seems highly illogical.

The coach was obviously working in concert with management in this case; it seems as if the player was the one offside. Oh well, hopefully they can replace this individual that quit on them with someone that is more of a team-oriented player.

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07-13-2013, 03:04 PM
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Still doesn't prove that the other parties are free from blame.

Adieu

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07-13-2013, 03:07 PM
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Still doesn't prove that the other parties are free from blame.

Adieu
Yet on balance, the available evidence in the public domain suggests that the player is indeed mostly at fault, given that employers tend to frown upon employees that don't perform as requested.

Toodles.

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07-13-2013, 03:18 PM
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From someone who just joined this board, it appears a few people have a very clear dislike or hatred even for Claude Noel and this is clouding their judgement big time.

How can people blame Noel when burmistrovs best season was 2011/2012 with noel as his coach

I see all these numbers and percentages thrown out there.. how is any of that relevant?

Whats relevant is most of burmistrovs points came in the first few games of the season

He was invisible for most of the season,

the hate or dislike some have for Noel is totally strange to me

its almost like some of you thought that this teams talent would improve just because they put on a different jersey and moved north

its apparent to me that not a single person here defending burmistrov watched any atlanta thrasher hockey games. Because if you did, you would actutally be able to see the downfalls this guy had.

Now he's off to the KHL and people will see him put up big numbers and points and think, YUP lost a star in the making, but... will completely ignore the fact that in the KHL, they dont play defence, its not north south like the NHL.. its east/west.

Burmistrov should actually do well in the KHL but just cuz he does well there, it dont mean much.

The hate tho that some have for NOEL, is abundantly clear and is truly clouding some peoples judgement big time.

LADD,LITTLE,WHEELER,KANE.

Burmistrov wasnt even ranked in the top 20, maybe top 30 of his VERY WEAK draft class.

he was a reach, a huuuge reach by atlanta who rushed him. People can blame NOEL, they can blame TNSE, they can blame CHEVY.. but you know what.. 99 percent of the blame goes to the player in this situation. Coaches want to win and win now, that is their job, the reality is.. if burmistrov was as great as everyone is pretending he was, noel would have played him more. Throw out all these irrelevant numbers and percentages you people want, take the fun out of hockey all you want.. but reality is.. NOEL made chicken salad out of chicken crap and if people seriously cant see that... i dunno, its almost like people expected this team who has been below average for years to all of a sudden be a contender cuz they moved north.

Some of you totally disregard the lack of talent on this team, you disregard the fact that he sucked in the AHL, you disregard the fact that COACHES want to win NOW.. all because of your ridiculous hatred for a coach who took a team full of cast offs and AHL calibre players and almost made the playoffs when they should have, based on talent, had a top 3 pick.

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07-13-2013, 04:04 PM
  #442
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From someone who just joined this board, it appears a few people have a very clear dislike or hatred even for Claude Noel and this is clouding their judgement big time.

How can people blame Noel when burmistrovs best season was 2011/2012 with noel as his coach

I see all these numbers and percentages thrown out there.. how is any of that relevant?

Whats relevant is most of burmistrovs points came in the first few games of the season

He was invisible for most of the season,

the hate or dislike some have for Noel is totally strange to me

its almost like some of you thought that this teams talent would improve just because they put on a different jersey and moved north

its apparent to me that not a single person here defending burmistrov watched any atlanta thrasher hockey games. Because if you did, you would actutally be able to see the downfalls this guy had.

Now he's off to the KHL and people will see him put up big numbers and points and think, YUP lost a star in the making, but... will completely ignore the fact that in the KHL, they dont play defence, its not north south like the NHL.. its east/west.

Burmistrov should actually do well in the KHL but just cuz he does well there, it dont mean much.

The hate tho that some have for NOEL, is abundantly clear and is truly clouding some peoples judgement big time.

LADD,LITTLE,WHEELER,KANE.

Burmistrov wasnt even ranked in the top 20, maybe top 30 of his VERY WEAK draft class.

he was a reach, a huuuge reach by atlanta who rushed him. People can blame NOEL, they can blame TNSE, they can blame CHEVY.. but you kno
w what.. 99 percent of the blame goes to the player in this situation. Coaches want to win and win now, that is their job, the reality is.. if burmistrov was as great as everyone is pretending he was, noel would have played him more. Throw out all these irrelevant numbers and percentages you people want, take the fun out of hockey all you want.. but reality is.. NOEL made chicken salad out of chicken crap and if people seriously cant see that... i dunno, its almost like people expected this team who has been below average for years to all of a sudden be a contender cuz they moved north.

Some of you totally disregard the lack of talent on this team, you disregard the fact that he sucked in the AHL, you disregard the fact that COACHES want to win NOW.. all because of your ridiculous hatred for a coach who took a team full of cast offs and AHL calibre players and almost made the playoffs when they should have, based on talent, had a top 3 pick.
Most of what you said I believe is nonsense, though its your opinion.

But the bolder part is wrong.

TSN: 12. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=325285
Central Scouting: 11 http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=524284
A composite of TSN, McKeen's hockey, ISS and TheHockey News had him averaged out at 10. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4322923/

Those are just a couple I found from a QUICK search.
Frankly, I think you're flat out wrong.
Are there publications that have him lower, I'm sure but a reach?
NOPE

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07-13-2013, 04:40 PM
  #443
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This is a great post.....my hopes are these are going to be such stinking large contracts that when they are finally signed everyone will turn the page and move on. I do know first hand that they can be very taxing on both sides when the deals drag on.
Thanks, and I'm trusting everything will work out in the end. But I'd really like to see that first big signing, especially if its Bogo.

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07-13-2013, 04:58 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
Most of what you said I believe is nonsense, though its your opinion.

But the bolder part is wrong.

TSN: 12. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=325285
Central Scouting: 11 http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=524284
A composite of TSN, McKeen's hockey, ISS and TheHockey News had him averaged out at 10. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4322923/

Those are just a couple I found from a QUICK search.
Frankly, I think you're flat out wrong.
Are there publications that have him lower, I'm sure but a reach?
NOPE
Burmistrov was projected to be a top-15 player by kinda like everyone. BS.

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07-13-2013, 05:10 PM
  #445
BigTuna49
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Burmi was less of a reach then Scheifele.

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07-13-2013, 05:12 PM
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puck stoppa
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Originally Posted by Duke89 View Post
Burmi was less of a reach then Scheifele.
But will Scheifele go to the KHL

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07-13-2013, 05:26 PM
  #447
Bob E
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Burmi was less of a reach then Scheifele.
I agree, Duke.

See, we can agree, and even when it comes to Russian players.

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07-13-2013, 05:51 PM
  #448
BigTuna49
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I agree, Duke.

See, we can agree, and even when it comes to Russian players.
lol Hard to argue this one.

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07-14-2013, 11:34 PM
  #449
Grind
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Originally Posted by JetBlue420 View Post
From someone who just joined this board, it appears a few people have a very clear dislike or hatred even for Claude Noel and this is clouding their judgement big time.

How can people blame Noel when burmistrovs best season was 2011/2012 with noel as his coach

I see all these numbers and percentages thrown out there.. how is any of that relevant?

Whats relevant is most of burmistrovs points came in the first few games of the season

He was invisible for most of the season,

the hate or dislike some have for Noel is totally strange to me

its almost like some of you thought that this teams talent would improve just because they put on a different jersey and moved north

its apparent to me that not a single person here defending burmistrov watched any atlanta thrasher hockey games. Because if you did, you would actutally be able to see the downfalls this guy had.

Now he's off to the KHL and people will see him put up big numbers and points and think, YUP lost a star in the making, but... will completely ignore the fact that in the KHL, they dont play defence, its not north south like the NHL.. its east/west.

Burmistrov should actually do well in the KHL but just cuz he does well there, it dont mean much.

The hate tho that some have for NOEL, is abundantly clear and is truly clouding some peoples judgement big time.

LADD,LITTLE,WHEELER,KANE.

Burmistrov wasnt even ranked in the top 20, maybe top 30 of his VERY WEAK draft class.

he was a reach, a huuuge reach by atlanta who rushed him. People can blame NOEL, they can blame TNSE, they can blame CHEVY.. but you know what.. 99 percent of the blame goes to the player in this situation. Coaches want to win and win now, that is their job, the reality is.. if burmistrov was as great as everyone is pretending he was, noel would have played him more. Throw out all these irrelevant numbers and percentages you people want, take the fun out of hockey all you want.. but reality is.. NOEL made chicken salad out of chicken crap and if people seriously cant see that... i dunno, its almost like people expected this team who has been below average for years to all of a sudden be a contender cuz they moved north.

Some of you totally disregard the lack of talent on this team, you disregard the fact that he sucked in the AHL, you disregard the fact that COACHES want to win NOW.. all because of your ridiculous hatred for a coach who took a team full of cast offs and AHL calibre players and almost made the playoffs when they should have, based on talent, had a top 3 pick.
well there's no point debating posts that are as firmly routed in reality as they are in fantasy. I would suggest checking at least some of your facts before putting them out there.


also, i know this is going back a page but when i said burmi had borderline second line production when not with kane i meant including time not with kane. i know it didn't read like that, i just wanted to clarify, i didn't hink he had borderline second line production with tangradi etc, but that on whole, averaged, he did including time with kane and with tanger and friends (also when i say borderline i miean slightly below)

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07-15-2013, 03:19 PM
  #450
koth
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Did anyone ever find out how much Burmistrov actually signed for?

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