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Brunner hits the open market, signs with Devils

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Old
07-05-2013, 10:41 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amyklas View Post
Are you trying to take a jab at me because you don't understand a common phrase?

You honestly think 1 yr @ $2.5 million was a possibility? Brunner wants more term, and I doubt it's at only $2.5 million. As for the Alfie comment, it will only happen 1) if he performs well enough, making him worth it, and 2) if Holland defers the salary
No, I don't think 1 year at $2.5 was a possibility.

I think he probably wanted 4 years or more.

But at $2.5M -- even if he's never more than a speedy 20-goal, one dimensional right-handed shot -- He's a bargain --

If that's handcuffed -- cuff me.

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07-05-2013, 10:45 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Drive to win the cup?
Alfredsson was the guy who said, last year, "We can't beat the Penguins."

Not exactly the kind of "drive to win the cup" I'm looking for.

Brunner was supposedly asking for $2.5M before free agency. That seems pretty fair for a 27 year old who just posted a 24 goal pace season and also did fairly well in the playoffs.

How would a $2.5M contract handcuff us? Hell, if Alfredsson meets his bonus goals, we're going to paying him $2M next year for nothing.
Talk about handcuffing you.
This is the type of post as to why i cant standing posting here most of the time.

Holland decided to spend money on a vet, who will add drive and some secondary scoring and you, like i am sure some others, are whining about essentially nothing. Oh my god, he came out last year and was a realist. Sure, no one wants to hear their captain say that, but come on.. If you were the Sens, you knew you probably werent beating the penguins. The guy has a **** ton of drive, he put that team on his back last year and helped man them to a playoff birth. Who helped him? spezza? karlsson? anderson? come on, guy.

Holland finally grew a sack and sprouted some balls, signed two players who actually filled needs for once and let the dead weight leave. If Brunner wants more, good, go for it kid. Life is short. Same with Fil. But finally we picked to move on, adds some pieces for the cup and add some kids in the mix at the same time. Stop whining. I'll take these two contracts today over a few I saw today. Would you rather not have had Alfie this year and had Filppula and his 45-50 point "but solid two way game"? Oh hell no. that story is old.

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07-05-2013, 10:46 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
No, I don't think 1 year at $2.5 was a possibility.

I think he probably wanted 4 years or more.

But at $2.5M -- even if he's never more than a speedy 20-goal, one dimensional right-handed shot -- He's a bargain --

If that's handcuffed -- cuff me.
Again, nothing he did said he'll be a 20-goal scorer. Disappearing for half a season doesn't help a team "project" what a player will do. I'd err on the side of caution. I wouldn't hate Brunner returning, but the potential for him to flop and impact future signings in a better market exists. For that, I don't fault KH

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07-05-2013, 10:46 PM
  #104
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He's a bargain for a team that is a bottom feeder and doesn't make the playoffs.

Brunner in the playoffs is not a pretty sight. He's allergic to crashing the net, playing along the boards, and willing to take a take a hit to make a play. It seemed like the other team was on the PP when Brunner was out on the ice. He was playing in his own zone the whole time. I'm sure Holland saw the same thing and that is why he bailed on him.

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07-05-2013, 10:49 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
He's a bargain for a team that is a bottom feeder and doesn't make the playoffs.

Brunner in the playoffs is not a pretty sight. He's allergic to crashing the net, playing along the boards, and willing to take a take a hit to make a play. It seemed like the other team was on the PP when Brunner was out on the ice. He was playing in his own zone the whole time. I'm sure Holland saw the same thing and that is why he bailed on him.
Prepare for the "but he led the team in goals" posts

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07-05-2013, 10:53 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Amyklas View Post
Prepare for the "but he led the team in goals" posts
So did Ray Sheapherd. He was a 50 goal scorer and the Red Wings dumped him because he couldn't play playoffs hockey.

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07-05-2013, 11:01 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
So did Ray Sheapherd. He was a 50 goal scorer and the Red Wings dumped him because he couldn't play playoffs hockey.
Brunner didn't seem to have much of a problem with it.

Sheppard was slow. One of the slowest guys in the league. Brunner isn't.

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07-05-2013, 11:01 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
So did Ray Sheapherd. He was a 50 goal scorer and the Red Wings dumped him because he couldn't play playoffs hockey.
But he wasn't that bad in the playoffs either...

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07-05-2013, 11:01 PM
  #109
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The way I see it Alfie should give us a year of at least 40 point production and solid all around play if he plays with Datsyuk and Zetterberg. As much as I hated Abdelkader playing with Datsyuk last year he still has value and can bring size and physicality we're lacking in the top six to hopefully our third line. Tatar has at least earned a spot on the third line while Brunner's style of play doesn't belong in the bottom six.

Brunner shouldn't have a problem finding a team that needs a goalscorer but Alfie's a better player to win now we need to give Tatar and Nyquist a shot at somepoint. I know I'd feel more comfortable with Alfie and Nyquist in the top 6 come playoff time than Brunner.

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07-05-2013, 11:09 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amyklas View Post
Again, nothing he did said he'll be a 20-goal scorer. Disappearing for half a season doesn't help a team "project" what a player will do. I'd err on the side of caution. I wouldn't hate Brunner returning, but the potential for him to flop and impact future signings in a better market exists. For that, I don't fault KH
Nothing he did says 20 goal scorer? Is that really your argument?

You know that he was on pace for MORE than 20 goals, even with the massive slump?

You know that Brunner, including playoffs scored 17 goals and 18 assists in 58 games last year?

17 goals in 58 games. Doesn't that indicate 20 goal potential to you?

You know who scored 17 goals on Detroit last year?
Brunner 17
Datsyuk 18
Franzen 18

And that's it.
You know who didn't score 17 goals last year despite first/second line minutes and gobs of powerplay time?

Daniel Alfredsson (14 in 57 games).

Look, I ain't saying Brunner is great. But he's a gifted, right-handed shooter who scores and has good playmaking ability.
There is absolutely no good reason to believe he won't get better as he learns the league.
He's got the speed. He's got the skill. He's got the hands.

Later in the year it was revealed he's a bit of an eccentric personality. And maybe the corporate style Red Wings don't like personality

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07-05-2013, 11:11 PM
  #111
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For his first year in the NHL, Brunner's offensive talent was very good, and he was even a big offensive threat in the playoffs. That's all true, and that's what you see if you look at his stats. However, if you watched him every game of the season there are other noteworthy details.

First of all, he came straight from playing pro in Europe to an NHL that had been sitting longer than usual. When Brunner started, he was in peak season form while his NHL peers were still trying to shake the dust off. It was during that early part of the season that Brunner did almost all of his goal scoring. When the rest of the NHL got into its rhythm, it also started playing Brunner harder defensively. As a result of those two developments, Brunner went into a tremendous drought.

When Brunner started having trouble scoring, the Wings stuck with him at first. But it was a shortened season and the Wings have other young players who deserve a shot. Eventually, they demoted Brunner. Brunner wasn't demoted for very long before he was given a second chance. So, if that's where Brunner's problems with the Wings come from, then he has ego problems. Even after given a second chance, he didn't really respond well.

The last point to make about Brunner's play is that he is a one-trick-pony. A lot of European players aren't very physical players; that's not what I mean. What I mean is that Brunner was a liability defensively. He was absolutely brutal in his own end.

Getting rid of a bad attitude and giving another young player a shot might be a good thing.

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07-05-2013, 11:17 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amyklas View Post
and yet he somehow just wasn't worth $2.5 - 3 million per year for 4+ years. Don't know about you, but there were an awful lot of times last year where Brunner passed up a shot, only to force himself into the corner with nowhere to go or throw an ill-advised pass into the middle that didn't result in anything but another missed chance.

Living off a stat line isn't the way to evaluate people
So citing goal scoring ability for a goal scorer is wrong? Wow silly me for valuing a player who was basically a rookie and playing in north American for the first time and produced more goals than anyone else on the team in the playoffs. But herpaderp stats are bad,yo!

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07-05-2013, 11:17 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Nothing he did says 20 goal scorer? Is that really your argument?

You know that he was on pace for MORE than 20 goals, even with the massive slump?

You know that Brunner, including playoffs scored 17 goals and 18 assists in 58 games last year?

17 goals in 58 games. Doesn't that indicate 20 goal potential to you?

You know who scored 17 goals on Detroit last year?
Brunner 17
Datsyuk 18
Franzen 18

And that's it.
You know who didn't score 17 goals last year despite first/second line minutes and gobs of powerplay time?

Daniel Alfredsson (14 in 57 games).

Look, I ain't saying Brunner is great. But he's a gifted, right-handed shooter who scores and has good playmaking ability.
There is absolutely no good reason to believe he won't get better as he learns the league.
He's got the speed. He's got the skill. He's got the hands.

Later in the year it was revealed he's a bit of an eccentric personality. And maybe the corporate style Red Wings don't like personality
Yep, i don't see one early scoring streak as indicative of him being a 20-goal scorer. That's my argument. Because I saw plenty that said teams figured him out, and he lost confidence, which is death to scoring players. So why would I suspect he will be a 20-goal scorer based on that production?

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07-05-2013, 11:17 PM
  #114
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10 goals in first 19 games

2 goals in last 25 games

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07-05-2013, 11:18 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
This is the type of post as to why i cant standing posting here most of the time.
You don't like posts you disagree with, eh?


Quote:
Holland decided to spend money on a vet, who will add drive and some secondary scoring and you, like i am sure some others, are whining about essentially nothing. Oh my god, he came out last year and was a realist. Sure, no one wants to hear their captain say that, but come on.. If you were the Sens, you knew you probably werent beating the penguins. The guy has a **** ton of drive, he put that team on his back last year and helped man them to a playoff birth. Who helped him? spezza? karlsson? anderson? come on, guy.
I bet the Chicago Blackhawks are glad that Jonathan Toews, after game 4, didn't say "Probably Not" when asked if Chicago could come back.

I don't want to beat up Alfie too much ... but seriously, if you're in ROUND TWO of the playoffs and feel that victory is unlikely -- in today's NHL ... then ... Well, I just don't understand that.

He didn't put that team on his back last year. If anything, he road the emergence of Kyle Turris, who was by far the best player on the team.


Quote:
Holland finally grew a sack and sprouted some balls, signed two players who actually filled needs for once and let the dead weight leave.
Holland signed the carbon copies of the guys who just left.
We're still a small team. Only now we're considerably older.


Quote:
If Brunner wants more, good, go for it kid. Life is short. Same with Fil. But finally we picked to move on, adds some pieces for the cup and add some kids in the mix at the same time. Stop whining. I'll take these two contracts today over a few I saw today. Would you rather not have had Alfie this year and had Filppula and his 45-50 point "but solid two way game"? Oh hell no. that story is old.
I'd rather have Brunner than Alfie. I'd rather have Morrow than Alfie. I'd rather have Iginla than Alfie. I'd rather have Filppula than Alfie. I'd rather have Grabovski than Alfie. I;d rather have Setoguchi for a second round pick than Alfie.

Daniel Alfredsson was nowhere near my list of priorities. And neither was Weiss.

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07-05-2013, 11:18 PM
  #116
Amyklas
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Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
So citing goal scoring ability for a goal scorer is wrong? Wow silly me for valuing a player who was basically a rookie and playing in north American for the first time and produced more goals than anyone else on the team in the playoffs. But herpaderp stats are bad,yo!
Plenty of others on here have made the point about his goal scoring and the other aspects of his game that simply won't be found in the box score. herpaderp

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07-05-2013, 11:19 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
10 goals in first 19 games

2 goals in last 25 games
Actually it was 5 goals in his last 14 games.

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07-05-2013, 11:19 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
10 goals in first 19 games

2 goals in last 25 games
Way to leave out the 5 goals in 14 playoff games good for #1 on the team.

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07-05-2013, 11:20 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Amyklas View Post
Yep, i don't see one early scoring streak as indicative of him being a 20-goal scorer. That's my argument. Because I saw plenty that said teams figured him out, and he lost confidence, which is death to scoring players. So why would I suspect he will be a 20-goal scorer based on that production?
How dis this player who was figure figured out and had no confidence turn it around and score goals at the most difficult time of the year?

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07-05-2013, 11:22 PM
  #120
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How dis this player who was figure figured out and had no confidence turn it around and score goals at the most difficult time of the year?
I'd buy that if wasn't 5 whole goals

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07-05-2013, 11:23 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Amyklas View Post
Plenty of others on here have made the point about his goal scoring and the other aspects of his game that simply won't be found in the box score. herpaderp
You are arguing he can't score goals. People are shoving it in your face that he can. You have absolutely nothing to back up your argument. Why do I get the feeling you are the type that would be singing his praises had he re-signed. Lolz welcome to hf.

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07-05-2013, 11:25 PM
  #122
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You are arguing he can't score goals. People are shoving it in your face that he can. You have absolutely nothing to back up your argument. Why do I get the feeling you are the type that would be singing his praises had he re-signed. Lolz welcome to hf.
Shoving it in my face? 10 in 19 games is great...2 in 25 is more telling. 5 in 14 is great, except it's not a great total, even if it's the most on the Wings that playoff season. His value is PURELY in goal scoring, and to me, he doesn't do nearly enough of that.

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07-05-2013, 11:26 PM
  #123
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I'd buy that if wasn't 5 whole goals
But but he was figured out and had no confidence. How did score more goals, even if it was 5,more than anyone else? BTW 5 goals in 14 playoff games is nothing to sneeze at. Especially for a rookie...

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07-05-2013, 11:27 PM
  #124
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I'm serious.
The guy scored 17 goals -- second best on the team -- in 58 games.

Sure he was hot at the beginning and cold toward the end before finding his game again.

But the end result is 17 goals -- second best on the team, in 58 games.

Now, nobody is advocating a 12-year-deal with $4M a year like streaky/slumpy Floater Franzen.

We're talking about 3 or 4 years at $2.5M a year.

I just don't understand how anyone views this as a bad deal.

Maybe the numbers are off. Maybe he wanted $3.5M. And then, yeah, it's trickier.

But if the reported numbers are accurate (I've linked to the story in this thread) -- that's an entirely reasonable contract demand.

Holland wanted headlines.
That's what Alfredsson is. He wanted some love from the national media.

He wanted the headlines that say "Like the Old Days, Detroit Gets Who They Want."

And maybe there are fans who want to believe this is true.

But if you ask me, it's ********.


At best, well held our ground today

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07-05-2013, 11:27 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Nothing he did says 20 goal scorer? Is that really your argument?

You know that he was on pace for MORE than 20 goals, even with the massive slump?

You know that Brunner, including playoffs scored 17 goals and 18 assists in 58 games last year?

17 goals in 58 games. Doesn't that indicate 20 goal potential to you?
It wasn't too long ago that Ville Leino scored 19 goals and 53 points in 81 games for Philadelphia.

The Wings likely gave Brunner a fair offer. Holland said they offered him two- and three-year deals. I'm assuming those deals would've paid him somewhere between $2 and $3 million per.

He's looking for a Leino-type contract elsewhere. You have to draw the line somewhere.

I think you're underrating Alfredsson.

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