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2013 NHL Free Agent Frenzy Part 4

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Old
07-06-2013, 09:45 AM
  #701
1993
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Totally irrelevant to my point...

Somebody yesterday called Plekanec a PREMIER two-way shutdown center

Again, it may not seem like it...but I'm a fan of Plekanec

But I've rarely seen a player who has no personal accolades (all star birth, personal awards or even nominations) be so overrated by a teams fanbase.

It's reached comical levels
So 417, question for you:

If you have mold in your house, do you remove the mold or just keep putting new and pretty paint over top? I say remove the mold (DD & Gionta). You can trade Pleks for Stewart but then you still have the guys on the roster that will not take you anywhere. If we suck by trade deadline, then by all means trade Markov, Pleks, +++.

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07-06-2013, 09:46 AM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Again, any sane people would understand that most players are tradeable. Point is, I believe most people don't want to trade Plekanec mostly based on the fact that DD will be staying that's all. Personnally, I think there are a few untouchables. I would name Tinordi and even Beaulieu amongst those ones. Because we don't have anything else like that in our organization. None. Unless we believe Nygren would be a Beaulieu. Still Beaulieu brings a grit element to his game. So in order to trade Tinordi and Beaulieu, you need to get similar players in return which brings the question...why the hell would you make a lateral move? Now, as far as Plekanec is concerned, I believe that if the guy is back into shape and comes back as he was before, Eller can CLEARLY become a Plekanec. A bigger Pleks. Which to me, going back to your point, makes Pleks expendable IF AND ONLY IF we do get significant players in return. The idea is to be a better team in the end. Reason why I would have named Gallagher into the untouchable list as how many players with grit and offensive players do we have in our lineup? As small as he is. You also need some agitators in the lineup, which we don,t have. He does it all. Unless get something like that in return...why would he be more expendable? And then you add the element of youth, we build this team for the mid to long term and you have tons of reasons why some might be more untouchables than the others.

As great as Seguin could be, he is mostly a centerman and clearly doesn't seem to be at ease on the wings. Well, if everything goes well, Boston has Krejci and Bergeron for years to come. Making Seguin expendable. Seguin got them Eriksson and 3 average to good future NHL'ers. Pretty good depth, on top of everything they already have in Spooner, Knight, Khoklachev etc. So I believe it's all about can you replace the guys you trade from the inside or are you getting somebody via those trades that will replace them. If not....it makes them untouchables. I don't believe Pleks is. But at the right price. That's for sure.
Good post...I personally have guys like Price, Subban, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, Eller, Gallagher, Pacioretty, Emelin (to a certain extent) as players who form the nucleus of this team.

Plekanec, despite his role as a Habs player, does not fit into this category

And while I agree with most that I prefered if DD was the one to go...it's not very realistic. To me, DD is not even part of the equation whether we keep or trade Plekanec

I think the Habs have a ready-made replacement for Plekanec in Eller...perfect opportunity to find out just how high his value is around the league

Again...in the right deal

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Old
07-06-2013, 09:48 AM
  #703
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
He's much more physically engaged as a two way player. I think he's a better goal scorer and just has more of a presence on the ice.

When he's healthy he's a difference maker

Nothing against Plekanec...I just much prefer Kesler and so would most objective fans.
So... That's like saying Chara is better than Weber... There's no real difference. Hockey is actually really subjective. You might value things higher than me and so on. Plekanec never really played with top talent like the Sedins apart from kovy one year ... I fail to see the difference. Maybe one of them is superior, but they're both in the same class of player. Grass is always greener on the other side. I'd also blame the media for this. Plekanec and Weiss have to be two of the most underrated 2-way C in the league

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07-06-2013, 09:50 AM
  #704
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I'm talking about the possibility of moving Plekanec right now, today...don't think it was realistic to move him at the deadline.

Furthermore, i'm not criticizing Bergevin. I like the job he's done so far...my post is addressed to those who are so stead fast against trading Plekanec

He's one of the few players with value the Habs can trade...he's an asset. Not a core member of this team moving forward

But of course, that doesn't mean I trade him for just anything. But this team needs more assets
No question I can see Pleks being a valuable trade asset going forward, when the time is right. Bergevin has to walk a bit of a tight-rope and timing is everything in these things and one imho has to take into consideration not only immediate team needs but team needs in the future, the state and depth and level of progression of the prospect pool, who's available on the trade market and what the asking price is, which can change radically in a relatively short period of time.

You know, I find it amusing reading a lot of posts on this thread and this site, and I'm not suggesting you are one of these people - I find you an astute and knowledgable poster. Many posters on here however seem to be of the view that Bergevin is in the eviable position come UFA time that he simply needs to identify the players he wants and needs, phones them up and tells them he wants and needs them on the team and tells them this is his offer and they ARE going to sign with the Habs and ignore any other offers regardless of how good (no matter how ridiculous) they are.

OR that Bergevin simply has to identify players he wants or needs on other teams, phones up the GM and tells them they ARE going to trade that player to the Habs because the Habs want and need him and that they WILL accept x players or x pick as compensation - no argument, no negotiation.

Of course Bergevin IS NOT in that eviable position and if posters on here could rid themselves of their apparent delusion regarding this fact, the quality of their posts would be immeasurably enhanced.

But all that is just one man's point of view.

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07-06-2013, 09:52 AM
  #705
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Originally Posted by FireBergevin View Post
2-way centres I'd take on the Habs over Plekanec:

Dubinsky
Staal
M.Richards
Stastny
Kesler
Backes
Laich
Stepan
Bergeron
Datsyuk
Fisher
Toews

Is Pleks faster and better defensively than some of these guys? Sure. But overall the guys listed are better 2-way forwards.
Holy moly,you must not watch much hockey...Dubinsky? Stastny? Kesler? Laich? Stepan? Fisher? Come on man. Have you and 417 ever watch a game in person?

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07-06-2013, 09:53 AM
  #706
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Nashville could be interested in Desharnais. They are desperate for skill in their top 9.

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07-06-2013, 09:54 AM
  #707
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Brooks Laich over Pleks?

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Old
07-06-2013, 09:55 AM
  #708
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Nashville could be interested in Desharnais. They are desperate for skill in their top 9.
Go get that hornqvist kid !

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07-06-2013, 09:56 AM
  #709
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Originally Posted by FireBergevin View Post
2-way centres I'd take on the Habs over Plekanec:

Dubinsky
Staal....Jordan?? No
M.Richards
Stastny
Kesler
Backes
Laich
Stepan
Bergeron
Datsyuk
Fisher
Toews

Is Pleks faster and better defensively than some of these guys? Sure. But overall the guys listed are better 2-way forwards.
That is ridiculous.

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07-06-2013, 09:57 AM
  #710
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I thought this thread was about UFAs?

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07-06-2013, 10:04 AM
  #711
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DD and Moen for Gaustad?

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Old
07-06-2013, 10:06 AM
  #712
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Damien Brunner, couldn't he help our top9?
Galchenyuk - Eller - Brunner

Or Jagr?
Bourque - Plekanec - Jagr
Galchenyuk - Eller - Briere

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07-06-2013, 10:06 AM
  #713
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I'm still hoping that we can sign Murray to a good contract.

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07-06-2013, 10:07 AM
  #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Go get that hornqvist kid !
Big contract. I prefer getting a prospect like Austin Watson for him. But, doubtful.

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07-06-2013, 10:08 AM
  #715
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Good post...I personally have guys like Price, Subban, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Galchenyuk, Eller, Gallagher, Pacioretty, Emelin (to a certain extent) as players who form the nucleus of this team.

Plekanec, despite his role as a Habs player, does not fit into this category

And while I agree with most that I prefered if DD was the one to go...it's not very realistic. To me, DD is not even part of the equation whether we keep or trade Plekanec

I think the Habs have a ready-made replacement for Plekanec in Eller...perfect opportunity to find out just how high his value is around the league

Again...in the right deal
While MaxPac is amongst my favorite players....I reserve the right to watch him closely this year. If with everything that had happened to him he hesitates in engaging physically and become less productive....he's clearly not as in my nucleus that he used to be. Rest, I totally agree.

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07-06-2013, 10:10 AM
  #716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnapVirus View Post
Damien Brunner, couldn't he help our top9?
Galchenyuk - Eller - Brunner

Or Jagr?
Bourque - Plekanec - Jagr
Galchenyuk - Eller - Briere
Again we're actually at 62.9M to 63.4M. If you want to sign an another player, you have to shed some salaries.

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07-06-2013, 10:11 AM
  #717
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
And yet despite being an overrated shutdown centre, his annual season point totals are virtually the same as the Herculean Bobby Ryan.

Yep. The wine on the next table is always a better vintage.
Plekanec and Ryan are two totally different players

What's the relevance here?

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07-06-2013, 10:13 AM
  #718
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Originally Posted by Marc-E- View Post
Again we're actually at 62.9M to 63.4M. If you want to sign an another player, you have to shed some salaries.
you forget that Gionta and Emelin will be on IR for the first months.
That free up almost 7M$.

And when we remove Gionta from IR, we trade him.
OR probably at that time Briere will be on it

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07-06-2013, 10:13 AM
  #719
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Originally Posted by 1993 View Post
Holy moly,you must not watch much hockey...Dubinsky? Stastny? Kesler? Laich? Stepan? Fisher? Come on man. Have you and 417 ever watch a game in person?
I didn't put that list...not sure why you're naming me

For the record though...yes I'd take Kesler before Plekanec

The rest is pretty much a wash for me

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07-06-2013, 10:17 AM
  #720
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
So... That's like saying Chara is better than Weber... There's no real difference. Hockey is actually really subjective. You might value things higher than me and so on. Plekanec never really played with top talent like the Sedins apart from kovy one year ... I fail to see the difference. Maybe one of them is superior, but they're both in the same class of player. Grass is always greener on the other side. I'd also blame the media for this. Plekanec and Weiss have to be two of the most underrated 2-way C in the league
We're getting away from the main point here.

It's not about Plekanec vs Kesler

It's about where this team is, where it's going and where it wants to be.

I think Plekanec could be used as a piece to get this team to where it wants to be.

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07-06-2013, 10:19 AM
  #721
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
While MaxPac is amongst my favorite players....I reserve the right to watch him closely this year. If with everything that had happened to him he hesitates in engaging physically and become less productive....he's clearly not as in my nucleus that he used to be. Rest, I totally agree.
Actually, I was pondering whether MaxPac might be enough to get Stewart out of St. Louis with perhaps some additional tweaking. Stewart definitely has some consistency problems but brings size AND TOUGHNESS and CAN PLAY. If I'm Bergevin, it's something I'd consider. MaxPac does have a good contract but I'm starting to wonder whether he's been drinking the same cool-aid as Laroque. It might be a bit premature for such a move, but I really wonder...

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07-06-2013, 10:21 AM
  #722
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Plekanec is a world class player. A top centre for his country. Plays against the best players in the world internationally, and plays against the best players in the NHL with sub-par wingers, while watching his teammates get easier assignments with better wingers. He has never said a bad thing about the Habs, has been nothing but honest when he hasn't played his best. If the Habs let him go, a smart GM who is capable of having a top six centre that mirrors Plekanec's strengths and weaknesses would add him to that team and I have no doubt that a true contender would go very, very far with him. It's why we have to hope that he's still here when Eller is in that 25-27 range and especially 2-3 years from now when Galchenyuk really gets the ball rolling. Plekanec is a great centre, losing him would be almost equal to when the team was a below .500 club without Markov.

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07-06-2013, 10:22 AM
  #723
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Originally Posted by 1993 View Post
So 417, question for you:

If you have mold in your house, do you remove the mold or just keep putting new and pretty paint over top? I say remove the mold (DD & Gionta). You can trade Pleks for Stewart but then you still have the guys on the roster that will not take you anywhere. If we suck by trade deadline, then by all means trade Markov, Pleks, +++.
Not really interested in answer questions about mold...

I'm not good at proposals, but since you bring up the Blues

I'd be interested in a move where Plek +??? Wld be going the other for a combination of players like Stewart/Polak/Berglund/Oshie

That's the kind of move I would make, especially for a guy like Polak

But I don't claim to know the price to pay for such move

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07-06-2013, 10:24 AM
  #724
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Originally Posted by SnapVirus View Post
you forget that Gionta and Emelin will be on IR for the first months.
That free up almost 7M$.

And when we remove Gionta from IR, we trade him.
OR probably at that time Briere will be on it
Again, Bergevin has to figure what he's gonna do with Desharnais and Gionta. Also, Markov. Is he still in our plans (doubt it). Are we doing a deal involving Tomas Plekanec for cheaper players? We all talk about Stewart from St-Louis, but it could go down the road guys like Jaden Schwartz and Ty Rattie for Plekanec. But, I'm just speculating.

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Old
07-06-2013, 10:29 AM
  #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireBergevin View Post
2-way centres I'd take on the Habs over Plekanec:

Dubinsky
Staal
M.Richards
Stastny
Kesler
Backes
Laich
Stepan
Bergeron
Datsyuk
Fisher
Toews

Is Pleks faster and better defensively than some of these guys? Sure. But overall the guys listed are better 2-way forwards.
Based on that list I'm assuming you think better = more physical.

Laich, Stepan, Dubinsky, Fisher better than Plekanec? Wow, just wow.

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