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Old
07-07-2013, 10:45 PM
  #351
bjac
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MB made a 2 year commitment to Briere, so comparing this signing to Gio/Cammy or even the Gomez trade is unfair. Those were long term commitments, Briere is not... I don't understand how some or just pretending that this isn't a huge factor in this deal.

These signings are to allow the team to compete for the couple of years that it will take to fill the team out with our own prospects. People should relax, MB is still planning for the future.

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07-07-2013, 10:59 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by bjac View Post
MB made a 2 year commitment to Briere, so comparing this signing to Gio/Cammy or even the Gomez trade is unfair. Those were long term commitments, Briere is not... I don't understand how some or just pretending that this isn't a huge factor in this deal.
Nobody is trying to say that it's near the disaster that Gomez was. Just that it's a similar situation in sofar as we go and make a move that doesn't make any sense at all. Another small forward who's past his prime.

Just because it's only two years doesn't make this deal any better. It's just not as worse.
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Originally Posted by bjac View Post
These signings are to allow the team to compete for the couple of years that it will take to fill the team out with our own prospects. People should relax, MB is still planning for the future.
Why? Please explain this one to me because it doesn't make any sense.

We have tons of guys that bring what this dude brings to the table. There's no reason to make this move when we have explicit needs on the wing and on the D. How the hell does this move do anything for us? We needed another small forward like we needed a hole in the head.

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07-07-2013, 11:29 PM
  #353
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No matther how big of a mistake management makes I just don't want a knee jerk reaction or letting the fan/media presure them into going something to try to over correct or fix it, chances are it will just make thing worst... I'm just hoping for better asset management.

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07-08-2013, 02:27 AM
  #354
bjac
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Why? Please explain this one to me because it doesn't make any sense.

We have tons of guys that bring what this dude brings to the table. There's no reason to make this move when we have explicit needs on the wing and on the D. How the hell does this move do anything for us? We needed another small forward like we needed a hole in the head.
Its needed depth. The reality is that a lot of the young guys need more time and shouldn't be rushed. When injuries hit, having extras help out. The Habs greatest downfall last year was injuries and the inability to replace them with NHL skaters. The UFA crop wasn't very good this year and MB stayed away from the contracts that will haunt teams. He picked up depth and only committed to 2 years.

You talk about a gritty top 6 winger and a dman like they are easy to get. Which gritty winger UFA would you want considering the ridiculous contracts they got? Which D-man would be our saviour? And would they even sign here? You also talk about trades as if this were a video game. When MB is looking for a gritty top 6 winger and a top 4 dman most teams are going to ask for a lot, probably a price tag that isn't worth it. The list of available top 6 wingers and top 4 d man is already short enough before adding the extra criteria based on this teams "needs".

On top of that, you are talking as if you actually KNOW that MB didn't even bother trying to get these pieces. The reality is that you have no clue and are judging a situation blindly. Not to mention the offseason is not over, and these issues might be addressed at a later time.

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07-08-2013, 02:38 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by habsroom View Post
We have a good young roster that includes a norris trophy winner,an all star goalie and an future elite #1 centre not to mention some young skilled wingers and some young defensemen with top pairing talent.

We have a great group of prospects from a top goalie to a group of defensemen that should play in the nhl to a forward group that has skill and size. Plus we have all our draft picks for next years draft.

This team will have success this year and for many years to follow. The roster looks good to me plus we have about 4 million if we want to pick up another player now or maybe 2 players at the trade deadline.we have added toughness to the team in parros/prust/tinordi/moen/white.yes we have some small forwards but maybe we trade 1 or 2 of them this year who knows.

No team is perfect in the nhl but this team is on the right track and has talent in the nhl and more to come in the minors so why not cheer for them instead of ripping every move they make and ripping every player that has a bad game or 2. If you just want to be a negative person go cheer for the leafs they have been losers since colored tv!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go habs go


CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Danny Briere ($4.000m)
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / David Desharnais ($3.500m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.870m)
Alex Galchenyuk ($3.225m) / Lars Eller ($1.325m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Ryan White ($0.722m) / Brandon Prust ($2.500m)
George Parros ($0.938m)
DEFENSEMEN
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / P.K. Subban ($2.875m)
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($2.000m)
Jarred Tinordi ($1.083m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
Francis Bouillon ($1.500m) / Davis Drewiske ($0.638m)
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)
Peter Budaj ($1.400m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,632,708; BONUSES: $2,697,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $3,364,792


Really? Has he ever stolen us at least ONE playoff series since he was drafted?

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Old
07-08-2013, 04:50 AM
  #356
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We need to make changes, we cannot be positive until we get size and toughness, right now, we are among the smallest teams in the league.

1) Trade Desharnais, Markov, Moen and Diaz
2) Acquire Coburn, Talbot and Perron

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gionta
Bourque - Briere - Perron
Galchenyuk - Eller - Gallagher
Prust - White - Parros

Gorges - Subban
Coburn - Emelin
Tinordi - Bouillon

Price
Budaj
how? the magical trade fairy where you get players without sending anything the other way?

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Old
07-08-2013, 08:49 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by RingsOfS4turn View Post
Really? Has he ever stolen us at least ONE playoff series since he was drafted?
"all star goalie" means Price was in the NHL All-Star game.

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07-08-2013, 09:22 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by bjac View Post

You talk about a gritty top 6 winger and a dman like they are easy to get. Which gritty winger UFA would you want considering the ridiculous contracts they got?
Wait Matt Hendricks for less money than Briere for twice the term is a ridiculous contract ? Or is he nor gritty enough?. Your argument is fundamentally flawed, we did not need to sign a big name like Clarkson or Clowe. These contracts were not the only ones available, and he ( and his 10-12 minutes per game) are a hell of a lot more what we need than staschy at 5 min every second game.

And your last sentence is precisely the type of mealey mouthed excuse offered up by apologists who seem content based on unrealistic hopes that things might magically get better or who are unwilling or incapable of recognizing the teams serious and fatal flaws. Go back and watch the Ottawa series and ask yourself if depth in the form of a one dimensional defensive liability smurf would have reversed our fortunes. If you think the answer is yes, come out and say it.

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07-08-2013, 09:31 AM
  #359
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Get Gauthier back ASAP
Why does the Bell Centre have a clogged toilet? Idiot probably couldn't fix that either.

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07-08-2013, 09:34 AM
  #360
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
Wait Matt Hendricks for less money than Briere for twice the term is a ridiculous contract ? Or is he nor gritty enough?. Your argument is fundamentally flawed, we did not need to sign a big name like Clarkson or Clowe. These contracts were not the only ones available, and he ( and his 10-12 minutes per game) are a hell of a lot more what we need than staschy at 5 min every second game.

And your last sentence is precisely the type of mealey mouthed excuse offered up by apologists who seem content based on unrealistic hopes that things might magically get better or who are unwilling or incapable of recognizing the teams serious and fatal flaws. Go back and watch the Ottawa series and ask yourself if depth in the form of a one dimensional defensive liability smurf would have reversed our fortunes. If you think the answer is yes, come out and say it.
we already have a guy on our 4th making 1.85 Mil per...

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07-08-2013, 09:34 AM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It's not what he's doing though... He did the exact opposite. He went out on the free agent market and got the exact opposite of what we needed and what he said we needed. It is a total contradiction. So YES he deserves to get blasted for this.

As for exhibiting patience, sure... I'm not arguing that he should be replaced (and I don't think I've seen anyone else argue this) but the Briere move really shook the confidence that I had in him. This was a really stupid move.
Actually you are wrong on this one....

MB is building through the draft and signings like Briere are only stop-gap/bandaid solutions while the bigger plan unfolds. He is trying to maintain a winning environment with veterans who demonstrate good leadership and professionalism. It is exactly how winners are built as the youngsters, despite their talent need to learn how to win and behave like pros on and off of the ice.

This is the reason that I would like to see Jagr brought in for one season. Players like him and Briere are far more creative than any of our current veteran forwards and can be a tremendous influence on Galchenyuk, Gallagher and possibly even Pacioretty, Desharnais and Eller.

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07-08-2013, 09:36 AM
  #362
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YES, we could have traded Subban + Galchenyuk for Yakupov!
How did we ever let such a highly sought after individual like Mcguire slip through our fingers? Which lucky team snatched him up after we fumbled that TD pass?
As has been shown numerous times here, McGuire never proposed this as something he would do.

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07-08-2013, 09:36 AM
  #363
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As has been shown numerous times here, McGuire never proposed this as something he would do.
Yeah he wanted to trade the 3rd overall+ for Jordan Staal.

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07-08-2013, 09:43 AM
  #364
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Yeah he wanted to trade the 3rd overall+ for Jordan Staal.
I am not proposing Mcguire as GM but he didn't propose that either. More stuff spread by people who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who thought they heard him say something on the radio.

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07-08-2013, 09:46 AM
  #365
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Originally Posted by bjac View Post
Its needed depth. The reality is that a lot of the young guys need more time and shouldn't be rushed. When injuries hit, having extras help out. The Habs greatest downfall last year was injuries and the inability to replace them with NHL skaters. The UFA crop wasn't very good this year and MB stayed away from the contracts that will haunt teams. He picked up depth and only committed to 2 years.
Which young forwards on our team need more time and that Briere helps insulate? Because Gallagher earned his way into the top-6 by being one of our best players. Eller also earned a greater role on the team by outplaying many others. Arguably the only player Briere could potentially insulate is Galchenyuk in case injuries occur. And really at the end of the day it would be good for him to spend "some" time in the top-6 or centering the 3rd line if there are injuries.

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You talk about a gritty top 6 winger and a dman like they are easy to get. Which gritty winger UFA would you want considering the ridiculous contracts they got? Which D-man would be our saviour? And would they even sign here? You also talk about trades as if this were a video game. When MB is looking for a gritty top 6 winger and a top 4 dman most teams are going to ask for a lot, probably a price tag that isn't worth it. The list of available top 6 wingers and top 4 d man is already short enough before adding the extra criteria based on this teams "needs".

On top of that, you are talking as if you actually KNOW that MB didn't even bother trying to get these pieces. The reality is that you have no clue and are judging a situation blindly. Not to mention the offseason is not over, and these issues might be addressed at a later time.
So on the one hand you want us to name the players we would want but then you will also criticize us because we are judging the situation blindly. Simply put there were 4-5 big forwards that were available and potentially a few more that are currently on teams in need of cap space like Stewart from STL. So stop acting like it was an impossible task, there were lots of options. And even if it was too expensive why get someone that worsens the size problem instead of someone like Ryder or Jagr who provide similar benefits but don't worsen the problem?

What we do know for sure is that MB values Briere at 4m a year and Lecavalier at 3m a year. Can you explain that to me?

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07-08-2013, 09:47 AM
  #366
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Yeah he wanted to trade the 3rd overall+ for Jordan Staal.
He never said that. He also never said the Habs should trade PK for the #1 overall, he said if he was the Oilers GM he would target that from MTL.

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07-08-2013, 09:52 AM
  #367
Estimated_Prophet
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I am not proposing Mcguire as GM but he didn't propose that either. More stuff spread by people who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who thought they heard him say something on the radio.
Regardless....McGuire is a pathetic boob.

He doesn't actually understand the game at all and he just completely embarrasses himself every time he opens his mouth. To less knowledgeable fans, he may sound like he knows what he is talking about but to those who understand the game.......not so much.

I have said in the past the a team that would hand over the keys to their team to McGuire would be akin to NASA scouting A Star Trek convention for their future CEO.

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07-08-2013, 09:55 AM
  #368
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Originally Posted by calder candidate View Post
No matther how big of a mistake management makes I just don't want a knee jerk reaction or letting the fan/media presure them into going something to try to over correct or fix it, chances are it will just make thing worst... I'm just hoping for better asset management.
Fortunately, the opinions of "fans" and wannabe experts on these boards have zero impact on the decisions made by management. Otherwise, this team would be in big trouble.

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07-08-2013, 09:58 AM
  #369
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
Wait Matt Hendricks for less money than Briere for twice the term is a ridiculous contract ? Or is he nor gritty enough?. Your argument is fundamentally flawed, we did not need to sign a big name like Clarkson or Clowe. These contracts were not the only ones available, and he ( and his 10-12 minutes per game) are a hell of a lot more what we need than staschy at 5 min every second game.

And your last sentence is precisely the type of mealey mouthed excuse offered up by apologists who seem content based on unrealistic hopes that things might magically get better or who are unwilling or incapable of recognizing the teams serious and fatal flaws. Go back and watch the Ottawa series and ask yourself if depth in the form of a one dimensional defensive liability smurf would have reversed our fortunes. If you think the answer is yes, come out and say it.
Matt Hendricks? Is that seriously your solution to this team? Do you even watch hockey? The guy is a 4th line player and his contract is probably the worst one given during this FA madness.

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So on the one hand you want us to name the players we would want but then you will also criticize us because we are judging the situation blindly. Simply put there were 4-5 big forwards that were available and potentially a few more that are currently on teams in need of cap space like Stewart from STL. So stop acting like it was an impossible task, there were lots of options. And even if it was too expensive why get someone that worsens the size problem instead of someone like Ryder or Jagr who provide similar benefits but don't worsen the problem?
You're implying that Bergevin didn't even try to sign the players you listed and that's simply not the case. UFA have the choice to sign where they will and not getting them can't be seen as a failure. You talk of a guy like Stewart... What would you give up for him that St-Louis would want?


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07-08-2013, 10:00 AM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Actually you are wrong on this one....

MB is building through the draft and signings like Briere are only stop-gap/bandaid solutions while the bigger plan unfolds. He is trying to maintain a winning environment with veterans who demonstrate good leadership and professionalism. It is exactly how winners are built as the youngsters, despite their talent need to learn how to win and behave like pros on and off of the ice.

This is the reason that I would like to see Jagr brought in for one season. Players like him and Briere are far more creative than any of our current veteran forwards and can be a tremendous influence on Galchenyuk, Gallagher and possibly even Pacioretty, Desharnais and Eller.
That's what I hope it is too, next moveS will tell us if that is the plan. the signing of Briere alone is not an indication of that, so far he's just Ryder's replacement.

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07-08-2013, 10:01 AM
  #371
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Its needed depth. The reality is that a lot of the young guys need more time and shouldn't be rushed. When injuries hit, having extras help out. The Habs greatest downfall last year was injuries and the inability to replace them with NHL skaters. The UFA crop wasn't very good this year and MB stayed away from the contracts that will haunt teams. He picked up depth and only committed to 2 years.
Depth? Seriously, you think we needed MORE shrimps on this team?

We have Plecs, Gionta, DD and Gallagher.... Yet for some reason you think we need ANOTHER one of these guys? Why? I mean seriously man why the **** would we need another shrimp on this team? We have too many already. We are already too easy to play against in the playoffs when the whistles get put away. We got bullied by the freaking Ottawa Senators dude...

Please don't tell me that we needed depth either because that's something that we have in abundance. We've got no number one centers but several who could be number two guys. Galchenyuk, Elller, DD, Plecs... we don't need another one esp a guy who isn't capable of playing hard minutes.

Absolutely no reason to do this.

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You talk about a gritty top 6 winger and a dman like they are easy to get. Which gritty winger UFA would you want considering the ridiculous contracts they got? Which D-man would be our saviour? And would they even sign here? You also talk about trades as if this were a video game. When MB is looking for a gritty top 6 winger and a top 4 dman most teams are going to ask for a lot, probably a price tag that isn't worth it. The list of available top 6 wingers and top 4 d man is already short enough before adding the extra criteria based on this teams "needs".
Have you even read my posts? Wake up.

Everyone knows its hard to get these guys. I have not blamed MB for not getting those players. I've said we should target those kinds of guys but nobody is saying they'd be easy to get. I haven't hammered him for not getting anyone so what are you talking about?

As for your ridiculous talk about video game proposals... please cite some examples. Because I've talked about what I think it would've taken to get Ryan but was very clear that nobody knows what it would've taken. We can only speculate.

I haven't hammered him on any of this. I have hammered him on Briere because it's not what we need and it was a stupid thing to do. So don't put words into my mouth here.
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On top of that, you are talking as if you actually KNOW that MB didn't even bother trying to get these pieces. The reality is that you have no clue and are judging a situation blindly. Not to mention the offseason is not over, and these issues might be addressed at a later time.
BS. I haven't done this at all. I've said that I hope he's doing something about this and that's it. I have no idea if he's doing this or not. But I sure as hell hope he is because we desperately need a shutdown guy. I thought that's what he was doing, but then he comes back with Briere so who knows what the **** this guy is thinking? Offseason isn't over. I haven't bashed him for anything other than Briere. Go read my posts before coming up with this crap.
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Actually you are wrong on this one....

MB is building through the draft and signings like Briere are only stop-gap/bandaid solutions while the bigger plan unfolds. He is trying to maintain a winning environment with veterans who demonstrate good leadership and professionalism. It is exactly how winners are built as the youngsters, despite their talent need to learn how to win and behave like pros on and off of the ice.

This is the reason that I would like to see Jagr brought in for one season. Players like him and Briere are far more creative than any of our current veteran forwards and can be a tremendous influence on Galchenyuk, Gallagher and possibly even Pacioretty, Desharnais and Eller.
Our biggest problems are:

- We're too small up front
- We lack a real shutdown guy

So it makes no sense to go out and get a smaller forward. We were ALREADY way too small. So adding this guy doesn't make sense and yes it does go directly against what MB was preaching.

As for it being a stopgap... we didn't need this. We already have this. We have DD who fills this role and tons of other guys who can step in on center. All this guy does is steal easy minutes from younger players who should be getting them.

We'd be better off doing nothing and just coming back with what we had. No reason to do this at all. None.

The purpose of a Band-Aid is to stop the bleeding from a wound. We weren't hurting in this area. Iginla would've been a Band-Aid fix because he's an older power forward who would act as a stop-gap. THAT would make sense. Bobby Ryan would make sense. A shut-down guy would make sense. Briere doesn't. It's like we had a big cut on our forehead and decided to put a Band-Aid on our unblemished finger. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever...


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 07-08-2013 at 10:12 AM.
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07-08-2013, 10:31 AM
  #372
Estimated_Prophet
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As for it being a stopgap... we didn't need this. We already have this. We have DD who fills this role and tons of other guys who can step in on center. All this guy does is steal easy minutes from younger players who should be getting them.

We'd be better off doing nothing and just coming back with what we had. No reason to do this at all. None.

The purpose of a Band-Aid is to stop the bleeding from a wound. We weren't hurting in this area. Iginla would've been a Band-Aid fix because he's an older power forward who would act as a stop-gap. THAT would make sense. Bobby Ryan would make sense. A shut-down guy would make sense. Briere doesn't. It's like we had a big cut on our forehead and decided to put a Band-Aid on our unblemished finger. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever...
The Band-Aid was clearly for the Cole/Ryder spot in the lineup.

Like I said, MB is building the team primarily through the draft. Briere was signed to a two year contract....not a big deal. At the end of his contract McCarron, DLR, Collberg etc. will be ready for their time. I suspect that he will try to move players like Gionta, Markov and/or Plekanec in the relatively near future if they can help to acquire more size near the top of the lineup. He will only do this if the current team shows regression or the return is just too good to turn down, as the plan is to keep the big club headed forward while the long term plan is nurtured by it's success.

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07-08-2013, 10:35 AM
  #373
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You're implying that Bergevin didn't even try to sign the players you listed and that's simply not the case. UFA have the choice to sign where they will and not getting them can't be seen as a failure. You talk of a guy like Stewart... What would you give up for him that St-Louis would want?
I didn't imply he didn't try I implied he failed to get one. At the end of the day it's his job to build a winning team if he consistently fails to get the players he wants/needs then it's a problem. Granted it's still early to judge but so far there haven't been any encouraging signs. In fact a case can be made that he's not a good contract negotiator.

Now if you want to argue that the price was too high and it was the better choice to not get these guys then fine I can accept that though I would have been willing to pay a similar price for both Lecavalier and Ryan. But why did he have to make the problem worse by getting Briere? Wouldn't re-signing Ryder make more sense? Wouldn't going after Jagr make more sense? Even not trading Cole would likely be the better option.

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07-08-2013, 10:38 AM
  #374
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I didn't imply he didn't try I implied he failed to get one. At the end of the day it's his job to build a winning team if he consistently fails to get the players he wants/needs then it's a problem. Granted it's still early to judge but so far there haven't been any encouraging signs. In fact a case can be made that he's not a good contract negotiator.

Now if you want to argue that the price was too high and it was the better choice to not get these guys then fine I can accept that though I would have been willing to pay a similar price for both Lecavalier and Ryan. But why did he have to make the problem worse by getting Briere? Wouldn't re-signing Ryder make more sense? Wouldn't going after Jagr make more sense? Even not trading Cole would likely be the better option.
it's his first UFA-summer as Habs GM...

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07-08-2013, 10:40 AM
  #375
Estimated_Prophet
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
it's his first UFA-summer as Habs GM...
No it is not.

He signed Prust, Bouillon and Armstrong last summer.

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