HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Stop being so negative !

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-06-2013, 09:03 PM
  #201
groovejuice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,074
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
if these 4 are in your top 6 six u are in trouble

take off your blinders my friend , go watch the finals again and see what a legit d looks like
I never said or even implied that that group of four players you mentioned were my ideal anything.

I was merely successfully negating your remarkably adolescent statement. There is always for improvement at any position, unless your name is Subban or Crosby or Stamkos.

I have been reading all day comments about players that include words like " stink, garbage, shroumph, useless," ad nauseum.

It's okay to second guess a move by the GM; that is exactly what this board is for. But the extremism and hysterical raving ( not necessarily OP I'm responding to ) is tantamount to pubescent 15 year old girls raging on their parents for daring to put spinach on their plate; too self absorbed to listen to rational explanation and too ignorant to understand the complexities of simple nutrition.

groovejuice is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:08 PM
  #202
Walksss
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 59
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemiseBleuHonnete View Post
We're now talking about how it's not so bad because it's only 2 years. Why sign him in the first place. I think the habs had their fair share of washed-up players in the past decade, might as well go for a real change for once and not sign one. People are talking like if 4 millions a year is pocket change.
The guy hasn't even had a single off ice meeting with the team and you speak as though he's already disappointed as badly as Gomez did. There is reason to be optimistic about what he could potentially bring to the team but most of the posters around here already think he's good for nothing.

Maybe he does under perform, but maybe he is motivated and come to Montreal with the right mindset and really sets a great example for the young core. Maybe he represents a model player/person, puts up the production you should be hoping for, and manages some key playoff moments. The point is, the potential for those things is there and it's the old glass half empty/full cliche. Most of the Habs "fans" around here are hardly "fans" at all and I use those quotation marks liberally.

The facts are this team barely gets any support at all from a large percentage of the fan base unless we're dominating/about to win a cup. That is nothing but a fair weather fan. Period.

And if half you guys think this debate is childish then don't click the thread. Personally I think it should be mandated reading for most of this pathetic excuse for a fan base.

Walksss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:09 PM
  #203
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
I never said or even implied that that group of four players you mentioned were my ideal anything.

I was merely successfully negating your remarkably adolescent statement. There is always for improvement at any position, unless your name is Subban or Crosby or Stamkos.

I have been reading all day comments about players that include words like " stink, garbage, shroumph, useless," ad nauseum.

It's okay to second guess a move by the GM; that is exactly what this board is for. But the extremism and hysterical raving ( not necessarily OP I'm responding to ) is tantamount to pubescent 15 year old girls raging on their parents for daring to put spinach on their plate; too self absorbed to listen to rational explanation and too ignorant to understand the complexities of simple nutrition.
well said

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:10 PM
  #204
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Molson will never state this in front of the cameras, although if you let me digress for a minute, I read an article in La Presse a few months ago (it was in the lockout period) where Molson stated, in relation to shareholders vs employess, that what really mattered is what the shareholders thought, now... what do you believe Molson is asking first and foremost from Bergevin?? Why do you think every GM in Montreal is conservative since the Habs have become a cash cow?
So why didn't we sign Lecavalier, wouldn't he have sold more jersey's than Briere?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
On the other hand, what I see is that this whole process is starting to pay dividends. Talent-wise, this team can drive offense from all three lines, and 4 of the main ingredients are just getting started (Subban, two Gallys, Eller) while we have a few other good players that should come in (Tinordi, Beaulieu, Leblanc, Collberg...), and then several others who are hitting their prime (Price, Gorges, Pac, Emelin, Diaz). This sizable core has an average age of 22. Any accumulation of talent tends to be chaotic in filling specific needs, and sometimes give redundancies, like how we had Diaz, Subban and Weber, all has offensive right handed Ds. And the funny part is that it's actually a rare thing. How you take a chance on a guy like DD who wasn't drafted and then a guy like Gallagher in the 5th round, also taken a chance on, and both end up performing, rather than other higher picks, like say, Ben Maxwell or Kyle Chipchura.
You can't include a bunch of prospects to claim the average age of our core is 22. They might turn out great, they might turn out average, or they might suck. The core of the team right now includes older players like Markov, Gionta, Plekanec. Without those guys we are not a playoff team. So you're hoping that our prospects not only adequately replace them but also improve on them. That's a tall order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Adding Brière might seem illogical, but if we follow Mb's train of thought, his logic of building through the draft, well then you at least want to create an environment where they can showcase their talent, whether a young player or veteran, and adding depth, no matter if 5'10, will only help maintain this, helping to get good value on his own players. In the end, this depth will help sell some of our talent to fill the true needs of the team.

Not many players in such an open market would accept a short term contract, this too fits the logic as you don't want to shackle yourself with lenghty contracts to overpaid role players.
Adding a small scorer to an already small forward group doesn't exactly create an environment where they can showcase their talent. Wouldn't it make much more sense to get a Jagr. He's someone the young guys would look up to much more than Briere, has a crazy intense workout regimen, has already established chemistry, and doesn't worsen our size problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Now, is it the only route to take? Sure as hell no. But none of us are there to hear what is actually proposed from one GM to another, or to a player.

Funny how, if Lecavalier would've signed, the whole narrative would change and Bergevin would be seen as a hero and blah blah blah. All hinging on the player's decision, in a market with few commodities and a lot of suitors.

Let's be realistic here. It has nothing to do with being 'content'.
I agree it's tough to argue that we missed out on guys like Ryan because we have no idea what we offered if anything. But it's funny that you bring up Lecavalier because in his case we DO know what was offered 9m over 3 years. Compare this to what we offered Briere 8m over 2 years and it's clear that Bergevin valued Briere more than he valued Lecavalier. That's a red flag to me because it's either bad evaluation of the two players, bad evaluation of the teams needs, or a panic move after losing out on Lecavalier.

Sorinth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:17 PM
  #205
danisonfire
2313 Saint Catherine
 
danisonfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,125
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driven View Post
With this way of thinking, anybody with a little common sense and average intellectual capacities could be GM of the Montreal Canadiens. Just count on Timmins to draft you a team and sign average/washed up UFA in the hope they become bargain.

It might sounds rude, but I'd like Molson to hire a GM who got a Degree and a high level of education and not a ex-NHL player/french/buddies of his
. A guy with some guts like Chiarelli ( who got a degree in Rights and Economy), somebody who is actually pro-active.

Yes, building through the draft is a valide option, but 29 others team are doing it to. We aren't the only one with a bright futur, each team have solid prospect coming up. ALL succefull teams use the UFA/trade market to go after quality peaces. It's all good to have a plan but sometimes, you gotta thinks outside the box, get out of you're way to improve your team. Success ain't gonna fall onto your laps. That's the difference between succeful GM and average ones. They CREATE opportunity. They don't watch the parade from 100 feet away, sitting on their deck chair.
It is rude. Marc Bergevin:

- Has 1191 NHL games played
- Was pro scout with the Blackhawks' organization
- Served as an Assistant Coach for the Blackhawks
- Was appointed the team's Director of Player Personnel (While in this position, he won the Stanley Cup in 2010 after five years working to build this team)
- Was promoted to the position of Assistant General Manager of the Chicago Blackhawks
- Was named General Manager and Executive Vice President of the Montreal Canadiens

Do you honestly think someone fresh out of university with a degree would be better? How does this prepare him for an NHL GM position? How is a Doctor's or Master's degree going to help them perform better?

He was promoted right through the blackhawks organization all the way up the ladder. With a university degree you can hope to do the same in your field of study after years of hard work and dedication.

danisonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:19 PM
  #206
sandysan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walksss View Post
The guy hasn't even had a single off ice meeting with the team and you speak as though he's already disappointed as badly as Gomez did. There is reason to be optimistic about what he could potentially bring to the team but most of the posters around here already think he's good for nothing.

Maybe he does under perform, but maybe he is motivated and come to Montreal with the right mindset and really sets a great example for the young core. Maybe he represents a model player/person, puts up the production you should be hoping for, and manages some key playoff moments. The point is, the potential for those things is there and it's the old glass half empty/full cliche. Most of the Habs "fans" around here are hardly "fans" at all and I use those quotation marks liberally.

The facts are this team barely gets any support at all from a large percentage of the fan base unless we're dominating/about to win a cup. That is nothing but a fair weather fan. Period.

And if half you guys think this debate is childish then don't click the thread. Personally I think it should be mandated reading for most of this pathetic excuse for a fan base.
So when the gm decides to do precisely what he said he would not and the fan base feels confused, deceived and betrayed, the fault clearly lies with the fan base and not the gm who did precisely the opposite of what he promised he would do ?

If you want a fan base that praises their gm irrespective of what they do there are plenty of choices. I didn't know fan and sheep were synonymous. Live and learn

sandysan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:19 PM
  #207
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walksss View Post
The guy hasn't even had a single off ice meeting with the team and you speak as though he's already disappointed as badly as Gomez did. There is reason to be optimistic about what he could potentially bring to the team but most of the posters around here already think he's good for nothing.

Maybe he does under perform, but maybe he is motivated and come to Montreal with the right mindset and really sets a great example for the young core. Maybe he represents a model player/person, puts up the production you should be hoping for, and manages some key playoff moments. The point is, the potential for those things is there and it's the old glass half empty/full cliche. Most of the Habs "fans" around here are hardly "fans" at all and I use those quotation marks liberally.

The facts are this team barely gets any support at all from a large percentage of the fan base unless we're dominating/about to win a cup. That is nothing but a fair weather fan. Period.

And if half you guys think this debate is childish then don't click the thread. Personally I think it should be mandated reading for most of this pathetic excuse for a fan base.
And Conner Crisp might make the team out of camp and score 50 goals. The potential is there, it's just not very likely. The odds are Briere doesn't come in and make the team better than we were last year.

Sorinth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:22 PM
  #208
Erik Estrada
One Country United!
 
Erik Estrada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Land of the Habs
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,709
vCash: 500
What I saw last season, it was glaring in the playoffs, was that there was a threshold where our speed could keep us competitive against bigger teams until DD, Gallagher and Gionta were all healthy at the same time. Then we became dangerously vulnerable... We aren't even a big club without those guys... See Plekanec, Gorges, Bouillon, etc... Now we've added another small player in Brière.

Now I don't have a problem with Brière in a vacuum. But, for various reasons, I believe MB could keep both Brière and DD. Right now I think he'd rather trade Plekanec and Eller than DD. I think he has a serious problem with size going forward.

Erik Estrada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:23 PM
  #209
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
This thread is so childish.

It's not being negative, it's being critical of the situation presented before us. The idiot GMs we've had over the years all claimed the same thing: build through the draft, it's not worth taking risks or risking the future, patience, stand pat, the price was too high, yada, yada, yada.

It's been 10 years and nothing's been different. It's been 20 years since we last won anything. We have good pieces in place but what's the point of signing Briere if you won't trust them to step up to the next level instead of just get 3rd line minutes? And if not, if they're absolutely not ready, why the hell do you sign a broken down Briere and not a better FA?

It's always the middle-ground, unambitious, complacent option and it always results in failure. Kinda like Gretzky's thing there about missing shots, the Habs' braintrust gets their rocks off by never taking a shot at anything. We end up with Robert Lang as a big-time centre in our centennial year, and after that? Scott Gomez.

Are Bouillon and DD parts of a Stanley Cup winning team? Is Gionta the #1 RW of a Stanley Cup winning team?

Why aren't we directing the team toward THAT goal and not toward making the playoffs? ffs you have to be merely MEDIOCRE to make the playoffs, it's really not that hard. I'm tired of that being the ultimate goal.

For the record I'm not saying that we sign Clarkson or trade first rounders, I'm just saying this organization's mandate has been mediocrity - systematic mediocrity. From the choices of coach, to the size we present, to the friggin extensions they hand out. Mediocrity turns Molson & Co on.
Those who say they are critical are often extremists instead. Being a critic is not to be mistaken with critical thinking. To actually be critical in the same vein as 'critical thinking', you need to look at all the possibilities, all the variants and all the components and being able to grasp all the subtleties of their mix, and foremost, being able to put everything outside the context of your own wants and needs as they tend to create a bias that constrains the field of perception. Being overly negative without even seeing results is not -critical thinking-, that much can be said.

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:24 PM
  #210
ChemiseBleuHonnete
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 9,401
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by danisonfire View Post
It is rude. Marc Bergevin:

- Has 1191 NHL games played
- Was pro scout with the Blackhawks' organization
- Served as an Assistant Coach for the Blackhawks
- Was appointed the team's Director of Player Personnel (While in this position, he won the Stanley Cup in 2010 after five years working to build this team)
- Was promoted to the position of Assistant General Manager of the Chicago Blackhawks
- Was named General Manager and Executive Vice President of the Montreal Canadiens

Do you honestly think someone fresh out of university with a degree would be better? How does this prepare him for an NHL GM position? How is a Doctor's or Master's degree going to help them perform better?

He was promoted right through the blackhawks organization all the way up the ladder. With a university degree you can hope to do the same in your field of study after years of hard work and dedication.
Driven talked about a guy like Chiarelli who had both education and NHL experience before joining the Bruins in 2006. To put it simply, Chiarelli built a team that has been a perennial contender since he joined them and we nothing in that span. And it's not like there was that many pieces of their team that was really there before he joined.

ChemiseBleuHonnete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:28 PM
  #211
sandysan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Watch Brière score 35 goals and make all you complainers look like total fools.
And David deharnais wins the Richard.........
Wait this isn't the most outlandish or idiotic prediction competition ????? My bad.

sandysan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:34 PM
  #212
Walksss
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 59
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
So when the gm decides to do precisely what he said he would not and the fan base feels confused, deceived and betrayed, the fault clearly lies with the fan base and not the gm who did precisely the opposite of what he promised he would do ?

If you want a fan base that praises their gm irrespective of what they do there are plenty of choices. I didn't know fan and sheep were synonymous. Live and learn
Th fan base was like this long before MB and you know it, or should. Strawman argument. And also don't think I don't question the guy, I do, he's not perfect. I just don't see it as he was handed keys to a ferrari and he's turned it into a fiat, quite the opposite.

The point I'm trying to make is that this board complains about EVERYTHING. That's all. I'm just saying it's exhausting and now I have to go to sleep.

Walksss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:34 PM
  #213
Maelpj*
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemiseBleuHonnete View Post
Driven talked about a guy like Chiarelli who had both education and NHL experience before joining the Bruins in 2006. To put it simply, Chiarelli built a team that has been a perennial contender since he joined them and we nothing in that span. And it's not like there was that many pieces of their team that was really there before he joined.
Thanks for adding. Didn't bothered replying, I tought my point was pretty easy to understand, I wasn't obviously suggesting to hire a dentist fresh out of school to be the Habs GM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemiseBleuHonnete View Post
And it's not like there was that many pieces of their team that was really there before he joined.
This. Chiarelli basically turned a soft, irrevelant group of hasbeen into a constant contender. He cleary is one of the best in the buisness. Dean Lombardi , GM of the Kings, had a similar journey than him (attended law school, became player agent.

The NEED to hire a french GM just confirm that the priority of this team are wrong.

Maelpj* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:38 PM
  #214
sandysan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Those who say they are critical are often extremists instead. Being a critic is not to be mistaken with critical thinking. To actually be critical in the same vein as 'critical thinking', you need to look at all the possibilities, all the variants and all the components and being able to grasp all the subtleties of their mix, and foremost, being able to put everything outside the context of your own wants and needs as they tend to create a bias that constrains the field of perception. Being overly negative without even seeing results is not -critical thinking-, that much can be said.
So Mr critical thinker, what does an ageing, past his prime one dimensional defensive abomination bring to a team that finished 4th in scoring last year and got manhandled by the gd senators?

My disdain for this deal has nothing to do with the fact he spurned us before, and I think that shrimpy could still be an asset to a team under the right circumstances. Danny briere does not have a lot left and what he does have is not what we need.

And I think it is far more intellectually lazy to simply discount criticism of the team as a bunch of malcontents of questionable loyalty to this team. If you are fine with being ragdolled by the gd senators, come out and say it. If you are content to bend over and take whatever the team decides to give you, you must be pleased as punch with our recent success.

The next time someone tells me how shrimpy addresses a need for this team will be the first.

sandysan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:40 PM
  #215
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driven View Post
Thanks for adding. Didn't bothered replying, I tought my point was pretty easy to understand, I wasn't obviously suggesting to hire a dentist fresh out of school to be the Habs GM.



This. Chiarelli basically turned a soft, irrevelant group of hasbeen into a constant contender. He cleary is one of the best in the buisness. Dean Lombardi , GM of the Kings, had a similar journey than him (attended law school, became player agent.
To be fair Mike Gillis and Brian Burke have degrees and aren't/weren't exactly stellar GMs. You'd have to go through the list of all recent GMs and see if there's actually a correlation. Personally I don't think it comes down to education.

Sorinth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:41 PM
  #216
SouthernHab
Registered User
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,996
vCash: 500
For the love of hockey..................this place is a frickken hockey message board.

People have opinions and when people whine about whining, well it steps up the whining to a new level.

Everyone has an opinion and depending on what YOU expect, you will either agree or disagree or simply follow the crowd regarding this team.

Put on the big boy pants and realize that there are people who disagree with you. No big deal. The sun will still rise tomorrow.
The Habs wont make a change based on this board, the game will be played and the Habs will forever be TWO years away from winning the Cup.

Go Habs Go.

SouthernHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:47 PM
  #217
danisonfire
2313 Saint Catherine
 
danisonfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,125
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemiseBleuHonnete View Post
Driven talked about a guy like Chiarelli who had both education and NHL experience before joining the Bruins in 2006. To put it simply, Chiarelli built a team that has been a perennial contender since he joined them and we nothing in that span. And it's not like there was that many pieces of their team that was really there before he joined.
Education is applicable only to your area of study. Chiarelli played hockey his whole life including for Harvard University as a captain of the team. He was also a successful player agent and knew a lot of things related to hockey such as contracts that have helped as GM. Many people with Chiarelli's background will never achieve this, he had to work very hard for this after being given a degree. I agree you do not have to play in the NHL to be a successful GM, but you need to know a large number of things hockey related. Bergevin has a great resume in relation to the game of hockey. He was promoted continuously higher up the ladder in the NHL and helped with Chicago’s cup roster. It is very hard to win a cup in the modern NHL. Both Chiarelli and Bergevin know a great number of things that help them. A degree will only take you so far in life, you have to continue learning every day. I applaud a person like Chiarelli who took his various backgrounds and built upon them. As for needing to know french, it should be of little importance. Bonus maybe, but not the main thing ever.

Also: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1464319

VOTE FOR ROY MUNSON


Last edited by danisonfire: 07-06-2013 at 09:52 PM.
danisonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:47 PM
  #218
Erik Estrada
One Country United!
 
Erik Estrada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Land of the Habs
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,709
vCash: 500
Great and simple PR would have been for MB to clearly say at the PC, that he'll take care of size in the Top-9 for October. Just say you'll address the question. Very simple. Why was that not said?

Erik Estrada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:50 PM
  #219
Maelpj*
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
To be fair Mike Gillis and Brian Burke have degrees and aren't/weren't exactly stellar GMs. You'd have to go through the list of all recent GMs and see if there's actually a correlation. Personally I don't think it comes down to education.
Honestly, Burke did more good than harm. He built a really interesting team in Toronto and we start to see the "success" of his complete rebuild. He leaved the Leafs in a better situation than they were in 2008 when he was hired. He is the reason Canucks drafted both Sedins. Obviously not the best in the buisness, but it doesn't discredit my point.

Wasn't implying that education=sucess, simply that the criteria of hiring of Molson seems to be ex nhl player who can speak french.. Which hasn't been succeful for a while now. I would of liked Pat Brisson.

Maelpj* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:54 PM
  #220
sandysan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Great and simple PR would have been for MB to clearly say at the PC, that he'll take care of size in the Top-9 for October. Just say you'll address the question. Very simple. Why was that not said?
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me ?

I hope that I am wrong, I really do but I think we ice a team that looks a lot like the one we have now.

sandysan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:55 PM
  #221
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driven View Post
Honestly, Burke did more good than harm. He built a really interesting team in Toronto and we start to see the "success" of his complete rebuild. He leaved the Leafs in a better situation than they were in 2008 when he was hired. He is the reason Canucks drafted both Sedins. Obviously not the best in the buisness, but it doesn't discredit my point.

Wasn't implying that education=sucess, simply that the criteria of hiring of Molson seems to be ex nhl player who can speak french.. Which hasn't been succeful for a while now. I would of liked Pat Brisson.
Well McGuire was a candidate right to the end and he never played in the NHL.

We can agree to disagree about the leafs.

Sorinth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 10:01 PM
  #222
Maelpj*
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by danisonfire View Post
Education is applicable only to your area of study. Chiarelli played hockey his whole life including for Harvard University as a captain of the team. He was also a successful player agent and knew a lot of things related to hockey such as contracts that have helped as GM. Many people with Chiarelli's background will never achieve this, he had to work very hard for this after being given a degree. I agree you do not have to play in the NHL to be a successful GM, but you need to know a large number of things hockey related. Bergevin has a great resume in relation to the game of hockey. He was promoted continuously higher up the ladder in the NHL and helped with Chicago’s cup roster. It is very hard to win a cup in the modern NHL. Both Chiarelli and Bergevin know a great number of things that help them. A degree will only take you so far in life, you have to continue learning every day. I applaud a person like Chiarelli who took his various backgrounds and built upon them. As for needing to know french, it should be of little importance. Bonus maybe, but not the main thing ever.

Also: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1464319

VOTE FOR ROY MUNSON
Didn't want to tell it straight but you dont seems to get the point. Having a degree is only a proof of possible higher logical thinking and-or mental capacities. It's the same train of thought than an entreprise who will hire a guy with a degree , even if that said degree isn't pertinent to the job, and pay him more, before an other one who doesn't have a degree but might have a little more experience. I see it often in a domaine like programming.

Of course, knowing hockey is important. But it's not the only criteria to be a succeful manager, as we saw with Gainey.

Maelpj* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 10:09 PM
  #223
groovejuice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,074
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
So when the gm decides to do precisely what he said he would not and the fan base feels confused, deceived and betrayed, the fault clearly lies with the fan base and not the gm who did precisely the opposite of what he promised he would do ?

If you want a fan base that praises their gm irrespective of what they do there are plenty of choices. I didn't know fan and sheep were synonymous. Live and learn
You are completely twisting the reality to support your emotional response. MB said he would improve the team through the draft and trades, that the team needed to be skilled but also bigger and tougher and that free agency is a reckless way to build a team. Do we agree so far?

Over the last 2 drafts MB has certainly acquired skill, size and toughness. CHECK

He has been careful not to blow the wad on FA; being in on deals until the term or money was unmanageable. CHECK

He is signing quality undrafted or otherwise available young players, improving the coaching, and he has made trades for skill, depth and toughness that cost virtually nothing. CHECK

Getting bigger does not mean never acquiring a shorter player. It means by the time you're ready to truly compete you have more than adequately met your goals.

A little emotional control and common sense work wonders to keep the blood pressure in check.

groovejuice is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 10:19 PM
  #224
danisonfire
2313 Saint Catherine
 
danisonfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,125
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driven View Post
Didn't want to tell it straight but you dont seems to get the point. Having a degree is only a proof of possible higher logical thinking and-or mental capacities. It's the same train of thought than an entreprise who will hire a guy with a degree , even if that said degree isn't pertinent to the job, and pay him more, before an other one who doesn't have a degree but might have a little more experience. I see it often in a domaine like programming.

Of course, knowing hockey is important. But it's not the only criteria to be a succeful manager, as we saw with Gainey.
I understand what you are trying to say, don't worry about telling it straight.

A degree, if anything is proof of hard work and dedication at that stage of your life. You also need the means to afford the degree. It took hard work to achieve my degree and many hours of studying in the latter years. This is only the start of a journey. Many people with a degree amount to nothing. They do not possess the required skills needed for advancement. You can posses a high level of critical thinking, without a degree to back it up. Many of these types work their way up as they grow older into very successful positions. On the other front, I have seen many people with a piece of paper who assume they now know everything. These types fail to continue learning and fail to progress. My father has a higher paper degree than my mother (both in the programming field). While both are successful, my mother has achieved higher levels of success for this very reason. She is the type who spends each and every day learning something new and uses her critical thinking to apply it in her everyday life.

I do agree with you on critical thinking being a very important trait.

danisonfire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 10:20 PM
  #225
sandysan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
You are completely twisting the reality to support your emotional response. MB said he would improve the team through the draft and trades, that the team needed to be skilled but also bigger and tougher and that free agency is a reckless way to build a team. Do we agree so far?

Over the last 2 drafts MB has certainly acquired skill, size and toughness. CHECK

He has been careful not to blow the wad on FA; being in on deals until the term or money was unmanageable. CHECK

He is signing quality undrafted or otherwise available young players, improving the coaching, and he has made trades for skill, depth and toughness that cost virtually nothing. CHECK

Getting bigger does not mean never acquiring a shorter player. It means by the time you're ready to truly compete you have more than adequately met your goals.

A little emotional control and common sense work wonders to keep the blood pressure in check.
so how does this FA signing help? And if getting bigger is accomplished by getting smaller, older and softer I completely admit I don't understand the logic.

Both signings reek of desperation. Shrimpy because we didn't get VL who COULD bring something to the table, and stashy because shrimpy did nothing to address a persistent and obvious deficiency.

We don't need to go crazy and sign bad contracts, but we don't also need to take on short contracts for players who have limited assets that are largely redundant on this team.

sandysan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:08 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.