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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) XLI

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Old
07-09-2013, 01:45 PM
  #251
InjuredChoker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
Just playing a more puck possession style will help the defense more than Sacco's dump and chase crap.

Detroit had a sub-par defense on paper this last year and got by alright because of a puck possession sustem. Roy probably has that in mind.
Detroit really didn't play that much puck possession game. Babcock had to change that as D wasn't as skilled. D got away with because Wings played great as a unit, and Zetterberg and Datsyuk are great two-way centers.

But yes, good coach and thus good system will definitely help. Thus, I expect improvement. Another example was what Paul MacLean managed to do in Ottawa with all those injuries, Karlsson, Spezza, Cowen out most of the season.

Anyway, I'd still like to see some upgrade there. Or maybe management wants to roll out with what we have and evaluate after the season; or trade deadline.

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07-09-2013, 01:45 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
We'll see.

I think you are way too down on Avs after a shortened season. With a significantly worse team the year before they were right in the playoff hunt with a handful of games to go.
Perhaps. But then again, the results are what they are.

I don't really have too much concern about the forwards, and I'm not on the goaltending very much either. But that defense - that's going to be tough to overcome, unless EJ/Barrie massively improve and Wilson stays healthy.

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07-09-2013, 01:49 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by hockeyfish View Post
Well, you can't really give a pass to players like Stastny for playing like crap for Sacco but write off the group of defenders. If your really believe Stastny was screwed up by Sacco, then you also need to believe that is the same with Johnson and Wilson.
I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I'm not going to defend Sacco, as I felt he was a crappy coach. That said, I won't sit back and put all of the bad play by a bunch of Avs players 100% at Sacco's feet. At some point, the player has to be accountable to some extent.

I'm happy about this coaching change, and really hope that it helps a few of the Avs top players - namely EJ and Varlamov.

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Old
07-09-2013, 01:50 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Detroit really didn't play that much puck possession game. Babcock had to change that as D wasn't as skilled. D got away with because Wings played great as a unit, and Zetterberg and Datsyuk are great two-way centers.

But yes, good coach and thus good system will definitely help. Thus, I expect improvement. Another example was what Paul MacLean managed to do in Ottawa with all those injuries, Karlsson, Spezza, Cowen out most of the season.

Anyway, I'd still like to see some upgrade there. Or maybe management wants to roll out with what we have and evaluate after the season; or trade deadline.
I still feel a trade will happen at some point. Coburn is still out there. Jake Muzzin out of LA would be an interesting target. He is a kid who could be cheap and ready for top 4 duty. Alzner still doesn't have a contract. I'm sure other guys could also be available.

We have the advantage of being one of the few teams with any cap space for this year. I have a feeling they may take advantage of it.

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07-09-2013, 01:53 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I'm not going to defend Sacco, as I felt he was a crappy coach. That said, I won't sit back and put all of the bad play by a bunch of Avs players 100% at Sacco's feet. At some point, the player has to be accountable to some extent.

I'm happy about this coaching change, and really hope that it helps a few of the Avs top players - namely EJ and Varlamov.
My point is, a lot of us didn't want to dump Stastny for his bad play because we wanted to see what he could do under Roy rather than Sacco. Why not give that same thought to the D. See what they can do under Roy rather than Sacco.

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07-09-2013, 02:03 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by hockeyfish View Post
My point is, a lot of us didn't want to dump Stastny for his bad play because we wanted to see what he could do under Roy rather than Sacco. Why not give that same thought to the D. See what they can do under Roy rather than Sacco.
Honestly, for me it has nothing to do with who is coaching them. Do I think our defense will be better just because of Roy? Absolutely...

However,

Wilson - EJ

Hejda - Barrie

That is the problem right there... Hejda and Barrie are a pretty god 2nd pairing as they proved last year when together. It's Wilson being up there that is the problem. Sure if he somehow stays healthy, those four might work fine in getting us into the playoffs. The problem is that hes never played a full season.

It's the lack of quality depth behind that to be honest. There isn't anyone else on our defense that 'should be' anywhere near a top 4 role.

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07-09-2013, 02:06 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Honestly, for me it has nothing to do with who is coaching them. Do I think our defense will be better just because of Roy? Absolutely...

However,

Wilson - EJ

Hejda - Barrie

That is the problem right there... Hejda and Barrie are a pretty god 2nd pairing as they proved last year when together. It's Wilson being up there that is the problem. Sure if he somehow stays healthy, those four might work fine in getting us into the playoffs. The problem is that hes never played a full season.

It's the lack of quality depth behind that to be honest. There isn't anyone else on our defense that 'should be' anywhere near a top 4 role.
And honestly, Wilson is much better on a 3rd pairing where he won't be as exposed physically. I do agree that the team needs depth. And I'm not necessarily advocating that we take "see what Roy can change" approach. I'm just pointing out the double standard here between Stastny and the D.

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07-09-2013, 02:13 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by hockeyfish View Post
And honestly, Wilson is much better on a 3rd pairing where he won't be as exposed physically. I do agree that the team needs depth. And I'm not necessarily advocating that we take "see what Roy can change" approach. I'm just pointing out the double standard here between Stastny and the D.
The only thing I'll say is, be careful when saying 'we need depth'. We need quality depth, someone a little better than Wilson and more consistent.

Who knows maybe this Benoit dude will be a diamond in the rough late bloomer like Parenteau was. He did have good numbers last year, and it sounds like he didn't hurt the team while he was on the ice unlike Hunwick.

The guy did have more than twice the points Hunwick did getting far less ice time. Can't believe Hunwick only put up 6 points with the ice time that ****er got. There is something seriously wrong with Hunwick when you can skate as good as he can and can't put up points.

So that's what I'm talking myself into hoping for, Benoit the saviour, because we'll need him to be after about 10 games into the season when Wilson goes down.

Edit: I should add to this... I'm actually hoping Siemens proves quite a bit more ready than most people think. Of anyone in our system, he has the best hope of being a top 4 defender quickly. In terms of being able to provide a good skating shutdown presence. The point in the end is really that all our other top 4 options are long shots, and most likely not ready for it yet.

Siemens ability to shutdown the top forwards in the memorial cup where not many if at all could, makes me think hes more ready than hes been given credit for. Hell not even Seth Jones was able play to the level Siemens did defensively.

This is what I'm relegated too... Hoping for things I probably shouldn't have to.


Last edited by CobraAcesS: 07-09-2013 at 02:25 PM.
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Old
07-09-2013, 02:35 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
The only thing I'll say is, be careful when saying 'we need depth'. We need quality depth, someone a little better than Wilson and more consistent.

Who knows maybe this Benoit dude will be a diamond in the rough late bloomer like Parenteau was. He did have good numbers last year, and it sounds like he didn't hurt the team while he was on the ice unlike Hunwick.

The guy did have more than twice the points Hunwick did getting far less ice time. Can't believe Hunwick only put up 6 points with the ice time that ****er got. There is something seriously wrong with Hunwick when you can skate as good as he can and can't put up points.

So that's what I'm talking myself into hoping for, Benoit the saviour, because we'll need him to be after about 10 games into the season when Wilson goes down.

Edit: I should add to this... I'm actually hoping Siemens proves quite a bit more ready than most people think. Of anyone in our system, he has the best hope of being a top 4 defender quickly. In terms of being able to provide a good skating shutdown presence. The point in the end is really that all our other top 4 options are long shots, and most likely not ready for it yet.

Siemens ability to shutdown the top forwards in the memorial cup where not many if at all could, makes me think hes more ready than hes been given credit for. Hell not even Seth Jones was able play to the level Siemens did defensively.

This is what I'm relegated too... Hoping for things I probably shouldn't have to.
I personally don't have too many doubts he could play in the NHL right now. He possesses three NHL quality traits as is, size and strength, Defensive IQ, and skating. That alone would make him not look out of place. But, he doesn't turn 20 for a few more months, so it's probably in our best interest not to push the issue and let him play some at LEM. Maybe he can work more on his offensive game there.

As for Benoit, I think just about anyone is better than Hunwick at this point. There is almost zero offensive IQ with the guy. He simply has no clue what to do after he rushes into the zone. More often then not, his offensive rushes immediately result in an odd man run the other way.

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Old
07-09-2013, 02:42 PM
  #260
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Flyers just re-signed Erik Gustafsson and recentely said that Mezsaros will be declared healthy soon. Probably dumped soon. Hope we are there.

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07-09-2013, 02:43 PM
  #261
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That is something I do not understand anyways.
Why are so few here willing to give siemens a chance on a 2nd pairing.

EJ - Hejda
Siemens - Barrie
Wilson - Sarich

looks like a solid lineup to me
Swap 3rd and 2nd pairing during the game if needbe or the youngsters have a bad night but man I'd love to give them some experience playing in the NHL at an appropriate level.

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Old
07-09-2013, 02:49 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by hockeyfish View Post
I personally don't have too many doubts he could play in the NHL right now. He possesses three NHL quality traits as is, size and strength, Defensive IQ, and skating. That alone would make him not look out of place. But, he doesn't turn 20 for a few more months, so it's probably in our best interest not to push the issue and let him play some at LEM. Maybe he can work more on his offensive game there.

As for Benoit, I think just about anyone is better than Hunwick at this point. There is almost zero offensive IQ with the guy. He simply has no clue what to do after he rushes into the zone. More often then not, his offensive rushes immediately result in an odd man run the other way.
What's funny about Hunwick, is he can handle the puck fairly well. You see it when it gets the odd break and usually goes for a deak. However his shot is weak, and you're right. He has next to zero play-making ability.

When it comes to Duncan, I'd give him a legit shot at least. That's all I'm saying. I didn't like Roy all but ruling him out, and talking like Bigras has a better chance of making the team than him.

I just can't see it personally.

Mackinnon and Drouin are already most likely better than 60-70% of NHL forwards, I can tell you that based on history. Siemens shutting not one, but both of them down is pretty amazing. Especially considering the fact that Mackinnon's speed didn't seem to effect Siemens as much as Jones, and Siemens was far better at anticipating Drouin and frustrating the hell out of him, than any other defender in the memorial cup.

I just think Roy undersold Duncan, in preemptively saying he most likely won't make it over a 2013 draftee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by c0rn1 View Post
That is something I do not understand anyways.
Why are so few here willing to give siemens a chance on a 2nd pairing.

EJ - Hejda
Siemens - Barrie
Wilson - Sarich

looks like a solid lineup to me
Swap 3rd and 2nd pairing during the game if needbe or the youngsters have a bad night but man I'd love to give them some experience playing in the NHL at an appropriate level.
I'd at least give Siemens the first shot after Wilson goes down, unless he bullied his way into that slot to be honest.

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Old
07-09-2013, 02:55 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
The guy did have more than twice the points Hunwick did getting far less ice time. Can't believe Hunwick only put up 6 points with the ice time that ****er got. There is something seriously wrong with Hunwick when you can skate as good as he can and can't put up points.
The sad part is that he still managed to outscore freaking EJ.

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07-09-2013, 02:58 PM
  #264
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The sad part is that he still managed to outscore freaking EJ.
It's hard not to blame Succo on that one.

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07-09-2013, 03:07 PM
  #265
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About Bigras. It was Roys first draft and I'm sure he was happy getting a player with the qualities Bigras has. I can't see him making NHL. He needs to add a lot of bulk.

I generally don't like when GMs talk too much about players they just drafted. Burke saying Rielly was the best player in the draft. Feaster saying that Jankowski will be viewed as the best player in the 2012 draft. Roy didn't go that far with Bigras, but it still adds unnecessary expectations.

If Bigras through some miracle is NHL ready, let us know after training camp.

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07-09-2013, 03:09 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by hockeyfish View Post
It's hard not to blame Succo on that one.
It's very popular to blame Sacco for everything, but i just can't.

I saw every game last season and i can't blame Sacco for EJ's poor play on the offensive zone. It was pathetic at times.

And please, don't come with the "he was cleaning up after Hunwick" excuse, because it's weak. He should have better numbers even if we played the entire season shorthanded.

If there is a guy on this team that needs to get his head out of his ass, that guy is EJ.

BTW, i have faith that he will.

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07-09-2013, 03:13 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
About Bigras. It was Roys first draft and I'm sure he was happy getting a player with the qualities Bigras has. I can't see him making NHL. He needs to add a lot of bulk.

I generally don't like when GMs talk too much about players they just drafted. Burke saying Rielly was the best player in the draft. Feaster saying that Jankowski will be viewed as the best player in the 2012 draft. Roy didn't go that far with Bigras, but it still adds unnecessary expectations.

If Bigras through some miracle is NHL ready, let us know after training camp.
Maybe Chris Pronger told him Bigras is NHL ready.

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07-09-2013, 03:23 PM
  #268
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I think Roy and Sakic both know that next years free agency is one of the best in last 5-8 years or so. I think they will put up with the core this season, get a general idea of what they need, and process to that need accordingly. That is why Roy publicaly announced that Stastny won't be traded until he knows what he's going to get.

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07-09-2013, 03:24 PM
  #269
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Maybe Chris Pronger told him Bigras is NHL ready.
You know the funny part is that very well may be true, Pronger has been scouting lately. We do know he spoke very highly of the kid.

I have high hopes for Bigras, but this season's rookie defense phenom? Nah...

Usually the guys who step in and surprise on defense are at least a couple years removed from their draft class. Which is why I have higher hopes for Duncan.

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07-09-2013, 03:26 PM
  #270
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He is certainly much more NHL ready than Bigras at this point. Don't fall into the shiny new toy syndrome.
not so much shiny new toy as skating and scoring ability.
a lot is assuming that Roy will prefer really good skaters who also play good D and move the puck.
due to his style of play i assume that's what he'll like in D men.
not that he won't have Siemens playing in the top 4 soon because you need a steady shut down guy to pair with puck movers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by c0rn1 View Post
That is something I do not understand anyways.
Why are so few here willing to give siemens a chance on a 2nd pairing.

EJ - Hejda
Siemens - Barrie
Wilson - Sarich

looks like a solid lineup to me
Swap 3rd and 2nd pairing during the game if needbe or the youngsters have a bad night but man I'd love to give them some experience playing in the NHL at an appropriate level.
i think a lot of it has to do with Siemens issue with the Blades a little bit back. that rubbed some fans the wrong way and they still didn't get over it. plus he's not a scorer per se so most want someone who can put the puck in the net with a great shot on the top 2 pairings.

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07-09-2013, 03:28 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
I think Roy and Sakic both know that next years free agency is one of the best in last 5-8 years or so. I think they will put up with the core this season, get a general idea of what they need, and process to that need accordingly. That is why Roy publicaly announced that Stastny won't be traded until he knows what he's going to get.
Well it's looking good now.

But I think most will be re-signed. And/or traded at deadline and then possibly/likely re-signed.

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07-09-2013, 03:55 PM
  #272
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I think Roy and Sakic both know that next years free agency is one of the best in last 5-8 years or so.
It always looks so very promising 12 months in advance, then not nearly so good one month in advance.

I think it's more that they need to really see what the hell they have with a number of these players.

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07-09-2013, 04:00 PM
  #273
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not so much shiny new toy as skating and scoring ability.
a lot is assuming that Roy will prefer really good skaters who also play good D and move the puck.
due to his style of play i assume that's what he'll like in D men.
not that he won't have Siemens playing in the top 4 soon because you need a steady shut down guy to pair with puck movers.



i think a lot of it has to do with Siemens issue with the Blades a little bit back. that rubbed some fans the wrong way and they still didn't get over it. plus he's not a scorer per se so most want someone who can put the puck in the net with a great shot on the top 2 pairings.
Bigras simply doesn't have the NHL size or strength at this point. Rather than send him out with the Avs and have him pushed around, send him back to the minors and let him add 20 pounds over the course of the season.

As for Siemens, people make way way too much over losing the captaincy. It's really nothing.

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07-09-2013, 06:07 PM
  #274
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Give me Mez for a conditional pick.

Hopefully between the 2 of Wilson and Mez, we'll always have a healthy player who can play next to EJ.

Mez-EJ
Hejda-Barrie
Wilson-Benoit
Sarich/Hunwick fight it out for #7.

Siemens-Elliott in LE as injury call ups would be fine for me unless either guy makes it impossible to send them back down after camp

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07-09-2013, 06:30 PM
  #275
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Here is a list of free agent dmen next year that I wouldn't mind on the team if they're not re-signed by their team:

Bouwmeester
Phaneuf
Pitkanen
Markov(kinda old)
Orpik
Hjalmarsson
Seidenberg
Phillips(kinda old)
Klesla
Green

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