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Old
07-12-2013, 11:10 AM
  #551
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Kulikov is growing defensively? He looks worse in his own zone with each passing year and this past season he looked like a train wreck both in the KHL and in the NHL. I'm amazed every time when I see someone holding Kulikov in high regard when a guy like MDZ who's by the way better in every aspect of the game and is more proven to boot gets hated (btw some of that "hate" is justified).
I'm willing to concede I watched no more than 10 florida games last year, but Kuli was the one man on that defense who looked really capable in his own zone. Actually reminded me a lot of EJ the year before for us, trying to do too much because everyone else around him was a disaster defensively.

That's a big part of why I think they'd pair up so well, both can really skate and defend, would free their forwards up to just run wild cause that backend has the mobility and skill to cover for them. Plus for once both would have a partner they could trust to take care of business defensively and so I think you'd see both really grow a lot.

But it doesn't have to be Kuli, my point was just that if we're gunna go after Vanek as a rental to convince him to stay, we should keep staz to feed him goal after goal, and use factor to fix up the D and get EJ a partner that's not Ryan Wilson.

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07-12-2013, 11:39 AM
  #552
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I think we'd make better trade partners with the Caps. They could use one of Stastny or O'Reilly and have a few options on defense they could offer us.

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07-12-2013, 11:41 AM
  #553
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
When Kulikov plays poorly on a last place team it's on Kulikov, but when EJ does it, it's the coach's fault?

The Avs need to do something on that blueline. Kulikov isn't a perfect player, but he would be a clear upgrade, and would at least fill a 2nd pairing slot for years to come.

Some in here have said unflattering things about Del Zotto, but I'd take him on the Avs in a second. Again, not a perfect player, but most certainly an immediate and obvious upgrade.
I was never one of the people here who put all the blame on Sacco, sure he made a number of dumb decisions, but EJ needs to play better, this last season was just a prime example of talent gone to waste.

As for Kulikov, I wouldn't put him anywhere near our 1st pairing and since his role is that of a PMD with some serious holes in his D zone play he's not even well suited for the 2nd pairing role to play alongside Barrie, who already has a perfect partner for himself in Hejda. It all comes down to if trading for a guy like Kulikov would be worth it, IMHO it wouldn't be, because his perceived value is higher than it should be and I don't see a good fit with him and the Avs. Just FTR, he would be an upgrade on the left side, but all things considered just not worth the assets we would spend to get him. Furthermore, in the KHL he didn't play on a bottom feeder, he played for Lokomotiv (Varly's lockout team) which was pretty darn good especially on the defense and when taking talent or perceived in comparison to actual performance on the ice, he was by far the worst defenseman on that roster.

As for MDZ, if he can be had for a reasonable price than he might be worth it, because he proved to some extent that he can at least play against better competition and not hurt his team when all is said and done, or to put it in a more simplistic way he does more good for his team than bad.

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07-12-2013, 11:42 AM
  #554
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Corey Pronman ‏@coreypronman 6m
COL's AHL affiliate Lake Erie signed QMJHL forward Gabriel Desjardins. Looks like @behindthenet is off to Ohio.

I like this. Hopefully another Agozzino sort of situation.

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07-12-2013, 11:59 AM
  #555
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Originally Posted by hockeyfish View Post
It will be interesting to see how they handle the cap next year. They must be banking on a steep rise. I'm not sure that will happen.
Given some of these contracts being handed out, I'm starting to believe it's a foregone conclusion that the cap is going to drastically rise in the next few years.

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07-12-2013, 12:05 PM
  #556
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So I'm still pretty shocked by this Kovy "retirement" if you can even call it that as all he is doing is going to go play in the KHL.

The more I think about the more I'm willing to say I hope the Avs never take a Russian or an eastern European ever again in the top 3 rounds of the draft. With the contracts these guys are getting in Russia there is no reason for them to stick around in the NHL with the salary cap. Its being reported the Kovy is signing in the 13-15M per year range that's insane no NHL team can come close to that number.

There is basically no incentive for the top Russian guys to stick around the NHL anymore, other than a chance at the Cup which obviously wasn't enough for Kovy.

I wouldn't be too surprised to see another big name or two jump ship for the KHL in the next couple of seasons for that kind of payday.

I'm starting to worry that if Varly has a good year next that the KHL will swoop in and make him an insane offer, and he'll use it as leverage against us and it will be difficult to re-sign him. At least we have Pickard and Aitto.
I'm not shocked per say that I knew it was a matter of time before a "big name Russian" would bolt to the KHL. I am bit shocked that Kovalchuk was that "big name Russian".

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07-12-2013, 12:14 PM
  #557
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I think we'd make better trade partners with the Caps. They could use one of Stastny or O'Reilly and have a few options on defense they could offer us.
Caps have only three top4 D's though. They need top 4 LD.

2C is another missing link but according to their GM, Brooks Laich is the answer as he is in same tier with Backes and Richards etc.

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07-12-2013, 12:26 PM
  #558
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I was never one of the people here who put all the blame on Sacco, sure he made a number of dumb decisions, but EJ needs to play better, this last season was just a prime example of talent gone to waste.

As for Kulikov, I wouldn't put him anywhere near our 1st pairing and since his role is that of a PMD with some serious holes in his D zone play he's not even well suited for the 2nd pairing role to play alongside Barrie, who already has a perfect partner for himself in Hejda. It all comes down to if trading for a guy like Kulikov would be worth it, IMHO it wouldn't be, because his perceived value is higher than it should be and I don't see a good fit with him and the Avs. Just FTR, he would be an upgrade on the left side, but all things considered just not worth the assets we would spend to get him. Furthermore, in the KHL he didn't play on a bottom feeder, he played for Lokomotiv (Varly's lockout team) which was pretty darn good especially on the defense and when taking talent or perceived in comparison to actual performance on the ice, he was by far the worst defenseman on that roster.

As for MDZ, if he can be had for a reasonable price than he might be worth it, because he proved to some extent that he can at least play against better competition and not hurt his team when all is said and done, or to put it in a more simplistic way he does more good for his team than bad.
I don't disagree that Kuli shouldn't be asked to do too much on a top pairing, but I do really dislike characterizing him as a PMD. Cause it's his defensive game that's impressed me much more than his offensive zone play. He's an excellent skater, but so far that's translated better for how he defends. Still has plenty to learn, and figuring out how to really settle down with the puck would help him avoid some of his uglier mistakes, but from what I saw he looked liek he'd partner up with EJ really well, wouldn't be a great first pairing off the bat, but would give us two very capable pairings in our top 4 right now, with a lot of room for growth.

MDZ I like less even though I do think he's a better player right now and much more effective in the offensive zone. If the price was right I'd move for him to, just because I trust EJ to cover for him, but I think a Kulikov would do more for us moving forward and bring more out of EJ once they started to really gel.

It's not a great comparison because Kuli still has a long ways to go defensively to get there, and his offense is already at his level, but I think Kuli would flourish like Vlasic did for Roy, he'd be a more offensive and less defensively amazing version of it, but next to EJ that's fine because I really do think that type of great skating and good defending partner is exactly the kind of guy that EJ would do best with. Which is why in fantasy world the Avs trade Mac, our 2014 1st round pick + for OEL and just have the awesome-est first pairing in the NHL for a decade.

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07-12-2013, 12:26 PM
  #559
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Not sure this question really belongs in this thread, but I didn't want to create a whole new one.

Anyone know the date of the preseason Las Vegas game this year? Can't find any preseason schedule, thinking perhaps it hasn't been released yet. Any help is appreciated.

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07-12-2013, 12:46 PM
  #560
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
Not sure this question really belongs in this thread, but I didn't want to create a whole new one.

Anyone know the date of the preseason Las Vegas game this year? Can't find any preseason schedule, thinking perhaps it hasn't been released yet. Any help is appreciated.
Yeah it hasn't been released yet

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Old
07-12-2013, 12:49 PM
  #561
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I really hope O'Reilly signs a long extension so all this talk about trading him can stop. He is not the type of player you trade, he's the type you win Stanley Cups with. I hope he is an Av for life.. at this point the only expendable C is Stastny.

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07-12-2013, 12:55 PM
  #562
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Originally Posted by Freaky Styley View Post
I really hope O'Reilly signs a long extension so all this talk about trading him can stop. He is not the type of player you trade, he's the type you win Stanley Cups with. I hope he is an Av for life.. at this point the only expendable C is Stastny.
I feel the same way about Stastny

When he comes out this year and blows you away with 90 pts in 80 games, then you will regret wanting to get rid of him and be able to tie his decline to Sacco. I don't understand how this isn't obvious to everyone, it used to be. Guess everyone has changed their minds

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07-12-2013, 12:55 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by Freaky Styley View Post
I really hope O'Reilly signs a long extension so all this talk about trading him can stop. He is not the type of player you trade, he's the type you win Stanley Cups with. I hope he is an Av for life.. at this point the only expendable C is Stastny.
I agree, but if they want to make a play for Vanek, moving Radar is the most sensible way to create space for the winger while fixing our D. Staz would get more out of Vanek than any of our Centers, and Radar would draw a much better return in trade.

Ideally we keep the top 9 together for a long time, with Sgar and Hish replacing Tangs and PAP as they age, and use Wilson, our picks and prospects to patiently fix up the D. I actually want to them to pair Radar and Staz with Landy so we can throw out one of the absolutely best two-way lines in the NHL that would dominate possession against anybody and let both Dutchy and Mac run wild against lesser lines. Which is what I hope and semi-expect to happen.

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07-12-2013, 12:58 PM
  #564
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I don't disagree that Kuli shouldn't be asked to do too much on a top pairing, but I do really dislike characterizing him as a PMD. Cause it's his defensive game that's impressed me much more than his offensive zone play. He's an excellent skater, but so far that's translated better for how he defends. Still has plenty to learn, and figuring out how to really settle down with the puck would help him avoid some of his uglier mistakes, but from what I saw he looked liek he'd partner up with EJ really well, wouldn't be a great first pairing off the bat, but would give us two very capable pairings in our top 4 right now, with a lot of room for growth.

MDZ I like less even though I do think he's a better player right now and much more effective in the offensive zone. If the price was right I'd move for him to, just because I trust EJ to cover for him, but I think a Kulikov would do more for us moving forward and bring more out of EJ once they started to really gel.

It's not a great comparison because Kuli still has a long ways to go defensively to get there, and his offense is already at his level, but I think Kuli would flourish like Vlasic did for Roy, he'd be a more offensive and less defensively amazing version of it, but next to EJ that's fine because I really do think that type of great skating and good defending partner is exactly the kind of guy that EJ would do best with. Which is why in fantasy world the Avs trade Mac, our 2014 1st round pick + for OEL and just have the awesome-est first pairing in the NHL for a decade.
You make an ok argument for trading for Kulikov, but not for trading O'Reilly for Kulikov IMO.

My original point stands, they'd need to add, and not a 2nd round pick either. I would trade O'Reilly for Yandle, but not for Kulikov. He's far too unproven, and too much of a question mark as I said.

Edit : Even Yandle, they'd need to let us talk to him about any intentions he has to move out East. I'd want to know if that's something hes set on personally.


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07-12-2013, 01:00 PM
  #565
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I feel the same way about Stastny

When he comes out this year and blows you away with 90 pts in 80 games, then you will regret wanting to get rid of him and be able to tie his decline to Sacco. I don't understand how this isn't obvious to everyone, it used to be. Guess everyone has changed their minds
There is nothing obvious about Stastny's decline. But i hope you are right and we get 90 points out of him (would be a first).

And i hope even more that he suceeds at LW.

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07-12-2013, 01:03 PM
  #566
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There is nothing obvious about Stastny's decline. But i hope you are right and we get 90 points out of him (would be a first).

And i hope even more that he suceeds at LW.
He won't be playing LW, RoR is. On duchene's wing.

He'll be centering Lando and Tanguay to start the season

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07-12-2013, 01:06 PM
  #567
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He won't be playing LW, RoR is. On duchene's wing.

He'll be centering Lando and Tanguay to start the season
I meant long term. There is where he will probably have to play if he wants to stay here after this season.

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07-12-2013, 01:08 PM
  #568
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You make an ok argument for trading for Kulikov, but not for trading O'Reilly for Kulikov IMO.

My original point stands, they'd need to add, and not a 2nd round pick either. I would trade O'Reilly for Yandle, but not for Kulikov. He's far too unproven, and too much of a question mark as I said.
Oh I don't want to make any moves with our forwards. But I could get on board with moving Radar for a Kuli type + trade if we make a move for Vanek simply because I used to live in Buffalo and still spend a lot of time there, so have thought Vanek and Staz would be amazing together for many years.

As for Kuli v Yandle Yandle's better, but I actually would rather trade for Kuli than him because I want EJ playing with another great skating two-way guy, even if we don't get Yandle's sweet, sweet offense. We have Barrie and Elliot on the way to give us offense from the second and third pairing. I want our top pairing to be able to fly around the ice and lock things down. I may well be too high on Kulikov, but I would not be happy with a Radar for Yandle trade.

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07-12-2013, 01:09 PM
  #569
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He won't be playing LW, RoR is. On duchene's wing.

He'll be centering Lando and Tanguay to start the season
Who knows what'll happen between now and then. If he's getting 90 points with Tanguay on his wing, he'll need to be much more of a goal scorer than in the past.

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07-12-2013, 01:09 PM
  #570
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If Joe Sakic accepts a deal in which he trades Radar for Kulikov I hope he gets fired on the spot.

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07-12-2013, 01:11 PM
  #571
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You make an ok argument for trading for Kulikov, but not for trading O'Reilly for Kulikov IMO.

My original point stands, they'd need to add, and not a 2nd round pick either. I would trade O'Reilly for Yandle, but not for Kulikov. He's far too unproven, and too much of a question mark as I said.

Edit : Even Yandle, they'd need to let us talk to him about any intentions he has to move out East. I'd want to know if that's something hes set on personally.
Yandle has three years left on his deal. He's not going to be bolting anytime soon, if at all.

It doesn't make much sense to ask him his intentions now. Even if he has intentions of going to Boston now he cold easily do a complete 180 in three years and decide to stay, after getting to know the city and seeing how competitive they hopefully are by then, and that he plays a big role in that.

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07-12-2013, 01:11 PM
  #572
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
Not sure this question really belongs in this thread, but I didn't want to create a whole new one.

Anyone know the date of the preseason Las Vegas game this year? Can't find any preseason schedule, thinking perhaps it hasn't been released yet. Any help is appreciated.
I got an email with a presale saying it was September 28.

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07-12-2013, 01:12 PM
  #573
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I meant long term. There is where he will probably have to play if he wants to stay here after this season.
Why? If Radar flourishes on the wing our forwards stack up perfectly to have a Radar-Stastny-Landy line to go up against top opposition and just dominate the puck, leaving Mac and Dutchy with lesser lines to feast on as both will get a crafty winger to feed them on one side, Parenteau, Tanguay, Sgarbossa and Hishon, and a sandpaper guy to make space and chip in with McGinn and Downie. That's a top 9 that could absolutely be at the top of the league in a few years when Dutchy, Mac, Landy and Radar start to hit their primes.

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07-12-2013, 01:13 PM
  #574
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Who knows what'll happen between now and then. If he's getting 90 points with Tanguay on his wing, he'll need to be much more of a goal scorer than in the past.
Or they could both just feed Landy for every single goal ever scored!

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07-12-2013, 01:21 PM
  #575
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Why? If Radar flourishes on the wing our forwards stack up perfectly to have a Radar-Stastny-Landy line to go up against top opposition and just dominate the puck, leaving Mac and Dutchy with lesser lines to feast on as both will get a crafty winger to feed them on one side, Parenteau, Tanguay, Sgarbossa and Hishon, and a sandpaper guy to make space and chip in with McGinn and Downie. That's a top 9 that could absolutely be at the top of the league in a few years when Dutchy, Mac, Landy and Radar start to hit their primes.
The three offensive line approach always sounds great in theory but never in practice. We've seen it since it was started. At least one of Stastny, Duchene, and O'Reilly have struggled offensively for long periods of time, and sometimes two of them at a time.

What is the only real example of it working? Pittsburgh, and that's because Jordan Staal accepted his role as more of a two way guy and could mesh with less talented linemates. Only O'Reilly can fill that role. Stastny needs talented linemates.

If Stastny and Duchene both start off producing consistent numbers next year it will be because they are being played like true top sixers, while MacKinnon is the one taking a backseat in his role and with his linemates.

That's all well and good but they're not going to keep a 1st overall pick in that role for long. Then what happens? Are Stastny and Duchene really going to keep up the same level of production. I don't think so. It just never seems to work that way. You have to have players playing in their roles.

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