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Habs have spoken with Jagr

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Old
07-07-2013, 09:43 PM
  #401
RealityBytes
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Originally Posted by Talik Sanis View Post
It almost sounds as if you're suggesting that "overpaid" is not relative to the player and his abilities; you know, of course, that it is not simply a matter of one player earning more than another. Clarkson is a glorified third-liner who put up 30 goals with likely unrepeatable shooting percentages and who is overvalued for the marginal impact his physicality and pugilistic skills have on actually winning games. Grabovski, on the other hand, is a low-end tough minutes first line center; he deserves to be paid more than Clarkson because he has a greater impact on the game. .
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Grabovski was overpaid, but not nearly as much as Clarkson is.
Et le But was talking about payment ... in dollars. Period.

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07-07-2013, 09:52 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
1- Habs aren't interested at all
2- Jagr couldn't care less about the Habs
3- Jagr is still really interesting in making the most money he can from this league

Take your pick.
I believe its #3 100%...why else would he have signed in Dallas. I mean really, Dallas?

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07-07-2013, 10:00 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Ditchweed View Post
Geez, that pensionplanpuppets negative comment all was written by one person (aka Bower Power who has an American email address btw) with one person's opinion, and he trashed a lot of teams. The second was by Chemmy, the guy with an Alfred E Neuman avatar and all he hated was losing Grabovski. Come on, you take these two "ordinary fan" messed up goofballs opinions over TV analysts. OK you can, I don't.

The comment by Cam Charron from Leafs nation is OK with Clarkson for the now and is just concerned about his age and the length of the contract, but even Nonis just about came out and stated the same for the contract length. For the next four years it is Clarkson instead of Grabovski in the lineup and we'll see how it turns out. Thing is you can't get anywhere if all you do is sit still and do nothing.

Anyway, the original point I was stating is that Toronto is making moves to get into the playoffs while Montreal is just marking time with fillers that do not improve, and doing what, aiming for fifth place in the division? Just using only drafting to improve to win the cup is a strategy that might have worked fourty years ago, but will never win anything now except being a first round playoff exit. Even Edmonton with their three firsts overall won't progress far if all they do is nothing but sit on their picks. FA players have to be added and fit in.
Well, like I said, if you want to take TSN/The Toronto Star/Don Cherry seriously just because of their status while disregarding internet writers like Chemmy because they are mere bloggers, go ahead. I get the logic, but I've also read enough on both Pension Plan Puppets and in the mainstream media to know whose opinions I value more. Yes, they can be goofballs, they troll and I've even gotten into a twitter argument with one of the PPP guys before when they claimed Eller won't be as good as Grabovski, but they are very reasonable when it comes to analyzing the Leafs.

Clarkson fits a narrative which sells, he's a tough Toronto boy willing to do whatever it takes for his team. Grabovski is a temperamental European who is better at biting than punching. Much of Grabovski's value in the past comes from how he was used - which brings up potential advanced stats, another tough sell.

And yeah, Nonis is proactively being aggressive to make the Leafs better. But change isn't always good, even if the intentions are, and I'm not convinced the Leafs are actually taking a step forward and not crippling themselves by trying to revive former glories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ditchweed View Post
Et le But was talking about payment ... in dollars. Period.
Well no, being overpaid is relative. For instance I think Briere is overpaid and Plekanec is not. The Oilers overpaid for Ferrance while I wouldn't complain if the Habs give Subban 6.5M a year.

If both Grabovski and now Clarkson are/were overpaid, the former still had a reasonable contract, even if he should have probably been earning at most 5M, while the latter is getting paid more than a garbage goal specialist, even a very good one, should reasonably get, and for an unreasonable amount of time.


Last edited by Et le But: 07-07-2013 at 10:10 PM.
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Old
07-07-2013, 10:28 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Well, like I said, if you want to take TSN/The Toronto Star/Don Cherry seriously just because of their status while disregarding internet writers like Chemmy because they are mere bloggers, go ahead. I get the logic, but I've also read enough on both Pension Plan Puppets and in the mainstream media to know whose opinions I value more. Yes, they can be goofballs, they troll and I've even gotten into a twitter argument with one of the PPP guys before when they claimed Eller won't be as good as Grabovski, but they are very reasonable when it comes to analyzing the Leafs.

Clarkson fits a narrative which sells, he's a tough Toronto boy willing to do whatever it takes for his team. Grabovski is a temperamental European who is better at biting than punching. Much of Grabovski's value in the past comes from how he was used - which brings up potential advanced stats, another tough sell.

And yeah, Nonis is proactively being aggressive to make the Leafs better. But change isn't always good, even if the intentions are, and I'm not convinced the Leafs are actually taking a step forward and not crippling themselves by trying to revive former glories.
Then we get to disagree because I would rather take Don Cherry's comments than the bloggers on SB. The rest as to who will be better, or what the better move was, is merely speculation by all at this point. We'll only see the first results by the end of the year.

Yes, change isn't always good, but doing nothing is usually worse. What I see is Nonis moving the Leafs in the right direction, at least in one direction, while I see MB as fumbling around and just putting "tire patches" on. As I said, just trying to build a cup winner by the draft alone will fail. Again, no one knows the future for sure, but what I see the Habs doing is sliding and not even "trying to revive former glories." Soon it will be 25 years with no cup, and the Habs will be on the same treadmill going nowhere and looking to the future. Montreal has to get off its butt and get a better rebuilding plan and put it in place, otherwise its just going to be a long empty wait.


PS: "[Leaf's] former glories" ... come on, at least use a phrase that is plausible like make the playoffs. Glories for the Leafs is a bit much and really dated.

-------------

I see you updated your post, so will I. When you stated that "Grabovski was overpaid, but not nearly as much as Clarkson is" it implied dollars and I answered in the actual dollar difference, Grabovski was going to be paid more in real dollars for four years. However, if this is now being changed as to whether a player is worth his payment is a completely different argument and not quantifiable. In that case, Clarkson may outshine Grabovski and give the Leafs the extra push they want. If he succeeds in that even for a few years he would be well worth what he is paid. How much are the intangibles worth? Nonis and the Leafs know this, and even Nonis says this is for the here and know and state it was the price we had to pay to get him. It is the difference between doing something that might fail but may work, versus doing nothing that will certainly fail.


Last edited by RealityBytes: 07-07-2013 at 11:10 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old
07-07-2013, 11:01 PM
  #405
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Only if he signs for 2 million not a penny more, but it aint gonna happen

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Old
07-08-2013, 02:22 AM
  #406
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Originally Posted by MsChanandlerBong View Post
I believe its #3 100%...why else would he have signed in Dallas. I mean really, Dallas?
he wants to play, he wants to be useful, in Dallas? he got all the space, 1st line, PPs ...
don't judge others by your thinking what you would do

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07-08-2013, 09:51 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Xegiie View Post
he wants to play, he wants to be useful, in Dallas? he got all the space, 1st line, PPs ...
don't judge others by your thinking what you would do
so you're the new jagr fanboy this time around?

philly: he wants to win cup
dallas: no he wants ice time
?

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Old
07-08-2013, 09:54 AM
  #408
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I have a bridge to sell anyone who believes Jagr is more than a mercenary at this point in his career.

He'll go where the money is. Bottom line. I hope to god it's not us.

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07-08-2013, 09:58 AM
  #409
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I have a bridge to sell anyone who believes Jagr is more than a mercenary at this point in his career.

He'll go where the money is. Bottom line. I hope to god it's not us.
He wanted to come to Mtl last year but they didn't offer him any contract(or was it the year before). So i don't think it's true at all.

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Old
07-08-2013, 10:08 AM
  #410
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Originally Posted by Shaby23 View Post
He wanted to come to Mtl last year but they didn't offer him any contract(or was it the year before). So i don't think it's true at all.
Wasn't last year, it was the year before when we had Gauthier as GM

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07-08-2013, 10:17 AM
  #411
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
so you're the new jagr fanboy this time around?

philly: he wants to win cup
dallas: no he wants ice time
?
I don't think he signed with the Flyers because he wanted the Cup. He believed he had a better chance for a high ice time and the 1st PP unit than in, say, Pittsburgh. He was pretty clear about that.

I suspect he values more highly getting a mediocre team into the play-offs than being a complementary player on a contender. I'm not sure if it's a good trait or bad but he's always been like that. And frankly, given his style of play, he's never going to be a great complementary player. However much he may try.

As for Montreal, I think it's quite simple. He really wants to play there - I don't recall him talking about any other team as his favorite destination, he did say he would love to play in Canada, but the Canadiens have been the only team he's ever specifically mentioned - but Bergevin doesn't want him. It makes no sense for Jágr or Svoboda to pretend interest in Montreal only to increase his value, why would they keep talking about the same team every summer? Why hurt one's ego for no reason?

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07-08-2013, 10:18 AM
  #412
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He could be useful on a 1 yr deal...big body, controls the puck etc

Still don't see it happening....

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07-08-2013, 11:58 AM
  #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaby23 View Post
He wanted to come to Mtl last year but they didn't offer him any contract(or was it the year before). So i don't think it's true at all.
Zzzz...he wanted to use us to drive his price up, you mean. Same story every year.

Just like how he's dying to play for a Canadian team, yet has never done so...despite multiple opportunities.

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07-08-2013, 12:00 PM
  #414
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Do. not. want

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07-08-2013, 12:01 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by windycity View Post
Do. not. want
why. not. ?

On a one year deal, he will be better than empty cap space. No way he gets a 2 year deal.

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07-08-2013, 12:16 PM
  #416
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Originally Posted by CrAzYNiNe View Post
why. not. ?

On a one year deal, he will be better than empty cap space. No way he gets a 2 year deal.
he's old, slow and wasn't productive in the playoffs. Would rather give a shot to a kid than a stop gap. Tho still would have preferred him to Briere

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07-08-2013, 12:24 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by windycity View Post
he's old, slow and wasn't productive in the playoffs. Would rather give a shot to a kid than a stop gap. Tho still would have preferred him to Briere
Like who? We don't have any kids ready to make the jump, Kristo appeared to be close but apparently was lacking character. Most of pur top 9 forward prospects are still a year or 2 out.

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07-08-2013, 12:33 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Zzzz...he wanted to use us to drive his price up, you mean. Same story every year.

Just like how he's dying to play for a Canadian team, yet has never done so...despite multiple opportunities.
Yup. I'm done hoping we'll sign him. Until he shows otherwise, he's all talk.

I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him here for a year to play with Plek, even though we'd have a logjam with a healthy top 9 (when does that ever happen though?). All depends on price. Don't think we should get into any sort of bidding war for an aging, declining, past his prime vet.

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07-08-2013, 12:35 PM
  #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windycity View Post
he's old, slow and wasn't productive in the playoffs. Would rather give a shot to a kid than a stop gap. Tho still would have preferred him to Briere
I don't see what the problem is with Jagr. He is better than any player not yet in our lineup.

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07-08-2013, 12:42 PM
  #420
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jeremy filosa ‏@j_filosa 8m
@garytalmeida I will go ahead and check if I can get any other info. #NHL
This is where he follows up with "Seems like talks have fallen through"

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07-08-2013, 12:44 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by Gary320 View Post
This is where he follows up with "Seems like talks have fallen through"
"My sources confirm that both sides are still talking and that negociations are still in progress, nothing will be done today though, still a long summer."

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07-08-2013, 12:50 PM
  #422
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Originally Posted by ZARTONK View Post
"My sources confirm that both sides are still talking and that negociations are still in progress, nothing will be done today though, still a long summer."
Actually posted the quote in the wrong thread.

Pretty much think it still applys to all rumours.

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07-08-2013, 12:51 PM
  #423
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Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
Like who? We don't have any kids ready to make the jump, Kristo appeared to be close but apparently was lacking character. Most of pur top 9 forward prospects are still a year or 2 out.
Louis Lebust

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Old
07-08-2013, 12:52 PM
  #424
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Zzzz...he wanted to use us to drive his price up, you mean. Same story every year.

Just like how he's dying to play for a Canadian team, yet has never done so...despite multiple opportunities.
What wrong with forcing somebody else to overpay and waste cap space that they won't have at the deadline? The habs are not all that cap rich and I doubt they dump cap to sign him so whatever offer they made is likely very reasonable if somebody else want to pay more it their problem. Don't give him an NTC and if the crap hit the fan and we are 15th at the deadline we get a third round pick for spending the money.

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Old
07-08-2013, 12:56 PM
  #425
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
For nostalgia reasons, even at his age, it would be a dream come true to see Jagr in a Habs jersey. And I'm sorry, when a player like Jagr WANTS to play for the CH, you find a way to get it done, even at his age.

1 year, assuming between 2.5 and 3 million? Get it done, Bergy.

+++++ 1

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