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Joe McDonnell leaving for Dallas, Wings to promote Jeff Finley and David Kolb

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Old
07-06-2013, 08:53 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
Yzerman is a terrible GM.
Holy crap.
What an overreaction

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07-06-2013, 08:55 PM
  #77
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I wonder if the decision to move has anything to do with the change in direction/philosophy in this year's draft...

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07-06-2013, 08:57 PM
  #78
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Agree, we've drafted some really fine prospects from the Q over the past few seasons.
Sadly, I think that was Mark Leach.

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07-06-2013, 09:31 PM
  #79
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Why the **** didn't Nill's contract have an anti-solicitation clause in it?

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07-06-2013, 09:33 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Rzombo4 prez View Post
Why the **** didn't Nill's contract have an anti-solicitation clause in it?
McDonnell and the other people who left we without contracts if I read correctly.

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07-06-2013, 09:36 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
My assumption is in this role he will run the Stars AHL team and have kind of the full gamut of responsibilities.
Stars fan coming peace. In what capacity do you see him running the Stars AHL team? The baby Stars have a newly appointed GM and a highly regarded head coach.

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07-06-2013, 09:36 PM
  #82
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With DET losing 2 veteran scouts to DAL, don't be surprised if recently departed CBJ Dir. of Amateur Scouting Tyler Wright turns up in DET

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07-06-2013, 09:36 PM
  #83
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Explains the Tyler Bertuzzi pick - this guy was in sabotage mode on his way out...

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07-06-2013, 09:39 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Ottomatic View Post
Explains the Tyler Bertuzzi pick - this guy was in sabotage mode on his way out...
I don't think this would happen, he was here for almost 20 years. Why would he burn that bridge?

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07-06-2013, 09:40 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Ottomatic View Post
Explains the Tyler Bertuzzi pick - this guy was in sabotage mode on his way out...
Gave me a good laugh, well done

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07-06-2013, 09:52 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
It's interesting to see that when it came to Holland vs Nill, most of Detroit's staff sides with Nill.

But at the same time, we shouldn't get so panicky. I know it hasn't happened to us lately, but this is pretty much how the hockey business works.
This type of thing happens when one guy leaves. He usually takes a couple guys with him. We heard this same stuff when Waddel left and even when Doug McLean left.

You want your guys to get jobs. That generally means you're doing a good job.

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07-06-2013, 10:03 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
EJ Hradek ‏@EJHradek_NHL
It seems he joined the Jackets in 07 as a development coach & he was promoted to director of amateur scouting in July of 2011.

I'm not sure about his record to honest. I'm not really sure of his role either but he was around & he must have had some influence on Atkinson, Calvert, Moore, Savard & Johansen. The only draft he was in charge for was 2012 & they didn't really hit any home runs in it though it is early to judge it.

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07-06-2013, 11:01 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
McDonnell and the other people who left we without contracts if I read correctly.
Doesn't really matter FWIW. I agree though that there is a very real possibility that the Wings brass no longer wanted these guys for whatever reason.

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07-06-2013, 11:03 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Stars fan coming peace. In what capacity do you see him running the Stars AHL team? The baby Stars have a newly appointed GM and a highly regarded head coach.
I was assuming he was promised something that made this more than a lateral move. Maybe not, Martin got more power than him in Detroit and a better grooming position so I figured that was a part of what McDonnell was targeting in moving on.

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07-06-2013, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ottomatic View Post
Explains the Tyler Bertuzzi pick - this guy was in sabotage mode on his way out...
You're probably joking, but that's not this group's style. If anything, they'd want to go out on the strongest possible note out of pride.

Besides, it's not like Detroit is in the same conference anymore.

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07-06-2013, 11:46 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Holy crap.
What an overreaction
The Flip contract and Vinny buyout are only the most recent evidence against Stevie as a competent GM.

The Lindback trade and contract.
Goalies and counting since summer 2010 : Helenius, Smith (oops!), Ellis, Lindback, Garon, Roloson, Bishop, Caron, Desjardins, and I think there are several more that I am leaving off.
Fleeces a first round pick out of Steve Downie then blows it on yet another goalie.
Traded Meszaros for a 2nd, he scores 32 pts and is a +30 the following year.
Overpaid for Carle and Salo just to keep the Wings from getting them.

One playoff appearance with a core he inherited but has since blown up. In the worst division in North American professional sports.

I could go on. I'm confident in my assessment.

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07-06-2013, 11:51 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
The Flip contract and Vinny buyout are only the most recent evidence against Stevie as a competent GM.

The Lindback trade and contract.
Goalies and counting since summer 2010 : Helenius, Smith (oops!), Ellis, Lindback, Garon, Roloson, Bishop, Caron, Desjardins, and I think there are several more that I am leaving off.
Fleeces a first round pick out of Steve Downie then blows it on yet another goalie.
Traded Meszaros for a 2nd, he scores 32 pts and is a +30 the following year.
Overpaid for Carle and Salo just to keep the Wings from getting them.

One playoff appearance with a core he inherited but has since blown up. In the worst division in North American professional sports.

I could go on. I'm confident in my assessment.
I bet he really wishes he'd traded for Bobrovsky instead of Lindback now

he even paid more for Lindback than Bobrovsky cost Columbus a week later

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07-06-2013, 11:54 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
Nobody respects Holland
I agree. When you have great guys leaving the organization after so long, you have to search for a common denominator. I would feel 100% more confident in the teams direction with Nill at the Helm than Holland and evidently McDonnell feels the same way...

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07-06-2013, 11:58 PM
  #94
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Good luck to McDonnell in Dallas. He's done well by the Wings, and I'm sure he's looking for new challenges and opportunities. Meanwhile, it opens up spots for new blood on the Wings end of things, and for guys to step into new roles. No one is guaranteed to succeed at them, but they're not guaranteed to fail, either.

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07-06-2013, 11:59 PM
  #95
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These guys may not have a job in a couple years in Dallas.

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07-07-2013, 12:06 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
I agree. When you have great guys leaving the organization after so long, you have to search for a common denominator. I would feel 100% more confident in the teams direction with Nill at the Helm than Holland and evidently McDonnell feels the same way...
This happens all the time though...

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07-07-2013, 12:22 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
This happens all the time though...
The Wings are a different organization: players play longer, coaches coach longer and management manages longer... Case in point, Nill has been Assist. GM for 19 years and Mcdonnel with Wings for 18 years.... Nill could have gotten up and left for a better job years ago but he didn't... Then following him was McDonnel who isn't even leaving for a higher rank. Should definitely raise a few eyebrows. The Yzerman was slightly different, a guy who wanted a promotion early in his management career.

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07-07-2013, 12:35 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
The Wings are a different organization: players play longer, coaches coach longer and management manages longer... Case in point, Nill has been Assist. GM for 19 years and Mcdonnel with Wings for 18 years.... Nill could have gotten up and left for a better job years ago but he didn't... Then following him was McDonnel who isn't even leaving for a higher rank. Should definitely raise a few eyebrows. The Yzerman was slightly different, a guy who wanted a promotion early in his management career.
I think it has more to do with them realizing Holland is going to be Lou Lamoriello. He isn't leaving and he isn't leaving anytime soon. Martin has a wife that has a great job in town, he doesn't want to leave part of why he turned down Yzerman. He got more control in the split between he and McDonnell. Writing is on the wall there. Nill left because he finally found the right fit and Holland is going to stay after this contract would be my guess.

Holland always hinted at retiring early, starting to look like he isn't going to. Should be pretty interesting for those that despise him because unless Chris Ilitch feels differently than his dad, he can likely keep his GM gig for another decade.

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07-07-2013, 02:48 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
The Flip contract and Vinny buyout are only the most recent evidence against Stevie as a competent GM.
Welp. That's just simply wrong. That Lecavalier contract was absolutely awful. The long term repercussions of that contract outweighed any positives a regressing and oft injured Lecavalier may contribute to the team in the mean time. The Filppula contract isn't that terrible either. Hardly evidence of his incompetence. I'd suggest that opposite.

Quote:
The Lindback trade and contract.
Goalies and counting since summer 2010 : Helenius, Smith (oops!), Ellis, Lindback, Garon, Roloson, Bishop, Caron, Desjardins, and I think there are several more that I am leaving off.
How many starting goalies have been acquired cheaply since he became GM? Roloson got him to the conference finals. Lindback vs. Bob was a toss up, imo. Both projected to be number 1 goalies.
Quote:
Fleeces a first round pick out of Steve Downie then blows it on yet another goalie.
Organization's biggest weakness.
Quote:
Traded Meszaros for a 2nd, he scores 32 pts and is a +30 the following year.
Overpaid for Carle and Salo just to keep the Wings from getting them.
Gagne was a contributing factor to that Conference Finals Bolts team, both Meszaros and Gagne have been nonfactors since that season. The Carle and Salo are the only legitimate criticisms I accept of your criticism.

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One playoff appearance with a core he inherited but has since blown up. In the worst division in North American professional sports.

I could go on. I'm confident in my assessment.
Said team he inherited was laden with terrible contracts and players, he's improved their prospect pool exponentially and shed many terrible contracts. Granted he has added 1-2 of his own, but that hardly quantifies him as a terrible GM. Your assessment is wrong. He's not a great GM, but he's not a bad one either.

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07-07-2013, 05:25 AM
  #100
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As long as they're able to find some competent new guys and assign a good head of amateur scouting, we'll be fine. But losing two guys who've been in the amateur scouting group for nearly 20 years must have an effect.
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Well I can certainly agree not to go overboard. But when you look at this Detroit team that gave the Cup winners all they could handle you see how the lion's share of the lineup came through drafting and development. So I am not really down with pretending the loss of Nill and McDonnell isn't a huge loss.

If you aren't concerned I have to question how much you really follow prospect development in Detroit. These guys both deserve a ton of credit.
Well said.

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Well then go, no one's making you stay here. Nill and the rest of his people are there for you in Dallas.
I'm no scout.

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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Well Nill is the guy who runs the draft, right? Or was it McDonnell? My guess is that it was Nill so he gets credit for drafting so many guys who ended up on the roster for a team that is still highly competitive.
They said that McDonnell had been more and more involved at the draft table of late, when Nill left.. but nothing more specific

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Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
It seems he joined the Jackets in 07 as a development coach & he was promoted to director of amateur scouting in July of 2011.

I'm not sure about his record to honest. I'm not really sure of his role either but he was around & he must have had some influence on Atkinson, Calvert, Moore, Savard & Johansen. The only draft he was in charge for was 2012 & they didn't really hit any home runs in it though it is early to judge it.
Too soon on two goalies that they picked at rounds 2 and 3.

Curcuruto is looking like an excellent pick for a 7th rounder. 47 points in 67 games last year, +37. 9 in 11 games at playoffs, +7. Not that numbers always tell everything.

But Brock Otten, who also posts here and who's opinion I value highly, had this to say about the kid.

Quote:
6. Gianluca Curcuruto - Plymouth Whalers
Last year was a disaster for Curcuruto, as harsh as it sounds. He came into the year as a potential first round selection for the NHL draft, and ended up a 7th rounder after a 16 point, -14 year on a roller coaster Greyhound team. That lead to his trade to Plymouth in exchange for Mitchell Dempsey (ask Greyhound fans how they like that deal now). Curcuruto has now re-established himself as one of the top '94 defenseman in the league. He's become Plymouth's top defenseman and is now brimming with confidence. His 9 goals on the year are triple that of his career high, and he's going to (likely) post his first positive +/- in his three year OHL career. His ability to run the powerplay, lead the rush, and defend his zone with urgency have taken massive steps forward. He looks like a new man in the green and blue.
From his draft year

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6. Gianluca Curcuruto - Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds
A very composed and intelligent defenseman, Curcuruto was maybe the top all around defenseman for the Hounds in his freshman season. He played in all situations for the team and finished at only -1 on the year...which has to be considered quite the feat on a last place team. I think we're looking at a player who's only scratching the surface of his potential; a potential we're likely to see more of next year.
The first link also mentions Josh Anderson, 4th rounder that year.

Quote:
10. Josh Anderson - London Knights
While the offensive numbers don't go jumping out at you (19 goals, 39 points thus far), you have to watch him play to truly appreciate what he does for London on a nightly basis. We saw flashes of this last year; that budding power forward approach. But nothing to the extent that we're seeing this year. He's so incredibly difficult to stop with the puck on his stick and he really wears down opposing defenses and creates space for his linemates. Nearly every time I've seen London play, he's stood out for the right reasons. And that includes his play away from the puck too. His shot and ability to score off the rush still needs improvement in order for him to take that next step as a goal scorer, but I think he deserves a place on this list based on what he's been able to accomplish this season.
But yah, it's still vert early.

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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
The Flip contract and Vinny buyout are only the most recent evidence against Stevie as a competent GM.
Buyout was the right thing to do.

Flip contract might turn out bad but he hasn't played a game yet,

Quote:
The Lindback trade and contract.
Trade was pretty much fair two, 2nds and 3rd.

Varlamov got 1st and 2nd.

Bernier got Fratting, Scrivens and second.

Bobrovsky got 2nd and two 4th rounders. That is looking like the best of these three.

And how was the contract bad? 2 years at 1.8 mil and is RFA after the season.

If Lindbäck pans out, that is great trade anyway. That trade wasn't made for just the past season.

Quote:
Goalies and counting since summer 2010 : Helenius, Smith (oops!), Ellis, Lindback, Garon, Roloson, Bishop, Caron, Desjardins, and I think there are several more that I am leaving off.
Helenius was their own draft pick and hasn't played a game in Tampa. Desjardins was minor league move.

Smith has had one very good season, in one of the best defensive systems in the league.

He hasn't been able to get solid starter and if all of Janus, Bishop, Lindbäck, Wilcox and Vasilevski bust, he has failed I'd say. Goalie graveyard, but imo it's way too early for that.

Quote:
Fleeces a first round pick out of Steve Downie then blows it on yet another goalie
What if that goalie becomes franchise goalie? He is one of the best goalie prospects in the league. Who would have you picked there? As the biggest weakness of the franchise is/was in net.

Quote:
Traded Meszaros for a 2nd, he scores 32 pts and is a +30 the following year.
And has been suffering badly from injuries and supposedly they are looking to dump him. He has been solid when he's played but at the time, I recall Flyers hating the deal. So maybe we are wiser years after trade, same could apply to other trades, like Downie, Lindäck and Bishop trade.

Quote:
Overpaid for Carle and Salo just to keep the Wings from getting them.
Salo was great for Tampa last year. He helped Hedman a lot. His contract ends next year anyway, and has been worth the money.

Carle contract might turn bad, I think he is little overpaid but we are just on year one of the deal.

Quote:
One playoff appearance with a core he inherited but has since blown up. In the worst division in North American professional sports.
Only Vinny is gone of that core. Well one can count Ohlund maybe, but doubt it's Yzerman's fault that Ohlund's knees are done.

He has also acquired pretty good prospects in Conacher, J.T Brown, Gudas, Ty Johnson, Namestnikov, Kucherov, Palat, Sustr, Richard, Paquette,

Don't till years if they pan out.

I'm not saying he's done great job. I'm not saying he's been one of the best GMs in the league. I'm no saying I'd have done every move he has made, I agree with every move or he hasn't made mistakes.

I'm saying that it's too early to say that he sucks at GMing.

Who do you think are the 5 best GMs in the league? Where were they in year 3 of their jobs?

I view Dean Lombardi as a good GM. He didn't make playoffs in his first three years as a GM.

Tallon built the Hawks pretty well. Neither did Hawks make the postseason in his first 3 years as a GM.

Some have done better ofc, but I think they got better tools to work with to begin with.

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