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Phoenix XCVII: Forget it, Jake. It's Glendale.

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Old
07-15-2013, 08:17 AM
  #751
kyle evs48
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Surely it's been posted somewhere, but exactly how much money has Jobing/the team lost in the last few years?

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07-15-2013, 09:53 AM
  #752
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Originally Posted by Thomas L View Post
And yet they couldn't assemble a syndicate of local investors.
The locals have witnessed this clown act for four years now and have no interest in losing money! Hard to understand exactly how the league and these investors are going to come away with more than what they have in this? Consider, in the case of RSE, their investment in five years at the very best will be worth maybe what they have in it, so why do it? The obstacles to prosperity remain the same today as they were the last four years. Higher ticket prices and parking fees are going to lessen the appeal to even the best of fans. The arena remains in a bad location, only made worse by an expanding metro population using the roads. Beyond this year, the cap begins to rise again, do we really think a financial buyer is going to spend money on players?

Regardless of Tips and GMDM experience and know-how they will be given less than mediocre talent and asked to perform miracles. Any hope for improved attendance and revenues will reside in a successful on ice product, and if the on ice product falters, how many seats are going to be filled for the new ownership group? Not many.

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07-15-2013, 10:25 AM
  #753
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Consider, in the case of RSE, their investment in five years at the very best will be worth maybe what they have in it, so why do it?
Therein lies the question, as surely their little more than a front, temporary Wards of the franchise who for all intensive purposes are employed by the NHL. I dont know mesa. No idea what the end-game is, where this is headed. Pretty sure the on-ice product will be good, competitive, and I guess we'll see if the seasoned & casual fans respond, buy in. Its the rest that concerns me. The non-hockey revenues. Concerts & events.

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07-15-2013, 10:27 AM
  #754
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Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
Surely it's been posted somewhere, but exactly how much money has Jobing/the team lost in the last few years?
According to forbes, the teams operating losses were 20 million annually for 2011-2012 and the 2 seasons prior.

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07-15-2013, 10:38 AM
  #755
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Surely it's been posted somewhere, but exactly how much money has Jobing/the team lost in the last few years?
Take it with a grain of salt, but....

In the documents filed with the Phoenix bankruptcy court, the NHL stated that the league took official control of the team on November 14, 2008. The league then began advancing money to the club from league revenues, and made a loan to the club in February 2009, for a combined estimated total of $44.5 million over the full season. Moyes' documents filed with the court indicated that the team had lost $73 million over the last three years, and that the projected loss was $45 million for 2008–09. In the September 2009 bankruptcy hearings it was noted that an audit had shown that the team had never made a profit since moving from Winnipeg and lost $54.8 million in 2008.

On December 23, 2008, the Toronto Globe and Mail reported that the Coyotes had lost an estimated $200 million since 2001 and in recent years posted heavy losses, including $41.6 million in 2006-07, $37.3 million during the 2007-08 season, and $54 million in 2008-09.

****

As for the last few years, I don't believe ( assumption warning ) the team has been losing as much as they stated during the BK hearings, but lets assume it's around the $25MM mark per season as that's what the NHL has been asking for to offset the cost of running the team. And going forward RSE is asking the CoG for $15MM/yr and the NHL is promising them max revenue sharing forever of ~$20MM/yr, so do the math...

Bottom line... it's a large negative number.

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07-15-2013, 11:07 AM
  #756
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Not sure if this is more fodder for this thread or the markham one but the toronto star had an interesting article the other day I came across at field of schmes that says globals pitch to glendale that it was imperative to have the coyotes in glendale to make the arena profitable was completely contradictory to what global is telling markham to get them to build the arena claiming the arena would still be profitable without a pro sports tenant.


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07-15-2013, 11:19 AM
  #757
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Originally Posted by hisgirlfriday View Post
Not sure if this is more fodder for this thread or the markham one but the toronto star had an interesting article the other day I came across at field of schmes that says globals pitch to glendale that it was imperative to have the coyotes in glendale to make the arena was completely contradictory to what global is telling markham to get them to build the arena claiming the arena would still be profitable without a pro sports tenant.
I dont actually recall Global Spectrum ever making a presentation to Glendale Council hgf. RSE/IceAz announced them as "partners" in their venture without revealing what kind of "partnership" it was going to be, how much they were paying GS to manage the building or if it was based on %'s or what, but I cant remember, havent seen such a statement from them like that. You sure your remembering correctly? SMG & Colangelo's group bid to manage the building sans a hockey team, but notably absent was GS & AEG from that process.... as for Markham, appears theres been a lot of "misinformation" floated, from Global Spectrum & Roustan. As in outright misrepresentations & lies.

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07-15-2013, 11:22 AM
  #758
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Originally Posted by hisgirlfriday View Post
Not sure if this is more fodder for this thread or the markham one but the toronto star had an interesting article the other day I came across at field of schmes that says globals pitch to glendale that it was imperative to have the coyotes in glendale to make the arena was completely contradictory to what global is telling markham to get them to build the arena claiming the arena would still be profitable without a pro sports tenant.
Link to article:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013...ig_tenant.html

To quote:

"That differs to what Luukko told the Associated Press as councillors in Glendale, Ariz. voted for a lease agreement between the city’s struggling arena and the pending owners of the Phoenix Coyotes. Any arena in a major market needs a big league sports team “to be successful,” said Luukko whose company will operate the Glendale facility.

But in a note to Markham council, Russo has emphasized that Global Spectrum remains confident about its prospects in the city without a major franchise.

“The GTA itself is a significantly bigger market than Phoenix/Glendale and offers a greater opportunity for commercial viability,” Russo said in the note, obtained by the Star. “The GTA is clearly underserviced with arena seating compared to the population.”"

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07-15-2013, 11:31 AM
  #759
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Sorry my bad.

Global Spectrum chair Peter Luuko was quoted talking about the glendale deal rather than pitching it when he said that without a major sports tenant the arena wouldn't work.

But that's still the opposite of the claims being made by global spectrum in their bid to manage markham where contrary to rival live nation and all outside experts global spectrum is claiming the markham arena should still be built and could make money with gs running it, even without a pro sports team.

Eta: thanks for providing the link llama.

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07-15-2013, 11:42 AM
  #760
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Originally Posted by hisgirlfriday View Post
But that's still the opposite of the claims being made by global spectrum in their bid to manage markham where contrary to rival live nation and all outside experts global spectrum is claiming the markham arena should still be built and could make money with gs running it, even without a pro sports team.
Ya, and Roustan claimed he was on the short list with Peladeau & Molsons to buy the Montreal Canadiens, and further claimed he had the blessings of NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman that if you build it, we will come type whispers through the cornfields. So ya. The only ones buying GS & Roustans guff are they themselves apparently, that a new arena in Markham without an anchor tenant is at all viable, which it isnt, and even with one, problematical, and not unlike Glendales situation in many ways.


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07-15-2013, 11:49 AM
  #761
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So, a question about this thread in general:

Assuming that RSE closes without complications and they own the team lock and stock come early Aug-what will be the future of this thread? Will it be an ongoing discussion watching the various reports on finances?

I would just think that this would really be a "closed case"-at least until RSE decides to announces its selling the franchise.

Or does this just become more a general business discussion thread, which I would have no problem with either

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07-15-2013, 11:51 AM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
So, a question about this thread in general:

Assuming that RSE closes without complications and they own the team lock and stock come early Aug-what will be the future of this thread? Will it be an ongoing discussion watching the various reports on finances?

I would just think that this would really be a "closed case"-at least until RSE decides to announces its selling the franchise.

Or does this just become more a general business discussion thread, which I would have no problem with either
you cannot expect people to just go cold turkey, can you?

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07-15-2013, 11:54 AM
  #763
Tinalera
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you cannot expect people to just go cold turkey, can you?
NO, I guess I can't

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07-15-2013, 11:56 AM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
So, a question about this thread in general:

Assuming that RSE closes without complications and they own the team lock and stock come early Aug-what will be the future of this thread? Will it be an ongoing discussion watching the various reports on finances?

I would just think that this would really be a "closed case"-at least until RSE decides to announces its selling the franchise.

Or does this just become more a general business discussion thread, which I would have no problem with either
It may go something like the Star Trek episode, The [Glendale] Immunity Syndrome...

Spock: Doctor, even I, a half-Vulcan, could hear the death scream of four hundred Vulcan minds crying out over the distance between us.

Source: http://www.chakoteya.net/startrek/48.htm

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07-15-2013, 11:56 AM
  #765
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So... if you had $80-85m to invest now (like the RSE group expects to have if they can close this deal) in order to enhance/increase revenues for the Coyotes, what would you do ?

I'd go Waterpark (Inside-Winnipeg joke).

But seriously, I'm guessing they need a return of about 30% annually on this money to meet ongoing cashflow issues. I'm intrigued by what their plan is.
While reading the following think of Spike the Bulldog and his trusty side-kick Chester the Terrier....

Jones: "you wanna hear some news Tony, do ya, do ya, do ya? I've got some news Tony. Do ya, do ya, do ya wanna know Tony, do ya?"

LeBlanc: "Nahhhhh"

Jones: "you and me's is pals, huh Tony, aren't we, aren't we, aren't we Tony? The news is gonna floor you. Do ya, .....do ya, do ya wanna know Tony ..... do ya?"

LeBlanc smacking Jones upside the head. "Nahhhhh, shut up Jonesy."

Jones: "we's pals, huh Tony, aren't we, aren't we, aren't we Tony? Let's go for a wobbly pop Tony, want to, want to Tony?"

LeBlanc:. "Later"

Jones: "people at HFBOards suggesting our plan has all the chances of succeeding as did the Forks Waterpark Tony. Hawker14 almost implying our plan to resurrect the dead in the desert won't work, he's intrigued by our plan Tony. Will it, will it, will it work Tony? Will our plan work Tony, will it, will it, will it work Tony?"

LeBlanc smacking Jones upside the head. "Nahhhhh"


Last edited by enarwpg: 07-15-2013 at 11:58 AM. Reason: Edit HTML tag
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07-15-2013, 12:25 PM
  #766
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The attendance issue has multiple reasons for the anemic support. I contend that the location in Glendale is a major problem for the pre-holiday crowds during the weekdays! Too many folks do not want to fight the sun and traffic. say what you will, if the arena was located where the Ice Den is attendance would not be as much of a problem.
There's been a number of manned missions to the moon and fans don't turn up because of the sun, the traffic and the location!

Highly unlikely

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07-15-2013, 12:35 PM
  #767
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you cannot expect people to just go cold turkey, can you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
NO, I guess I can't
Quote:
Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
It may go something like the Star Trek episode, The [Glendale] Immunity Syndrome...

Spock: Doctor, even I, a half-Vulcan, could hear the death scream of four hundred Vulcan minds crying out over the distance between us.

Source: http://www.chakoteya.net/startrek/48.htm

You're in luck since the kindest, most considerate, understanding, empathic admin ever hears your cries of agony.


I think we can allow a business gentlemen's and ladies' club. I'm thinking something British Colonial in terms of decor-- lots of leather-bound club chairs, a bar, some ferns, fireplaces.

Given some of the most popular themes that have come up, instead of having the Club housed in Hotel California, perhaps it should Hotel Portmeirion-- both being evocative of the checking out but never being able to leave situation. Prisoners, if you will.

Killion can set the club hours for the Cockpit Bar.

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07-15-2013, 12:45 PM
  #768
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You're in luck since the kindest, most considerate, understanding, empathic admin ever hears your cries of agony.


I think we can allow a business gentlemen's and ladies' club. I'm thinking something British Colonial in terms of decor-- lots of leather-bound club chairs, a bar, some ferns, fireplaces.

Given some of the most popular themes that have come up, instead of having the Club housed in Hotel California, perhaps it should Hotel Portmeirion-- both being evocative of the checking out but never being able to leave situation. Prisoners, if you will.

Killion can set the club hours for the Cockpit Bar.


Will 'Rover' make a return, too?

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07-15-2013, 12:46 PM
  #769
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You're in luck since the kindest, most considerate, understanding, empathic admin ever hears your cries of agony.


I think we can allow a business gentlemen's and ladies' club. I'm thinking something British Colonial in terms of decor-- lots of leather-bound club chairs, a bar, some ferns, fireplaces.

Given some of the most popular themes that have come up, instead of having the Club housed in Hotel California, perhaps it should Hotel Portmeirion-- both being evocative of the checking out but never being able to leave situation. Prisoners, if you will.

Killion can set the club hours for the Cockpit Bar.
Membership has its privileges

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07-15-2013, 12:49 PM
  #770
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They do this on their way up the ladder, then they do it on their way down from Provincial, State & Federal Politics my dear madhi. We get them climbing up, then falling down. Right now in Montreal, Denis Coderre running for Mayor. He of Shane Doan Blasphemy huh? Sued for $450,000. Total idiot. As Daniel 007 Craig says, "politicians, all of them, total ****heads". Until I heard him say that, just another jack punk piece a crap stunt man like Jason Stratham and not even an actor.
A jack punk piece of crap stunt man - who married Rachel Weiss. Who's laughing now!

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07-15-2013, 12:51 PM
  #771
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I think we can allow a business gentlemen's and ladies' club. I'm thinking something British Colonial in terms of decor-- lots of leather-bound club chairs, a bar, some ferns, fireplaces.
I'll take a beanbag chair in front of the fire place ... thanks. We'll keep it brown leather as to not clash. Will keep my cognac ( that Killion will be serving me ) warm.

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07-15-2013, 12:58 PM
  #772
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Will 'Rover' make a return, too?
No, no, Rover won't be needed, that much is obvious.

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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
I'll take a beanbag chair in front of the fire place ... thanks. We'll keep it brown leather as to not clash. Will keep my cognac ( that Killion will be serving me ) warm.

I'll have a replica of my Mod Lounge chair made for the bar.


Killy knows I only drink Hendrick's & tonic, twist of lime. Two cubes of pure ice. Will have to spec out a Kold-Draft ice machine.

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07-15-2013, 01:09 PM
  #773
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Given some of the most popular themes that have come up, instead of having the Club housed in Hotel California, perhaps it should Hotel Portmeirion-- both being evocative of the checking out but never being able to leave situation. Prisoners, if you will.

Killion can set the club hours for the Cockpit Bar.
Extended Run through June 2018, Open 24/7, on the house, party never stops, live acts... www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIBEo-hUARQ

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A jack punk piece of crap stunt man - who married Rachel Weiss. Who's laughing now!
I am. Done that whole SuperModel/Actress dealeo. Mommy warned me.... but I josh. Likin Jason Stratham. Highly entertaining.

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07-15-2013, 01:11 PM
  #774
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Extended Run through June 2018, Open 24/7, on the house, party never stops, live acts... www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIBEo-hUARQ

I knew I could count on you to throw a party no one would ever want to leave.

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07-15-2013, 01:32 PM
  #775
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Killy knows I only drink Hendrick's & tonic, twist of lime. Two cubes of pure ice. Will have to spec out a Kold-Draft ice machine.
Oh you betcha, nice units, just sent them an email. Hendricks the house gin. Hand crafted in Girvan Scotland. M4B there'll look after you. Cant miss him. Clan Kilt, Bagpipes.... mebbe get him to play a cameo on the bandwagon www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIXV0cir4-E

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I knew I could count on you to throw a party no one would ever want to leave.
Medical staff on standby, defibrillators, oxygen, got it all covered.

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