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Phoenix XCVII: Forget it, Jake. It's Glendale.

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07-15-2013, 02:08 PM
  #776
Llama19
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Coyotes payment plan designed to soften blow to Glendale

To quote:

"According to the contract, the city will complete its $15 million annual obligation to the team in equal $3.75 million payments paid at the end of each quarter.

The team, however, is required to submit a portion of its reimbursements to the city on a continuous basis. Ticket surcharges on all events must be transferred to the city within two business days after being collected, according to the contact.

The team must transfer the city’s portion of parking fees to Glendale on a quarterly basis.

“In a perfect world, we would collect enough in revenue to pay each quarter in arrears, so it doesn’t have to be all paid up front,” [acting City Manager Dick] Bowers said.

“That prevents us from having to go under, and then play catch-up,” he said."

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...blow-city.html

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07-15-2013, 02:11 PM
  #777
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Take it with a grain of salt, but....

In the documents filed with the Phoenix bankruptcy court, the NHL stated that the league took official control of the team on November 14, 2008. The league then began advancing money to the club from league revenues, and made a loan to the club in February 2009, for a combined estimated total of $44.5 million over the full season. Moyes' documents filed with the court indicated that the team had lost $73 million over the last three years, and that the projected loss was $45 million for 2008–09. In the September 2009 bankruptcy hearings it was noted that an audit had shown that the team had never made a profit since moving from Winnipeg and lost $54.8 million in 2008.

On December 23, 2008, the Toronto Globe and Mail reported that the Coyotes had lost an estimated $200 million since 2001 and in recent years posted heavy losses, including $41.6 million in 2006-07, $37.3 million during the 2007-08 season, and $54 million in 2008-09.

****

As for the last few years, I don't believe ( assumption warning ) the team has been losing as much as they stated during the BK hearings, but lets assume it's around the $25MM mark per season as that's what the NHL has been asking for to offset the cost of running the team. And going forward RSE is asking the CoG for $15MM/yr and the NHL is promising them max revenue sharing forever of ~$20MM/yr, so do the math...

Bottom line... it's a large negative number.
Past losses totally, completely irrelevant.

Why?

Because under the watchful eye of the highly skilled RSE management team, things WILL turn around with it being claimed that profitability could come as soon as year 3....

Basically it all boils down to "they have a plan" and why should it be questioned or made fun of.

time will telll

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07-15-2013, 02:14 PM
  #778
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Is there any indication that RSE would want to move should their out-clause kick in?

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07-15-2013, 02:16 PM
  #779
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Hmmm...this article has the Arizona AG investigating violations of the Open Meeting Law. [Mod: In Deer Valley, regarding school budget.]

Do you think that the complaint against the Glendale City councilmembers is not far behind?


Last edited by Fugu: 07-15-2013 at 03:24 PM. Reason: ...
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07-15-2013, 02:29 PM
  #780
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The team must transfer the city’s portion of parking fees to Glendale on a quarterly basis.
There's just that one big parking lot next to the job, then across the street Westgate lots & so on, further afield UofP's & Tangers. Wonder how their going to manage this. You cant be charging shoppers or moviegoers ten bucks. So if your going to a game, why wouldnt you just park over at Tangers or Westgate lots, walk over, save yourself ten bucks? They planning to do some kind of a deal with iStar & the Merchants, Tanger & the Bidwells? We talking permanent parking gates & stanchions or guys running around in orange safety vests with pockets full of cash, portable barriers n' whatnot? Do they subcontract it out & if so, whats that worth out of every ten bucks? Just goes on & on. Numbers, projections, conceptually looks all neat & pretty on paper but have they thought it through, logistically?

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07-15-2013, 02:34 PM
  #781
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Hmmm...this has the Arizona AG investigating violations of the Open Meeting Law. Do you think that the complaint against the Glendale City councilmembers is not far behind?
Interesting, too bad I cant read the article without buying a subscription. Readers Digest version plz Llama...

And no kyle, no indication that they plan to exercise the out clause, but that its there, losing $10M a year X's 5 pretty much guaranteed, looks like a relo is certainly a possible end-game, option. They wouldnt come right out & state that now, but they might say next year or the year after, demanding the public buy X number of seasons tickets "or else" type thing.

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07-15-2013, 02:54 PM
  #782
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Interesting, too bad I cant read the article without buying a subscription. Readers Digest version plz Llama...

And no kyle, no indication that they plan to exercise the out clause, but that its there, losing $10M a year X's 5 pretty much guaranteed, looks like a relo is certainly a possible end-game, option. They wouldnt come right out & state that now, but they might say next year or the year after, demanding the public buy X number of seasons tickets "or else" type thing.
From the article:

"The Open Meeting Law requires agendas to be posted at least 24 hours in advance and to include enough information to reasonably inform the public of what will be discussed.

The Attorney General’s Office would not provide further details pending the active investigation.

“We are in our fact-finding stage right now,” said Stephanie Grisham, spokeswoman for the Attorney General’s Office.

Grisham added that the Attorney General’s Office looks into every complaint filed, but only opens an investigation if it receives multiple similar complaints or tangible evidence is submitted. An investigation can last between one and six months, she said.

“No assumptions should be made until the letter and outcome have been resolved. The district has been working with its attorney throughout the entire (Desert Winds) repurposing process to ensure all legal steps were followed,” district spokeswoman Heidi Vega said.

School-board member Michael Gregoire, who has previously criticized the board as lacking transparency, said the agenda was not clear enough to ensure parents and other members of the public clearly knew the board would vote to close Desert Winds."

In Glendale's case, with the 'serial' meetings with the NHL held on May 28, that is also a violation of the Open Meeting Law.

I'm sure that this is a 'warning' shot of things to come...

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07-15-2013, 02:54 PM
  #783
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Source: http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...blow-city.html

Dealings between IceArizona and the NHL are progressing, said league Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly.

“Things are going well. The target is to close the transaction and transition ownership sometime during the first week of August,” Daly said in an e-mail to The Republic.


So why does this take so long?

Surely IceArizona had all their ducks in a row and all the ducats ready to go... right?

Unless this was a case of LeBlanc and group going " Holy crap, they actually voted Yes, and now we have to really come up with the money. Empty those piggy banks boys. "

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07-15-2013, 02:57 PM
  #784
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Source: http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...blow-city.html

Dealings between IceArizona and the NHL are progressing, said league Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly.

“Things are going well. The target is to close the transaction and transition ownership sometime during the first week of August,” Daly said in an e-mail to The Republic.


So why does this take so long?

Surely IceArizona had all their ducks in a row and all the ducats ready to go... right?

Unless this was a case of LeBlanc and group going " Holy crap, they actually voted Yes, and now we have to really come up with the money. Empty those piggy banks boys. "
With only about $1.1M put up by the nine other remaining 'partners' (Gosbee put up $35M), their piggy banks are already...


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07-15-2013, 02:59 PM
  #785
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You're in luck since the kindest, most considerate, understanding, empathic admin ever hears your cries of agony.


I think we can allow a business gentlemen's and ladies' club. I'm thinking something British Colonial in terms of decor-- lots of leather-bound club chairs, a bar, some ferns, fireplaces.

Given some of the most popular themes that have come up, instead of having the Club housed in Hotel California, perhaps it should Hotel Portmeirion-- both being evocative of the checking out but never being able to leave situation. Prisoners, if you will.

Killion can set the club hours for the Cockpit Bar.
Just give me the high backed leather chair in the corner, with all mirrors and mask decor. I'll fit right in with my gin and tonic



BTW-about that 5 year clause: is it that RSE must wait 5 years before executing the clause, or if the 50 million loss happens WITHIN 5 years (IE in 2 years they lose 50 millions they shutter it up)?

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07-15-2013, 03:19 PM
  #786
Killion
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I'm sure that this is a 'warning' shot of things to come...
Thanks, and yes, I suppose it could get nasty, but by that time, one month to six, a little late huh? Horse left the barn. Maybe some form of sanctioning, fines, but beyond that?

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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
So why does this take so long?
Id guess Lawyers. Something this complicated & complex, I shudder to think. Loan agreement from the NHL alone probably the size of a Manhattan phone directory.

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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
Just give me the high backed leather chair in the corner, with all mirrors and mask decor. I'll fit right in with my gin and tonic..
... ok, but watch out for this one, liable to cause a riot... www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iYVJCEGTsU Maskmakers.

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07-15-2013, 03:29 PM
  #787
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Thanks, and yes, I suppose it could get nasty, but by that time, one month to six, a little late huh? Horse left the barn. Maybe some form of sanctioning, fines, but beyond that?



Id guess Lawyers. Something this complicated & complex, I shudder to think. Loan agreement from the NHL alone probably the size of a Manhattan phone directory.



... ok, but watch out for this one, liable to cause a riot... www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iYVJCEGTsU Maskmakers.
Now, see, that's the thing I'm trying to educate about, not ALL mask wearers are psychos or revolutionaries.....

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07-15-2013, 03:50 PM
  #788
Killion
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Now, see, that's the thing I'm trying to educate about, not ALL mask wearers are psychos or revolutionaries.....
... would you invite this home for dinner?


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07-15-2013, 05:16 PM
  #789
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Hmmm...this article has the Arizona AG investigating violations of the Open Meeting Law. [Mod: In Deer Valley, regarding school budget.]

Do you think that the complaint against the Glendale City councilmembers is not far behind?
Based on published reports, the COG clearly violated the Open Meeting Law by deliberately having sequential private meetings between small groups of COG council members and representatives of RSE and the NHL to discuss issues related to the subsequent resolution to provide a contract worth >$200 million to RSE. Beyond that, substantial changes to the arena lease agreement were introduced within the public meeting session, rather than in advance, so that the public had no advance opportunity to review the actual substance of the final lease agreement.

But I can't see how that matters. The COG has never faced any consequences for violating procedures or legal requirements before, so why would this be any different.

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07-15-2013, 05:31 PM
  #790
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BTW-about that 5 year clause: is it that RSE must wait 5 years before executing the clause, or if the 50 million loss happens WITHIN 5 years (IE in 2 years they lose 50 millions they shutter it up)?
5 years and $50M in losses.

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07-15-2013, 05:34 PM
  #791
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Based on published reports, the COG clearly violated the Open Meeting Law by deliberately having sequential private meetings between small groups of COG council members and representatives of RSE and the NHL to discuss issues related to the subsequent resolution to provide a contract worth >$200 million to RSE. Beyond that, substantial changes to the arena lease agreement were introduced within the public meeting session, rather than in advance, so that the public had no advance opportunity to review the actual substance of the final lease agreement.

But I can't see how that matters. The COG has never faced any consequences for violating procedures or legal requirements before, so why would this be any different.
FWIW, complaint to AG's office seems DOA. While Ken Jones has said he has paid petition collectors supporting his referendum attempt, there doesn't appear to be any evidence of that in and around Glendale. Mr. Jones has taken up his regular spot by the library, but I haven't seen or heard of others collecting petitions in support of his efforts.

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07-15-2013, 05:48 PM
  #792
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5 years and $50M in losses.
Thanks So if they hit 50 million losses by year 3 for example, they are still waiting another two years before they can yank the outclause.

Interesting.

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07-15-2013, 06:27 PM
  #793
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Oh you betcha, nice units, just sent them an email. Hendricks the house gin. Hand crafted in Girvan Scotland. M4B there'll look after you. Cant miss him. Clan Kilt, Bagpipes.... mebbe get him to play a cameo on the bandwagon
Is this him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e5J116IM6M

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07-15-2013, 06:37 PM
  #794
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Thanks So if they hit 50 million losses by year 3 for example, they are still waiting another two years before they can yank the outclause. Interesting.
I believe the NHL's own rules call for any club wishing to move that they apply in writing no later than January 1st of the year before they want to relocate. Therefore, RSE would have to do that by January 1st 2017, late 2016 if they want to move for the 2018/19 season...

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Is this him?
Very similar, but no, our M4B, full on 14" high fluorescent orange Mohican, more metal in his face than Pinhead.

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07-15-2013, 07:40 PM
  #795
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FWIW, complaint to AG's office seems DOA. While Ken Jones has said he has paid petition collectors supporting his referendum attempt, there doesn't appear to be any evidence of that in and around Glendale. Mr. Jones has taken up his regular spot by the library, but I haven't seen or heard of others collecting petitions in support of his efforts.
As I've noted before, I would be very surprised if there was any impediment to this deal arising from Glendale. I also expect RSE to close the sale, since they need to raise so little capital. The future of the Coyotes will now settle into a story line that will last over the next few years.

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07-15-2013, 09:24 PM
  #796
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I believe the NHL's own rules call for any club wishing to move that they apply in writing no later than January 1st of the year before they want to relocate. Therefore, RSE would have to do that by January 1st 2017, late 2016 if they want to move for the 2018/19 season...
Unless, of course, they choose to ignore the rules... which they did for the Thrashers.

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07-15-2013, 09:30 PM
  #797
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Fraid I dont TL. But Im sure youve seen the movie Throw Momma from the Train? The character actress Anne Ramsey?
Norma: Who the HELL are you!?

Leblanc: I'm the owner of the Coyotes.

Norma: The Coyotes don't have an owner!

Leblanc: That's because they're mismanaged.

Norma: No they're not. They're fat and they're stupid! Get out of my house!

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07-15-2013, 09:38 PM
  #798
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Unless, of course, they choose to ignore the rules... which they did for the Thrashers.
They weren't ignoring the rule but were the party actually negotiating the relocation and sale. ASG was dysfunctional and simply ready to divest itself of owning the team. If ASG had wished to continue owning the team and moving it, then the rule would apply.

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07-15-2013, 09:41 PM
  #799
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Youd think people would learn from that no? Yet here we are again. Le Blanc "guaranteeing" chasms crossed, bridges built. Fool me once yes? Or has the turnover been such that yesterdays lessons are forgotten?
I guess the old saying needs to be amended to take Glendale into consideration:
fool me once, shame on you
fool me twice, shame on me
fool me thrice, I *really* should be ashamed
fool me fourthrice, I'm obviously an easily-exploited dupe
fool me quince, by all means come back for more, I'm good for it.


Last edited by Glacial: 07-15-2013 at 09:51 PM. Reason: left out one word
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07-15-2013, 10:10 PM
  #800
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As I've noted before, I would be very surprised if there was any impediment to this deal arising from Glendale. I also expect RSE to close the sale, since they need to raise so little capital. The future of the Coyotes will now settle into a story line that will last over the next few years.

And a very good outcome that is. It would give us all an excuse to hang out here a while longer!

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