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Phoenix XCVII: Forget it, Jake. It's Glendale.

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Old
07-15-2013, 10:25 PM
  #801
Llama19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacial View Post
I guess the old saying needs to be amended to take Glendale into consideration:
fool me once, shame on you
fool me twice, shame on me
fool me thrice, I *really* should be ashamed
fool me fourthrice, I'm obviously an easily-exploited dupe
fool me quince, by all means come back for more, I'm good for it.
When it comes to Glendale, they 'always' want more...

Thank you sir can I have another...

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07-15-2013, 11:24 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
I believe the NHL's own rules call for any club wishing to move that they apply in writing no later than January 1st of the year before they want to relocate. Therefore, RSE would have to do that by January 1st 2017, late 2016 if they want to move for the 2018/19 season...
(cough) (cough) Thrashers to Winnipeg announced in May (cough) (cough)

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07-16-2013, 12:11 AM
  #803
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
(cough) (cough) Thrashers to Winnipeg announced in May (cough) (cough)
I pointed this out earlier, but the owners of the Thrashers were not seeking to move the team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
They weren't ignoring the rule but were the party actually negotiating the relocation and sale. ASG was dysfunctional and simply ready to divest itself of owning the team. If ASG had wished to continue owning the team and moving it, then the rule would apply.

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07-16-2013, 07:50 AM
  #804
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They weren't ignoring the rule but were the party actually negotiating the relocation and sale. ASG was dysfunctional and simply ready to divest itself of owning the team. If ASG had wished to continue owning the team and moving it, then the rule would apply.
Not really. They can choose to waive the bylaw in any situation. If the BOG decides relocation is in their best interest they will simply vote on it and make it so.

Quote:
Section 36.1 of the NHL bylaws states that an application for relocation must be submitted by Jan. 1 of the year prior to relocation unless a majority of the member clubs consents to a later filing date.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=644163

http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/v5/con...oyotesDaly.pdf

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07-16-2013, 09:11 AM
  #805
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Originally Posted by Potrzebie View Post
Not really. They can choose to waive the bylaw in any situation. If the BOG decides relocation is in their best interest they will simply vote on it and make it so.
Oh absolutely. Most here well aware that their just as likely to make it up on the fly as follow their own Constitution, Rules & By-Laws. Whatevers convenient, expeditious. If they were to apply their own rules pursuant to the purchase of a club, theres absolutely no way in Hell this deal would even get past page one. Makes it almost impossible to guess or speculate as to what the NHL might be thinking or planning in any given situation, as they dont or wont play by their own book. Tossed right out the window, vehicle off the tarmac, off-roading to God knows where, bumpy ride...

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07-16-2013, 10:48 AM
  #806
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Oh absolutely. Most here well aware that their just as likely to make it up on the fly as follow their own Constitution, Rules & By-Laws. Whatevers convenient, expeditious. If they were to apply their own rules pursuant to the purchase of a club, theres absolutely no way in Hell this deal would even get past page one. Makes it almost impossible to guess or speculate as to what the NHL might be thinking or planning in any given situation, as they dont or wont play by their own book. Tossed right out the window, vehicle off the tarmac, off-roading to God knows where, bumpy ride...
If there's one thing I've learned (cynically) on the BoH boards-it is that almost all businesses and bureaucracy make sure to write rules in such a way that if they need a way to change it, they can.

How many times during this saga, be it Glendale, NHL or whomever, there was a rule that we all got excited about that something would or wouldn't happen BECAUSE of said rule, and it turns out that the rule in question simply is interpreted in a certain way and it's not a problem anymore. Because on any given rule, when you get into rules and byrules/laws, exceptions, there's almost always a way to do things to get the result you want.

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07-16-2013, 11:23 AM
  #807
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Any word on the petition drive? It would be epic for Jones to pull this off.

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07-16-2013, 11:26 AM
  #808
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Any word on the petition drive? It would be epic for Jones to pull this off.
As the thread title states: 'Forget it, Jake. It's Glendale.'

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07-16-2013, 11:49 AM
  #809
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...there's almost always a way to do things to get the result you want.
Ya, and this is the NHL's problem, lot in life with respect to perception, estimation of their character combined as being little better than Bush League. They trot out their rules when its convenient, ignore them entirely when inconvenient. And of course when they do ignore them, all Hell breaks loose. Bottom line?

Integrity has no need of rules.

Albert Camus

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07-16-2013, 12:00 PM
  #810
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Deal signed yet?

No?

Okay.


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07-16-2013, 12:10 PM
  #811
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Deal signed yet?
No?
Okay.
... pretty much nailed it there with that gif ajmidd. Id hazard to guess it goes right down to the wire. Early August, 1st-4th. There are I believe some reasons for doing so, some possible obstacles, mines that might explode. Hard to say, but it would be rather embarrassing if they did push it only to be confronted with whatever that may derail the closing/sale.

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07-16-2013, 12:43 PM
  #812
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Originally Posted by Llama19 View Post
As the thread title states: 'Forget it, Jake. It's Glendale.'
Ok according to GlendaleFirst he needs 6958. Figure 9000 just to be safe. Too bad he didn't set up a website to take donations to hire a petition company, he could have gotten the money in an hour.

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07-16-2013, 12:49 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Ok according to GlendaleFirst he needs 6958. Figure 9000 just to be safe. Too bad he didn't set up a website to take donations to hire a petition company, he could have gotten the money in an hour.
I wonder though if thats allowed do you think? Dont you need to do it old school, with actual paper & canvassers? Hard copies?

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07-16-2013, 12:55 PM
  #814
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
Deal signed yet?

No?

Okay.
Even when it's over, it's not over.

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07-16-2013, 01:02 PM
  #815
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Originally Posted by Potrzebie View Post
Not really. They can choose to waive the bylaw in any situation. If the BOG decides relocation is in their best interest they will simply vote on it and make it so.



http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=644163

http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/v5/con...oyotesDaly.pdf

Who would file the application?

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07-16-2013, 01:07 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
I wonder though if thats allowed do you think? Dont you need to do it old school, with actual paper & canvassers? Hard copies?
Yeah but there is no rule (as far as I know) that says the people who canvass and get the signatures can't be paid, and there is nothing stopping anyone from giving Ken Jones money to help him pay for it.

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07-16-2013, 01:11 PM
  #817
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I really think its too late to move the Yotes if for some reason the deal falls through. With Winnipeg, everything was lined up and ready to go. Seattle or Quebec are nowhere as ready as True North was. Lame duck season at best. But I think its a done deal and they are staying for now.

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07-16-2013, 01:48 PM
  #818
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Originally Posted by seasontixholder View Post
I really think its too late to move the Yotes if for some reason the deal falls through. With Winnipeg, everything was lined up and ready to go. Seattle or Quebec are nowhere as ready as True North was. Lame duck season at best. But I think its a done deal and they are staying for now.
I wouldn't lose sleep over one lame duck season. It would actually be quite entertaining. Seeing the deal unravel would be funny.

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07-16-2013, 02:03 PM
  #819
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... pretty much nailed it there with that gif ajmidd. Id hazard to guess it goes right down to the wire. Early August, 1st-4th. There are I believe some reasons for doing so, some possible obstacles, mines that might explode. Hard to say, but it would be rather embarrassing if they did push it only to be confronted with whatever that may derail the closing/sale.
It will all depend upon if the money they are using to buy the team with has a picture of Benjamin Franklin on it OR a picture of a big 100 and the word Monopoly.

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07-16-2013, 02:13 PM
  #820
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It will all depend upon if the money they are using to buy the team with has a picture of Benjamin Franklin on it OR a picture of a big 100 and the word Monopoly.
Surely they wouldnt mess around with that cbc.... cant imagine.... beyond embarrassing. Of course we'd never really know, as the NHL seems bound & determined to force this thing through & would likely give them time & terms IF thats a problem. I suppose alternatively they could come out & announce that the deals cratered due to "financing difficulties" without being specific but still. Id also assume that by now the other 29 clubs Alternates & BOG's will have been briefed fully on this thing. Amazing the absolute dead silence from any quarter. Fear of being Fined I suppose. Gag Orders. Youd think guys like Melnyk in Ottawa amongst others might have something to say about it no?

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07-16-2013, 05:20 PM
  #821
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Just for laughs....

http://agency.governmentjobs.com/val...ro/default.cfm

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Job Title: Mayor Scruggs Internship
Closing Date/Time: Thu. 07/25/13 5:00 PM Pacific Time
Salary: $10.00 Hourly
Job Type: Part-Time Temporary

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07-16-2013, 06:19 PM
  #822
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Who would file the application?
I would think the team owner, but why would it matter? The point is that as it states in the league bylaws, the "deadline" for application to move a team of January of the year prior to the application can be waived or ignored by a simple majority BOG vote for a current or future owner, as it was for TNSE.

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07-16-2013, 06:54 PM
  #823
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Originally Posted by Potrzebie View Post
I would think the team owner, but why would it matter? The point is that as it states in the league bylaws, the "deadline" for application to move a team of January of the year prior to the application can be waived or ignored by a simple majority BOG vote....
Pretty much meaningless. Might just as well have employed the services of Donald Knuth, one time contributor to Mad Magazine to have compiled & written the NHL's Constitution and its various By-Laws, including in each the Potrzebie Clause. To be interpreted in any way the reader, the leagues BOG's and or its Commissioner & Officials see fit. A word without meaning that kinda looks impressive, expensive, impossible to pronounce.... Consider this exchange, the setting a Court Room circa 1956, Toronto owner Conn Smythe being Deposed by Lawyer Milton Mound, hired by Ted Lindsay, Doug Harvey & others to force the league to accept a Players Association:

Ted Lindsay: What By-Laws? Ive been in the league 12 years, Ive never seen no By-Laws.
Conn Smythe: (brandishing a book) Theyre right here.
Milton Mound: May I see them please?
Conn Smythe: Theyre confidential.
Milton Mound: How can a By-Law be confidential?
Conn Smythe: Only the Governors are privy to them. Says so right here, in the By-Laws.
Milton Mound: Well, you show me where it says that.
Conn Smythe: Your prohibited from seeing the By-Laws. It says so in a By-Law...

... and the more things change, the more they remain the same with this league.

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07-16-2013, 07:12 PM
  #824
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Pretty much meaningless. Might just as well have employed the services of Donald Knuth, one time contributor to Mad Magazine to have compiled & written the NHL's Constitution and its various By-Laws, including in each the Potrzebie Clause. To be interpreted in any way the reader, the leagues BOG's and or its Commissioner & Officials see fit. A word without meaning that kinda looks impressive, expensive, impossible to pronounce.... Consider this exchange, the setting a Court Room circa 1956, Toronto owner Conn Smythe being Deposed by Lawyer Milton Mound, hired by Ted Lindsay, Doug Harvey & others to force the league to accept a Players Association:

Ted Lindsay: What By-Laws? Ive been in the league 12 years, Ive never seen no By-Laws.
Conn Smythe: (brandishing a book) Theyre right here.
Milton Mound: May I see them please?
Conn Smythe: Theyre confidential.
Milton Mound: How can a By-Law be confidential?
Conn Smythe: Only the Governors are privy to them. Says so right here, in the By-Laws.
Milton Mound: Well, you show me where it says that.
Conn Smythe: Your prohibited from seeing the By-Laws. It says so in a By-Law...

... and the more things change, the more they remain the same with this league.
sounds like something out a peter sellers movie......

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07-16-2013, 07:13 PM
  #825
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Originally Posted by Potrzebie View Post
I would think the team owner, but why would it matter? The point is that as it states in the league bylaws, the "deadline" for application to move a team of January of the year prior to the application can be waived or ignored by a simple majority BOG vote for a current or future owner, as it was for TNSE.

TNSE had to buy the team before they could file for a relocation application. Their purchase of the Coyotes or Thrashers had been pending for months, apparently. Even IF they had to get a relo approved before buying the team, it's not like they were the owners who could file an application. ASG, the owners at that time, had no interest in moving the team themselves, so obviously they weren't going to file an application for a relocation.

I think [perhaps] that the By-law refers to an existing owner who would like to move a team. If the NHL is leading the charge in finding a NEW owner and they're considering relocation, it's almost implied that the relocation has been approved by the BOG.

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