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Alfie's tenure with the wings will most resemble...?

View Poll Results: pick one or more!!
Mike Modano 10 10.10%
Steve Yzerman (post knee surgery) 8 8.08%
Steve Thomas 1 1.01%
Marian Hossa 14 14.14%
Luc Robataille 50 50.51%
Robert Lang 19 19.19%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-11-2013, 02:05 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Yemack View Post
Alfi 'felt' he was under appreciated? I dont think that's the case at all. Everyone in ottawa even the toddler there knows what Alfredsson did for the team.
I'm not talking about fans.
I'm talking about Bryan Murray, the ownership and organizational management.


Quote:
It's not like in normal office job where you do things people have no idea what you exactly do and people take your work for granted. Alfredsson's work has been watched very carefully every game and couple media covering as well. His work was revered and respected.
It's more like an office job than you know.
At the end of the day, the "paycheck" tells you how much you're worth.
And when you make a pay demand and your boss says your demand is unfair, and then you never return to the table to bargain and leave -- it's pretty obvious where the hitch was.


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I have my theories as to why some events occurred in this Alfredsson saga, but those are all wild theories and not gonna post them as to prevent you from wasting your time to pick it apart trying to prove them wrong.
At the end of the day, the Red Wings did the Senators a favor. They don't have to overpay a 41 year old on his last legs.

It'll be up to the Red Wings to put this horse out to pasture

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07-11-2013, 02:15 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Amyklas View Post
really not that big of a difference, especially considering the situation in Ottawa last year. Like I said, the two players are very comparable. But simply put, Alfie is better defensively, and he outproduced in the playoffs. I'd say the Wings got a pretty good player. If you pick up Iggy to "keep the flies" off, you made a bad choice.
I think the situation in Calgary was a little worse than in Ottawa (lol).
Iggy is a big physical forward that can produce on the top 6, something the Wings have needed for a long time, the reason a slug like Abby played most of the year with Pav.
Alfredsson is a small skilled forward something the Wings have an over abundance of on the team and in the system. At this stage of his career, I doubt he is much better than Nyquist or Tatar would be given the opportunity, which they probably won't get yet again this year.

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07-11-2013, 02:22 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
As #1 center, Turris led his team to the playoffs at 23 years old.
Stephen Weiss as #1 center didn't get into the playoffs until 28. And Weiss ranked probably behind Fleischmann, Campbell and Versteeg in importance on that team
Campbell, arguably yes.

But not behind Versteeg and Flash, based on my impression and what Panthers fans have been talking about.

What makes you think Versteeg and Flash were ahead of him importance?

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07-11-2013, 02:24 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
And when you make a pay demand and your boss says your demand is unfair, and then you never return to the table to bargain and leave -- it's pretty obvious where the hitch was.
Do you have source/link for this?

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07-11-2013, 02:24 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
I'm not talking about fans.
I'm talking about Bryan Murray, the ownership and organizational management.




It's more like an office job than you know.
At the end of the day, the "paycheck" tells you how much you're worth.
And when you make a pay demand and your boss says your demand is unfair, and then you never return to the table to bargain and leave -- it's pretty obvious where the hitch was.




At the end of the day, the Red Wings did the Senators a favor. They don't have to overpay a 41 year old on his last legs.

It'll be up to the Red Wings to put this horse out to pasture
I did not follow senators to know how they treated each players but you may have a point about him being under appreciated by management. I have a close relative who left an incredibly lucrative CFO job because he felt he was under appreciated constantly.

If Alfredsson was under appreciated all these years by management, then I think the possibility is definitely there. However, I do not know how he was treated by organization. It was my understanding that he was respected well in which case, I dont think this negotiation played a key role in changing his mind.

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07-11-2013, 02:33 PM
  #56
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Ottawa is on the right track if history tells us anything, it is as soon as the fire Bryan Murray, nice things will happen. Alfie realized they weren't ready to do that yet and knows with Murray you are there just before a cup, not with one and he got out of dodge because of his limited time left. (1/2, the whole teams win after Murray thing is true)

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07-11-2013, 02:35 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Johnz96 View Post
I think the situation in Calgary was a little worse than in Ottawa (lol).
Iggy is a big physical forward that can produce on the top 6, something the Wings have needed for a long time, the reason a slug like Abby played most of the year with Pav.
Alfredsson is a small skilled forward something the Wings have an over abundance of on the team and in the system. At this stage of his career, I doubt he is much better than Nyquist or Tatar would be given the opportunity, which they probably won't get yet again this year.
Look back at the Ottawa injury situation...Alfie's situation was worse. (lol)

Iggy's physical game is lacking with his age. Both he and Alfie can produce on top-6, something Wings needed for a long time. Again, if you're brining in Iggy for physicality, you're doing it wrong. And again, Iggy was not an option, so the continued comparisons are moot.

As far as your Alfie assessment, it's purely your opinion that he's not "much better than Nyquist or Tatar" at this stage. You're entitled to that, but baseless opinions don't hold much water.

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07-11-2013, 02:41 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Do you have source/link for this?
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl--sp...005219399.html

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...otiations.html

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07-11-2013, 02:42 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Amyklas View Post
Look back at the Ottawa injury situation...Alfie's situation was worse. (lol)

Iggy's physical game is lacking with his age. Both he and Alfie can produce on top-6, something Wings needed for a long time. Again, if you're brining in Iggy for physicality, you're doing it wrong. And again, Iggy was not an option, so the continued comparisons are moot.

As far as your Alfie assessment, it's purely your opinion that he's not "much better than Nyquist or Tatar" at this stage. You're entitled to that, but baseless opinions don't hold much water.
Aflie was beaten in points by Turris -- a guy who Wings fans think isn't as good as Weiss

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07-11-2013, 02:52 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Aflie was beaten in points by Turris -- a guy who Wings fans think isn't as good as Weiss
Turris is the same age as Nyquist. If he was draftyed by the Wings, he would still be trying to crack the Wings lineup as a regular.
He wasn't better than Weiss in 2011-12 but he probably is now and most certainly will be soon enough

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07-11-2013, 02:53 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Aflie was beaten in points by Turris -- a guy who Wings fans think isn't as good as Weiss
Come on it's not all about points and you know that.

Sens fans final grades for last year.

Looking through it quickly, basically everyone has Alfie above Turris, except for one poster. Alfie gets As or A- for most.

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07-11-2013, 02:56 PM
  #62
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Come on. What kinds of grades would Stevie Yzerman be getting from fans after finishing second in scoring at 40 years old

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07-11-2013, 02:59 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Come on. What kinds of grades would Stevie Yzerman be getting from fans after finishing second in scoring at 40 years old
A lot better if he could still skate.

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07-11-2013, 03:01 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Amyklas View Post
Look back at the Ottawa injury situation...Alfie's situation was worse. (lol)

Iggy's physical game is lacking with his age. Both he and Alfie can produce on top-6, something Wings needed for a long time. Again, if you're brining in Iggy for physicality, you're doing it wrong. And again, Iggy was not an option, so the continued comparisons are moot.

As far as your Alfie assessment, it's purely your opinion that he's not "much better than Nyquist or Tatar" at this stage. You're entitled to that, but baseless opinions don't hold much water.

Just to say that Alfie's situation in Ottawa (who made the playoffs) was better than Iggy's in Calgary shows you are not thinking about this with an open mind.
Tatar scored 7 points with 204 mins of ice-time a point every 29 mins of ice-time (you can't score from the bench). Alfie scored 26 points with 909 mins of ice-time, a point every 35 mins of ice-time and with a lot more PP time and always playing with his best teammates. Alfie is declining Tatar is improving.
Is that baseful enough for you?
Iginla would have been 3rd on the Wings in hits drives to the net hard and would be the Wings' toughest fighter. Iggy might have been an option if they approached him.he probably would have signed here if we sent put an ambassador (Pav or Z) to talk to him like we did with Alfie.


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07-11-2013, 03:01 PM
  #65
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most importantly, re Turris vs Alfie
Even Strength points
Plalayer RS PO Total
Kyle Turris 20 7 27
Alfredsson 14 3 17

Considering these guys were linemates -- it's pretty clear which guy drove the bus and which guy paid the fare

Give Alfie some bones for some SH points, but whatever. Not sure we're going to use him in that role anyway

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07-11-2013, 03:02 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Johnz96 View Post
Just to say that Alfie's situation in Ottawa (who made the playoffs) was better than Iggy's in Calgary shows you are not thinking about this with an open mind.
Tatar scored 7 points with 204 mins of ice-time a point every 29 mins of ice-time. Alfie scored 26 points with 909 mins of ice-time, a point every 35 mins of ice-time and with a lot more PP time and always playing with his best teammates. Alfie is declining Tatar is improving.
Is that baseful enough for you?
Run the same numbers with Brunner. Brunner comes out ahead in points, period, let alone points-per-60 minutes

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07-11-2013, 03:03 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Run the same numbers with Brunner. Brunner comes out ahead in points, period, let alone points-per-60 minutes
I know and he isn't going to cost $5.5m

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07-11-2013, 03:03 PM
  #68
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A lot better if he could still skate.
You know what I'm saying though.
Fan grades of the beloved career captain --- aren't a great indicator of much more than how much the fans love the captain.

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07-11-2013, 03:03 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Johnz96 View Post
Just to say that Alfie's situation in Ottawa (who made the playoffs) was better than Iggy's in Calgary shows you are not thinking about this with an open mind.
Tatar scored 7 points with 204 mins of ice-time a point every 29 mins of ice-time. Alfie scored 26 points with 909 mins of ice-time, a point every 35 mins of ice-time and with a lot more PP time and always playing with his best teammates. Alfie is declining Tatar is improving.
Is that baseful enough for you?
no, but thank you for trying. The two are simply not in the same category. And 7 points is still 7 points. I love Gus, and I think he'll be great...but it has no bearing on how i see Alfie bringing value to the Wings

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07-11-2013, 03:08 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
You know what I'm saying though.
Fan grades of the beloved career captain --- aren't a great indicator of much more than how much the fans love the captain.
Yeah I know. But I'm just not sure the Alfredsson signing is being evaluated in the proper light. I think overall, Brunner is the better long term choice (obviously) and he would also be cheaper in the short term. But what if Brunner isn't in the Wings plans long term regardless? I see him as a very nice complimentary player, but we have players coming up who project to be better than him. I wonder if Brunner were 24 if he would have been let go over 500k or whatever it'll end up being.

I still believe in the short term that Alfredsson and his intangibles will be a greater value. Whether or not it's ******** or not, I think Alfredsson is a guy a team can rally around. I don't know if this is our 2008 all over again with Dallas Drake after a good showing against the Ducks in 2007. But I'm just guessing one possibility is that Brunner at a certain price works in the short term, but his roster spot is saved for someone else. Who that is, I don't know.

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07-11-2013, 03:08 PM
  #71
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no, but thank you for trying. The two are simply not in the same category. And 7 points is still 7 points. I love Gus, and I think he'll be great...but it has no bearing on how i see Alfie bringing value to the Wings
One cannot score from the bench.

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07-11-2013, 03:34 PM
  #72
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Counting the playoffs, Alfie had 1 more point than Brunner. The biggest difference, though, is Brunner was a 3rd liner and playing 13-14 minutes a game at the end of the season and in the playoffs because his line would get out scored with him on the ice at ES against the other teams better players. Alfie was, at worst, the second best forward on a playoff team and can play 18 to 19 minutes a game and play top competition while producing points at a top 6 level. He's also a great point man on the power play. Just in terms of being a complete hockey player who can play in all situations and in defending a lead late in the game, Alfie is clearly better than Brunner if that is the comparison being made and is one reason why both Detroit and Boston were after him on day 1 while Brunner remains unsigned and won't get nearly as high a salary.

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07-11-2013, 04:43 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
You know what I'm saying though.
Fan grades of the beloved career captain --- aren't a great indicator of much more than how much the fans love the captain.
Modano was panned by Dallas fans and forced to leave by his team. So it's not a guarantee just because you are a departing captain you'll get fan love.

Maybe Ottawa fans are more sentimental.

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07-11-2013, 05:17 PM
  #74
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Tell me any other player of Alfie's caliber in the NHL who you can sign for a 1 year deal?

I think everyone is missing this point - he signed a contract with us that perfectly fits our timeline to get our players into the organization.

If he gets outplayed by Tatar or Nyquist they will take his spot and he'll slide down to the second line, or maybe he will have a resurgence and light it up.

If KH thinks that Tats and Nyquist are better players given a year in the NHL this makes much more sense than to sign Brunner.

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07-11-2013, 05:40 PM
  #75
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If KH thinks that Tats and Nyquist are better players given a year in the NHL this makes much more sense than to sign Brunner.
This appears to be the reasoning the organization is using. We'll see guys like Nyquist, Tatar, and Jurco be into the fold, some in the top 6, in the next few years. A Brunner deal beyond 2 years would sort of handcuff those plans.

I don't think Brunner works particularly well in the bottom 6 unless you're 3rd line, like last playoffs, is scoring based.

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