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Alfie's tenure with the wings will most resemble...?

View Poll Results: pick one or more!!
Mike Modano 10 10.10%
Steve Yzerman (post knee surgery) 8 8.08%
Steve Thomas 1 1.01%
Marian Hossa 14 14.14%
Luc Robataille 50 50.51%
Robert Lang 19 19.19%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-11-2013, 07:37 PM
  #76
SportsballChic
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Interesting write up by one of our rookie users on her blog on the whole Alfredsson situation. Hasn't been around for the last little while, but for those that are interest pretty enjoyable read in my opinion.

http://sportsballchic.blogspot.com/
Hey, thanks a lot for the kind words.

edit: you win. That was fast with the edit. lol.


Last edited by SportsballChic: 07-11-2013 at 07:42 PM.
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07-11-2013, 07:49 PM
  #77
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Tell me any other player of Alfie's caliber in the NHL who you can sign for a 1 year deal?

I think everyone is missing this point - he signed a contract with us that perfectly fits our timeline to get our players into the organization.

If he gets outplayed by Tatar or Nyquist they will take his spot and he'll slide down to the second line, or maybe he will have a resurgence and light it up.

If KH thinks that Tats and Nyquist are better players given a year in the NHL this makes much more sense than to sign Brunner.
You're missing the point...it's not about Alfie's fit on the Red Wings and the future, it's about their opinions of "who's better per 60 minutes" and age, and 7 points being somehow better than 26 because "projections, bro." It doesn't matter that the players aren't comparable at all. It just matters that Alfie is old, and Iginla is better and he should've been signed even if he didn't want to play in Detroit; and Tatar and Nyquist are better even though Alfie isn't taking their spot. Plus, Brunner...

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07-11-2013, 10:18 PM
  #78
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Yeah I know. But I'm just not sure the Alfredsson signing is being evaluated in the proper light. I think overall, Brunner is the better long term choice (obviously) and he would also be cheaper in the short term. But what if Brunner isn't in the Wings plans long term regardless? I see him as a very nice complimentary player, but we have players coming up who project to be better than him. I wonder if Brunner were 24 if he would have been let go over 500k or whatever it'll end up being.

I still believe in the short term that Alfredsson and his intangibles will be a greater value. Whether or not it's ******** or not, I think Alfredsson is a guy a team can rally around. I don't know if this is our 2008 all over again with Dallas Drake after a good showing against the Ducks in 2007. But I'm just guessing one possibility is that Brunner at a certain price works in the short term, but his roster spot is saved for someone else. Who that is, I don't know.
I think Brunner remains the better asset, whether he's in the long term plans or not. A) because you're not putting half his salary on the credit card and borrowing from next year's cap, b) because if in two years, you're going with Jurco or whoever, you can trade a 30-year old 25-goal guy for an asset.

As for intangibles -- veteran isn't always an intangible.
People talk about Dallas Drake, but what about Darren Helm? Darren Helm meant more to the Wings than Dallas Drake.

Brunner is the kind of Slava Kozlov type -- who'd go quiet for a few weeks and then suddenly score a giant goal or get red hot. I'd gladly pay 3M or so on a normal-term contract for that.

I just think this signing is more about name value than on-ice value. We gave up more offense than we gained. We got older. We paid more to do it.

Maybe Holland believes there's some Swedish elixir that's going to be at play here.

But I think this was more about making splashy news (which has its own benefit) than quality hockey

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07-11-2013, 10:20 PM
  #79
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We're going to have to see about that offense. Brunner scored the majority of his points early, let's see what happens when Alfredsson has a real center all season.

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07-11-2013, 10:27 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
I just think this signing is more about name value than on-ice value. We gave up more offense than we gained. We got older. We paid more to do it.

Maybe Holland believes there's some Swedish elixir that's going to be at play here.

But I think this was more about making splashy news (which has its own benefit) than quality hockey
Having alfie might make young players more enthusiastic to play for the wings, probably moreso than another random young guy theyd be directly competing with

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07-11-2013, 10:49 PM
  #81
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Other; Tomas Sandstrom.

as for Weiss, i'm gunna go with robert lang stat wise, but much better all around play.

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07-11-2013, 11:12 PM
  #82
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Let's just hope that it doesn't resemble Uwe Krupp.

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07-12-2013, 12:21 AM
  #83
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Mikael Samuelsson

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07-12-2013, 12:27 AM
  #84
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Alfredsson will resemble Alfredsson, imo.

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07-12-2013, 01:29 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Considering these guys were linemates -- it's pretty clear which guy drove the bus and which guy paid the fare
Just stop already.

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07-12-2013, 01:39 PM
  #86
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We're going to have to see about that offense. Brunner scored the majority of his points early, let's see what happens when Alfredsson has a real center all season.
A real center like Weiss? Who is worse than Turris at this point?

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07-12-2013, 01:43 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by stu the grim reaper View Post
Having alfie might make young players more enthusiastic to play for the wings, probably moreso than another random young guy theyd be directly competing with
It might.
Or maybe the kids get sick of seeing all the prime time go to some undeserving old fart

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07-12-2013, 01:46 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
A real center like Weiss? Who is worse than Turris at this point?
Turris? Whos' never score more than 30pts in a season or more than 12 goals?

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07-12-2013, 01:55 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Turris? Whos' never score more than 30pts in a season or more than 12 goals?
Yea.
He is the same age as Nyquist. If he were drafted by the Red Wings, he would still be struggling to have a shot as a regular on the team. If Holland could get Turris for Weiss he wouldn't hesitate.

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07-12-2013, 01:56 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Johnz96 View Post
Yea.
He is the same age as Nyquist. If he were drafted by the Red Wings, he would still be struggling to have a shot as a regular in the team. If Holland could get Turris for Weiss he wouldn't hesitate.
So, if he would struggle to have a shot on this team why exactly would Holland trade someone who won't struggle to have a shot on this team for him?

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07-12-2013, 02:04 PM
  #91
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So, if he would struggle to have a shot on this team why exactly would Holland trade someone who won't struggle to have a shot on this team for him?
He would struggle to have a shot on the Wings if he were drafted by them because the Wings' work in their prospects slowly. The Wings would have had a much better chance beating the Hawks with Tatar on Datsyuk's wing than Abby. Because Turris has NHL experience and led a good team to the playoffs if we acquired him he would be penciled in as the 2nd line center.
Unless he gets injured, he will have a breakout year next year.


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07-12-2013, 02:05 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Johnz96 View Post
He would struggle to have a shot on the Wings if he were drafted by them because the Wings' work in their prospects slowly. The Wings would have had a much better chance beating with Tatar on Datsyuk's wing than Abby. Because Turris has NHL experience and led a good team to the playoffs if we acquired him he would be penciled in as the 2nd line center.
Unless he gets injured, he will have a breakout year next year.
I know Turris is good, but it's kinda hard to say he's better than Weiss right now when he hasn't proven it. Could he prove it next season? Sure.

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07-12-2013, 02:10 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Turris? Whos' never score more than 30pts in a season or more than 12 goals?


but what my argument presupposes is...maybe he will be?

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07-12-2013, 02:12 PM
  #94
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I know Turris is good, but it's kinda hard to say he's better than Weiss right now when he hasn't proven it. Could he prove it next season? Sure.
I think he proved last year that he was comparable. Turris is still developing and getting better. With his injuries Weiss may be declining although he might learn a thing or 2 from Datsyuk and could also improve but it is probably only a matter of time that Turris will be regarded as a better player.

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07-12-2013, 02:14 PM
  #95
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I think he proved last year that he was comparable. Turris is still developing and getting better. With his injuries Weiss may be declining although he might learn a thing or 2 from Datsyuk and could also improve but it is probably only a matter of time that Turris will be regarded as a better player.
Maybe. Prospects/young players are almost always thought of to be better than guys who are 28+. The truth of the matter is that there's very few really, really good players in the league. I'd be surprised if Turris became a consistent 70+ point player.

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07-12-2013, 02:15 PM
  #96
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I know Turris is good, but it's kinda hard to say he's better than Weiss right now when he hasn't proven it. Could he prove it next season? Sure.
Weiss sure does seem to be getting a free pass for 4 points in 17 games

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07-12-2013, 02:18 PM
  #97
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Weiss sure does seem to be getting a free pass for 4 points in 17 games
It was so abnormal and the fact that he was injured tends to do that. Did you expect him to produce more with a wrist that needed surgery? Here's another thing, if Weiss didn't get injured and produced at his career average clip, does he sign for what he did?

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07-12-2013, 02:23 PM
  #98
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Maybe. Prospects/young players are almost always thought of to be better than guys who are 28+. The truth of the matter is that there's very few really, really good players in the league. I'd be surprised if Turris became a consistent 70+ point player.
And I would be pleasantly surprised if Weiss will be a consistent 60+ point scorer for the next 5 years.

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07-12-2013, 02:25 PM
  #99
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And I would be pleasantly surprised if Weiss will be a consistent 60+ point scorer for the next 5 years.
Well, that's not my expectation of him. Consistent 60+ point scorers on the open market don't go for 4.9/season.

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07-12-2013, 02:43 PM
  #100
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It was so abnormal and the fact that he was injured tends to do that. Did you expect him to produce more with a wrist that needed surgery? Here's another thing, if Weiss didn't get injured and produced at his career average clip, does he sign for what he did?
What's his career average? 20 goals, 50 points?

Once again, those are pretty week numbers for a guy playing #1 center with tons of PP time -- in the prime of his career.

It just seems like that now that we have Weiss -- we're making lots of excuses... especially in Flip vs Weiss mode
Flip beats Weiss last year, even though Flip sucked -- well that's because Weiss was hurt (Flip detractors don't mention Flip was hurt)
Flip beats Weiss the year before -- but that doesn't count, because Flip played with Zetterberg or he wasn't a second.
Brunner outproduced Alfredsson last year, even though Alfie played top line all year and first unit PP all year. But poor Alfie had to play with Turris.

If you argue straight points -- there's an excuse.
If you argue points per 60 minutes, there's an excuse

People then go to the -- well he played on a crappy team argument -- but can't name a single player who left a crappy team where he got first line minutes, and then went to Detroit and produced more points from 2nd line.

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