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Has your opinion of Regier changed?

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Old
07-08-2013, 11:03 AM
  #26
hizzoner
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I am on the fence with Darcy. He has made some bold moves--the Kassian trade, the huge contract to Myers, the free agency pickups of Erhoff and Leino come to mind. A more cautious approach would have saved us a few bucks. Still Hodgson and Erhoff have been good pickups and the jury is out on Myers. Leino was overpaid just as all the FAs this year but he may still be serviceable. The draft picks in the last few years while still unproven are universally regarded as excellent. That said the team has been awful. If he can get anything halfway decent for Miller and Vanek (assuming they will not resign) I will be ecstatic. I did not expect other GMs to trade away huge assets for one year contracts before they saw what they got in the draft and in free agency. You do not shovel out good prospects and big bucks until you see what you get without giving anything up. So now he is a seller--forced sales bring fire sale prices no matter how great the salesman is. Everyone knows what is up. Many teams would like Vanek and Miller but know they are obtainable for free next year---so unless this is a piece to win a Cup/keep their STH happy I do not expect value for value. How close Darcy comes will determine how I rate him.

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07-08-2013, 11:12 AM
  #27
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My opinion's stayed the same. He drafts very well, and gets the most value for his trades. He's very intelligent, and knows what's going on in the league. He's very upfront about what's going on with players, and either subtlely or not so subtlely tells the media what's going on with the team, and has that sense of transparency I like.

My biggest problem with him is the trades he doesn't make (which, I'll be honest, since I'm no GM this is kind of a stupid thing to not like a guy for), and the fact that after 16 years he hasn't once built a winner (yes, the 99-00 team and 05-06 teams were great, but they still didn't win it all). It's those two reasons only that I'm not comfortable with him being at the helm for this rebuild. I'm rooting for him though.

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07-08-2013, 11:22 AM
  #28
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No.

I don't trust him to not half ass a rebuild and I wouldn't have any confidence in him to make the correct moves to transition the team out of a rebuild phase.
It seems like most are only okay with him because of the prospect pool he has built, but I'm not even a huge fan of it and still find it to be average, despite the recognizable names that garner praise.

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07-08-2013, 11:58 AM
  #29
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Rebuilding a team is something he's done before quite successfully. So in that regard I have faith in him.

Can he make the moves needed to augment a contending team once its put together is a question I have though.

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07-08-2013, 12:05 PM
  #30
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I think much of the criticism Regier gets is simply misplaced. Regier has been the arm of ownership, and managed the team according to it's policies, and under both internal constraints and external (such as FAs preferring other cities). These issues have been discussed to the hilt in other topics and I just don't have the energy to explain them again. If people can't/won't understand those issues I'm not about to bother with it.

What he's been doing since Pegula took over has been impressive, and there just hasn't been enough time to see the results on a job that isn't even complete yet. Leino/Ehrhoff/Regehr were efforts to see what could immediately be done with the current roster. It obviously didn't work or wasn't enough but it provided evidence of how to proceed next. Imagine though, if Regier did land the big UFA of the day (Richards) and how that would be playing out now. Point is, for those that criticize Regier for not signing big names, that game is a loser. Due to guaranteed contracts, most UFAs simply put their feet up after their big deal and don't (maybe never) produce up to par with their new salary. For an unpopular UFA destination like Buffalo, a winner will have to be mostly home grown or traded for. Draft picks is the source of that, either by keeping and developing them or trading them for a big name piece. Hence Regier's "currency of the day" comment a few months back.

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07-08-2013, 12:07 PM
  #31
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I wanted Regier out the moment Pegula took over. Since then, though, he has done an awesome job. There's been a bump or two, but when you look at it relative to a lot of other GMs out there, it could be a LOT worse. His drafting has been solid and his trades have been getting blood from a stone.
I'm happy with him as our GM.

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07-08-2013, 12:24 PM
  #32
joshjull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
I think much of the criticism Regier gets is simply misplaced. Regier has been the arm of ownership, and managed the team according to it's policies, and under both internal constraints and external (such as FAs preferring other cities). These issues have been discussed to the hilt in other topics and I just don't have the energy to explain them again. If people can't/won't understand those issues I'm not about to bother with it.

What he's been doing since Pegula took over has been impressive, and there just hasn't been enough time to see the results on a job that isn't even complete yet. Leino/Ehrhoff/Regehr were efforts to see what could immediately be done with the current roster. It obviously didn't work or wasn't enough but it provided evidence of how to proceed next. Imagine though, if Regier did land the big UFA of the day (Richards) and how that would be playing out now. Point is, for those that criticize Regier for not signing big names, that game is a loser. Due to guaranteed contracts, most UFAs simply put their feet up after their big deal and don't (maybe never) produce up to par with their new salary. For an unpopular UFA destination like Buffalo, a winner will have to be mostly home grown or traded for. Draft picks is the source of that, either by keeping and developing them or trading them for a big name piece. Hence Regier's "currency of the day" comment a few months back.
Well said.

To add to that is something I've thought about for a few years. The absolute devastation the previous owners contract policies had on this organization as well as the primary focus on making money. It meant losing a lot of players for nothing and never being able to step back like we are now to rebuild the organization if it was needed. The focus was always do enough to be in the mix to make the playoffs.


Obviously the most well known situation is the losses of the co-captains. But if you think about the amount of talent that left here for basically nothing, it was crippling the last 5 years of so. Not only did we lose the player but got nothing to replenish the system when they left. So many wasted assets as well as holes created in the organziations depth chart. Compare that with what Regier has been able to do under the current ownership and the returns he's gotten for players.

We lost Mckee, Grier, Dumont, Drury, Briere, Connolly, Tallinder, Lydman to name a few for nothing. Under this current owner those players would have either been re-signed or moved for a nice return. Things that keep a winning franchise going for many more years.

While I'm very grateful for Golisano saving the franchise, its still infuriating the damage done by their policies. We had a winning team and organizational depth coming out of the lockout that could have been used to maintain a successful team for years. But our penny-wise pound foolish owners destroyed any chance at that. We are now essentially back to trying to rebuild what we had back then.


Last edited by joshjull: 07-08-2013 at 12:30 PM.
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Old
07-08-2013, 12:34 PM
  #33
couture23
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With our current roster, and Florida's current roster - do you think we finish below them this upcoming season?

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07-08-2013, 12:37 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Rebuilding a team is something he's done before quite successfully. So in that regard I have faith in him.

Can he make the moves needed to augment a contending team once its put together is a question I have though.
My thoughts exactly. I've been a pretty staunch DR supporter throughout, only really waivering once or twice on him. Specifically, the Drury-Briere situation, I think we should have at least gone all in on ONE of them, and Vanek's tender from Edmonton. I think I'm one of a handful of individuals who feels he should have let Vanek go and taken the compensation. I'd have been really interested in seeing what he could have done w/ those picks. Nevertheless, Darcy's very good at ushering in good young talent, he just struggles to communicate a bigger picture of how it's assembled (which granted, isn't entirely his job).

I think Darcy is potentially a top 5 GM in this league. I'm very excited about the pool of prospects he's assembled recently, how he's committed to the rebuild and revitalized the farm. This time around, he's got deep pockets and a decade's more worth of wisdom on his side. Been here for 16 years, but personally, I feel the next two-three are going to define his legacy.

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07-08-2013, 12:41 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
With our current roster, and Florida's current roster - do you think we finish below them this upcoming season?
Two questions to play out over the season:

- Do the Panthers stay healthy this year? The were wracked with injuries last year, particularly on the blueline.
- Is Miller on the Sabres to start the year?

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07-08-2013, 12:44 PM
  #36
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There are so many worse GM's out there, I'm fine with him.

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07-08-2013, 12:50 PM
  #37
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There are so many worse GM's out there, I'm fine with him.
Like Nonis

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07-08-2013, 12:53 PM
  #38
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Like Nonis
Feaster is usually the first that pops into my head. But Nonis definitely made some questionable moves since the season ended.

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07-08-2013, 01:40 PM
  #39
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I think he's a joke of a GM. Always have. I've been praying for him to be fired since he got such crappy returns for Hasek and Peca. I still want him fired. He's presided over so many catastrophes over his tenure here I have trouble understanding how anyone can possibly defend him. The only time he's been able to make it to the finals was with a team built by the previous GM. Since then he's been able to miss the playoffs more often than he's made them in a league where over half of teams make the playoffs each season.

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07-08-2013, 02:12 PM
  #40
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There are so many worse GM's out there, I'm fine with him.
There are better too.

And with Pegulas financial commitment we could pay the best GM the most money and the best GM would probably take the job because he would have a great facility, a solid fan base and no restrictions other than those imposed by the NHL.

Basically, we can and should be doing better.

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07-08-2013, 03:00 PM
  #41
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Not at all...D'arse has been here long enough...He's had his chance, and the train has run it's course....I want him gone ASAP....

I don't care that he "didn't goof up" in FA so far this year.....Or that he had a "good draft"....

Remember the old saying "even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while"...

He's screwed up more than enough for me, and has caused us to miss the playoffs more than enough....

Hopefully he gets canned within a year.

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07-08-2013, 03:29 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post

We lost Mckee, Grier, Dumont, Drury, Briere, Connolly, Tallinder, Lydman to name a few for nothing. Under this current owner those players would have either been re-signed or moved for a nice return. Things that keep a winning franchise going for many more years.

While I'm very grateful for Golisano saving the franchise, its still infuriating the damage done by their policies. We had a winning team and organizational depth coming out of the lockout that could have been used to maintain a successful team for years. But our penny-wise pound foolish owners destroyed any chance at that. We are now essentially back to trying to rebuild what we had back then.

There were a few other rental players that walked.

I wonder how things would have changed if Pegs came around in 2003 to buy the team.

Golisano gutted the scouting department. Regier's hands were tied in player transactions.

Look at their draft history (rounds 1-3 for top 9F/top 6D/SG)

2002-2004 6 players
2005-2007 1.5 players (Weber, half point for Enroth, and nothing yet for Tropp)
2008-2010 6 players
2011-2013 drafted 12 players in rounds 1-3,

they have 5 picks now in 2014, 4 for 2015. Moving Vanek, Miller, and Stafford likely gives them at least 3 picks in rounds 1-3. Ott and Ehrhoff could add at least 1 each to that total if they were moved.

Why the drop in 2005-2007? Scouting cut backs? Regier made mistakes?

Those players would be 24-26 now...thus in their prime.

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Old
07-08-2013, 03:38 PM
  #43
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Nope he's still a GM who brings in zero results but enjoys concrete job security.

I'm not as enamored with the prospects as a lot of people, there are practically zero high end prospects outside of Grigorenko and possibly Armia. The Sabres always seem to have a "top 5 prospect core" yet do nothing year after year. And before everyone plans a parade with our best prospects in the league I seem to remember a time in the late 90s when the Sabres were ranked #1 for prospects and how Mika Noronen was voted best prospect in the league. We supposedly had 3 "Vezina caliber goalies" and one turned out to be a complete bust, the other is now a career backup and the third , albeit a very good goalie is now being ran out of Buffalo. So no, we don't have a top group of prospects. We have no top end LW prospect to replace Vanek, hell we don't have any prospect to replace Vanek. Thomas Vanek is arguably the greatest goal scorer in franchise history and he doesn't even want to be here because of this half assed rebuild.

Oh yeah you think the players got the memo that we have to intentionally tank to get a top 5 pick? Because I would bet that they will play outside their talent and land in the 7-14 spot for a pick, not top 5. Good luck trying to get an elite FA in 2014, because I am sure they would love to play for a team that intentionally tries to be bad.
We do not "always seem to have a top 5 prospect core"...

There's no way to label this as a "half-assed rebuild" at this point. What about it is half-assed? Ironically, you're the one who doesn't think it's important to get a high draft pick... so you're the one who would half-ass it, nevermind that you're also complaining we lack high-end prospects. If Vanek leaves it's because he wants to test the market and/or because we are rebuilding period, not because he thinks we are "half-assed rebuilding".

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07-08-2013, 03:47 PM
  #44
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We do not "always seem to have a top 5 prospect core"...

There's no way to label this as a "half-assed rebuild" at this point. What about it is half-assed? Ironically, you're the one who doesn't think it's important to get a high draft pick... so you're the one who would half-ass it, nevermind that you're also complaining we lack high-end prospects. If Vanek leaves it's because he wants to test the market and/or because we are rebuilding period, not because he thinks we are "half-assed rebuilding".
To me, it's more of a half-hearted tank job as long as Miller & Vanek are on the roster.

Regier has stated that they need elite talent and you need to draft in the top 3 to 5 picks to get that talent.

If Miller and Vanek are on the roster until the trade deadline, it's unlikely that the team will be bad enough to pick top 3 in 2014.

But, we shall see....

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07-08-2013, 04:07 PM
  #45
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To me, it's more of a half-hearted tank job as long as Miller & Vanek are on the roster.

Regier has stated that they need elite talent and you need to draft in the top 3 to 5 picks to get that talent.

If Miller and Vanek are on the roster until the trade deadline, it's unlikely that the team will be bad enough to pick top 3 in 2014.

But, we shall see....
I don't disagree but for now I am still under the assumption they won't be back. Layne must have another reason he doesn't think we should tank for a top 3 pick.

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07-08-2013, 04:10 PM
  #46
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He's fine. More people would just like to see more moves because they are bored and want something to talk about.

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07-08-2013, 04:21 PM
  #47
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being able to build a winner is so subjective, winning a Stanley Cup has so much luck involved it's not even funny. Look at Chicago and Boston this year, Boston almost lost first round and Chicago almost lost against Detroit. I am not going to blame him for not winning a cup.

what I am going to blame him for is not building a team that can sustain expectations as a contender year in year out, he hasn't done that. Hopefully he figures it out this time and chooses the right players to build around.

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07-08-2013, 04:54 PM
  #48
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To the answer the question in short, yes.

My beef with Darcy before these past two years is why he kept Lindy even though he kept on acquiring players that didn't fit Ruff's system(cerebral, sound positioning, defense first, conservative). Since 08 he's drafted Myers(bad fit), Ennis(bad fit), Kassian(bad fit), Pysyk(good fit), Armia(bad fit), Grigorenko(bad fit) and Girgenson(good fit). Then when Pegula buys the team, he gives the biggest contracts to Ehrhoff, Myers and Leino. It was confusing why Ruff was still here. Now, we have the right coach for our young team. We are drafting players that are forming a blue-collar identity. And he's getting good value out of his trades still. The only possible misstep I see is not trading Miller before or during the draft but that remains to be seen.

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07-08-2013, 05:01 PM
  #49
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There is a certain type of fan that misguidedly can only see outcomes, to the exclusion of context and the very real factor of chance when it comes to prognostication. The only thing that a GM's decisions can ever do are increase the chances that his team is successful. Therefore the only criteria by which a GM can be judged is based on whether or not his decisions make sense given the information available at the time they were made, compared to whichever alternative courses of action were possible.

Since Pegula took over, when the team was on fire, he added pieces. When it struggled, he fired the coach and traded nearly half the team. These decisions make sense. A lot of sense.

Still, the no-context crowd will continue to beat the 15-years drum. After next season, they will gleefully increase the tally to 16, as if a cup this coming season is a reasonable expectation, the non-achievement of which constitutes yet more meaningful evidence that Regier is unfit!

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07-08-2013, 06:03 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Rebuilding a team is something he's done before quite successfully. So in that regard I have faith in him.

Can he make the moves needed to augment a contending team once its put together is a question I have though.
(to the bolded) This is a half truth.
In point of fact, if not for the Lockout and subsequent rules that were changed/enacted, his small team would have not been as successful.
Did he foresee the rule changes? Some, but not all I'm sure and I'm also well aware of just how surprised he was at the success of his team. Which leads me to point 2 on this statement.....
His draft picks were not, in point of fact, successful at a rebuild, it was Drury and Briere, 2 pieces that were brought in via trade that made it all happen, as can clearly be seen by the true contender they were from 08 up until this past season. In that case, once D and B were removed from the equation, the draft picks Regier had assembled fell flat on their faces as far as Cup contention goes.

Which brings me to point 3, a friend of mine once asked me to look around the NHL at other GM's, and take a look at why Regier has 16 years here. He specifically pointed out his entrance on the GM stage and the Hasek situation, then, flipped over to the bankruptcy.
There is a reason Regier is still here, and I submit to you, it has nothing to do with his ability to draft hockey talent.

I leave you with this, Grigo, his mother works for the Census Bureau in Russia, there are real questions to his age. If he is indeed older than stated, he was a man among 16 to 18 year olds, he won't amount to anything more than a 2nd line center most likely.
2 hulking d men in this draft, not a stellar amount of confidence in what's in the pipeline? Why is that I wonder?
Armia has second line talent written all over him.

Don't get me wrong, these secondary or, complementary pieces in the forward ranks are necessary, but in the end, where is the elite talent and why has it taken Regier so long to realize his shortcomings on the roster?

Don't expect any significant return for Miller, and the longer he waits on Vanek, the less he's worth as well.

Remember, there are more questions than these, such as why he's never risked a significant trade in the past 2 years to attempt to bring in elite scoring talent that is consistent, surely he's known all along the consistency problem with this team on both the compete and finish levels for years and yet hasn't addressed it?

Suffering for the Sabres and their fan base? You bet, and it won't be for 2 or 3 seasons, prepare as fans to feel the pain for 4 or 5 years before we "may", and I stress may be prepared to step up and compete or contend.

That falls on 1 mans shoulders, the General Manager of the Buffalo Sabres, Darcy Regier....................

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