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Old
07-17-2013, 02:50 PM
  #126
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Not with this coach, but as a general rule of course he is.
no, he really isn't. Pascal Dupuis is currently a much better hockey player than Jaromir Jagr. Jussi Jokinen is also a better hockey player. James Neal, Chris Kunitz and Beau Bennett too. Jagr would be an upgrade over D'Agostini, Glass or Adams. Every other wing we have is better than the current version of Jagr regardless of price tag.

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07-17-2013, 03:06 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
no, he really isn't. Pascal Dupuis is currently a much better hockey player than Jaromir Jagr. Jussi Jokinen is also a better hockey player. James Neal, Chris Kunitz and Beau Bennett too. Jagr would be an upgrade over D'Agostini, Glass or Adams. Every other wing we have is better than the current version of Jagr regardless of price tag.
That's just your opinion. As a matter of fact, Jagr is better than all of those players...according to Jagr


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07-17-2013, 03:16 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
you know the buyout period is over, right? And I think there's a minimum salary for compliance buyouts .
What are you referring to? Why would there be any limitations during the summer on when a GM could use the buyout? I may have missed some part of the rule, but if that's true, it's Full Rossi. Teams should be allowed to buyout whoever they want (within the number allotted) all summer long / until the fall roster is set. Example: why would they allow teams to go 10% over the cap during the summer, but not allow teams to buy guys out to get under the cap all summer?

Are you sure about this?

As for minimum salaries there have been guys bought out by other teams who were not very expensive. I don't know the numbers off hand but I remember thinking that at the time. It's not for expensive players only. At 1M+ I suspect Glass qualifies. But yah, if he doesn't or if the buyout thing is blocked, trade him for a few dozen boxes of Jimmy Dean Sausage Biscuits.

Otherwise my suggested roster moves stand as a beacon of hope for the realistic-minded Pens fan.

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07-17-2013, 03:22 PM
  #129
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I am 100% sure there was a deadline for buyouts. At least compliance buyouts. The day before free agency opened up. 100% sure about that one. Its so players don't get screwed over by being bought out after other teams have already signed their players. Its not fully rossi, it makes perfect sense. At least from the player's side.

I am less sure about the salary minimum. I read that from someone on here.

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07-17-2013, 03:34 PM
  #130
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Compliance buyouts are definitely over (until next summer). Not sure about the regular waive-a-player-for-the-purpose-of-buying-him-out situation, though.

Tanner Glass ain't going anywhere, unfortunately, so the point is moot.



And agree to disagree on Jagr vs. Dupuis. To each his/her own. What works for Crosby (Dupuis) may not work as well for Giroux (or any other highly skilled center).

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07-17-2013, 03:41 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I am 100% sure there was a deadline for buyouts. At least compliance buyouts. The day before free agency opened up. 100% sure about that one. Its so players don't get screwed over by being bought out after other teams have already signed their players. Its not fully rossi, it makes perfect sense. At least from the player's side.
Not following you... give me an example of how someone would get screwed over; use one of our FA / signed players as an example.

I'm obviously missing something here.

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07-17-2013, 03:52 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Not following you... give me an example of how someone would get screwed over; use one of our FA / signed players as an example.

I'm obviously missing something here.
Its late August. Teams have signed most of their team. We buy out Glass. Very few teams are still looking for players at that point and he goes unsigned.

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07-17-2013, 04:02 PM
  #133
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Why the eff is Glass still on this team?

I hope it's not because of Shero's ego. Buying him out would basically admit you made a bone headed decision.

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07-17-2013, 05:06 PM
  #134
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I thought Jagr looked really good when I watched him play this year. He looked much better than Iginla in the playoffs imo, he just wasn't getting any puck luck and he doesn't shoot that much any more for some reason. He's more of a playmaker, now.

His vision is still absolutely ridiculous. He makes passes that nobody on our team aside from Malkin and Crosby can.

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07-17-2013, 09:29 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Pancakes View Post
I thought Jagr looked really good when I watched him play this year. He looked much better than Iginla in the playoffs imo, he just wasn't getting any puck luck and he doesn't shoot that much any more for some reason. He's more of a playmaker, now.

His vision is still absolutely ridiculous. He makes passes that nobody on our team aside from Malkin and Crosby can.
Jagr played like hot garbage this postseason. Minus a period or two of solid play.

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07-23-2013, 06:24 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Shelly Anderson ‏@pgshelly 32m
Beau Bennett said LW is fine, that he "started to mesh" on line with Malkin and Neal before late-season trades altered #Penguins lineup.
https://twitter.com/pgshelly/status/359807960643407874

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07-23-2013, 07:19 PM
  #137
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That's his spot on this team the next few years, so he might as well start the season out there anyway.

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07-23-2013, 07:27 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Tasty Biscuits View Post
That's his spot on this team the next few years, so he might as well start the season out there anyway.
There were some tweets earlier in the summer saying the team wanted Beau at RW. Which is why he's set to start next season with Sutter.

If that allows us to break up KCD sooner than later, Im all for it.

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Old
07-23-2013, 10:03 PM
  #139
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True. But I mean.... are we really expecting that you happen.

Ever?

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07-23-2013, 10:21 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Tasty Biscuits View Post
True. But I mean.... are we really expecting that you happen.

Ever?
I think Beau's play will force DB's hand.

Dupes/Sid/Beau
Kunitz/Malkin/Neal

I'd have no problem with that.

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07-23-2013, 10:29 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Tasty Biscuits View Post
True. But I mean.... are we really expecting that you happen.

Ever?
I actually am. I highly doubt Dupuis will be on the first line for the entirety of that contract, Bylsma or no Bylsma.

Dupuis is able to play with Sid because he's fast and he works hard, but he doesn't have a great shot and he's not a good playmaker. He'll always work hard, but he's 34 and even if he loses just a little bit of speed, that won't be enough.

Plus I don't really think we'll find a better fit for Sid than Beau.

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07-23-2013, 10:32 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I think Beau's play will force DB's hand.

Dupes/Sid/Beau
Kunitz/Malkin/Neal

I'd have no problem with that.
I like this a lot and I hope you're right

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07-24-2013, 03:51 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I think Beau's play will force DB's hand.

Dupes/Sid/Beau
Kunitz/Malkin/Neal

I'd have no problem with that.
Now that would be nice, I agree. I just hope Bylsma will see it the same way one day!

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07-24-2013, 09:06 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Its late August. Teams have signed most of their team. We buy out Glass. Very few teams are still looking for players at that point and he goes unsigned.
I would file that one under "that's life as a professional athlete; perform or get left out." If they actually made a rule for that scenario, it's more NHL stupidity (as I suggested) that will limit a team's ability to manage the cap in a tight year (this year). The total number of guys who get bought out in a summer like this one is likely fewer than 30 players (even though theoretically the max could be 60, as you can use both in the same year if you want to -- the Hawks did that recently)... and most of those guys are borderline players.

So what if they find themselves bought out in August? Still plenty of chance to get training camp invites and prove you're worth a shot. I don't see anything here that "screws the players over". Anymore than waiving a guy in the middle of the season or whatever. It's part of the deal. Furthermore the player is receiving the remainder of their salary on the contract, without playing the games. Again, not close to "being screwed over".

Can someone who knows the CBA details look and see if there's a clause / rule about when compliance buyouts can take place... if there's a summer deadline date for them? Still doesn't sound right to me.


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07-24-2013, 09:10 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I would file that one under "that's life as a professional athlete; perform or get left out." If they actually made a rule for that it's more NHL stupidity (as I suggested). The total number of guys likely to get bought out in a summer like this one is well under 30 players (even though theoretically the max could be 60 I think as you can use both in the same year if you want to -- the Hawks did that recently)... and most of those guys are borderline players.

So what if they find themselves bought out in August? Still plenty of chance to get training camp invites and prove you're worth a shot. I don't see anything here that "screws the players over". Anymore than waiving a guy in the middle of the season or whatever. It's part of the deal. Furthermore the player is receiving the remainder of their salary on the contract, without playing the games. Again, not close to "being screwed over".

Can someone who knows the CBA details look and see if there's a "numbered rule" about when compliance buyouts can take place / if there's a summer deadline date for them?
There's no "if" here. There was absolutely a deadline for compliance buyouts. Every single media outlet that covers hockey reported on it. And no, it wasn't just tweeners. It was guys like Lecavelier, Komisarek and Briere too.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=675349

Quote:
The first of these windows opened at 11 p.m. on June 26 and closes at 5 p.m. on July 4.
I don't see it as stupid. Probably because I also work in a field where 99% of the hiring occurs in a 2 month span over the summer. And guess what, there's a rule in place to make sure we don't lose our jobs after that period starts barring extenuating circumstances.


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Old
07-24-2013, 09:14 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
There's no "if" here. There was absolutely a deadline for compliance buyouts. It was noon the day before free agency started. Every single media outlet that covers hockey reported on it. And no, it wasn't just tweeners. It was guys like Lecavelier and Briere too.
I guess I'll have to take your word for it, but I didn't see it mentioned or reported anywhere while i was checking TSN every day, etc.

Still a stupid rule IMO. Buyouts should be able to take place at any time. As long as the player gets their money, there's no issue IMO. They have been fairly compensated with the amount they agreed upon, period. They just received it sooner rather than later. Nothing about getting bought out prevents a player from catching on somewhere else, anymore than getting waived prevents them from doing so. To Wit: Vinny and Briere found teams right away, and if they had been let go today instead of 3 weeks ago or whatever, they'd still find a home right away. And if it were close to camp, they'd still get offers. Other guys could get bought out on those teams in order to make room.

I don't see what the issue is, so long as the players are fully compensated.

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07-24-2013, 09:18 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I guess I'll have to take your word for it, but I didn't see it mentioned or reported anywhere while i was checking TSN every day, etc.

Still a stupid rule IMO. Buyouts should be able to take place at any time. As long as the player gets their money, there's no issue IMO. They have been fairly compensated with the amount they agreed upon, period. They just received it sooner rather than later. Nothing about getting bought out prevents a player from catching on somewhere else, anymore than getting waived prevents them from doing so. To Wit: Vinny and Briere found teams right away, and if they had been let go today instead of 3 weeks ago or whatever, they'd still find a home right away. And if it were close to camp, they'd still get offers. Other guys could get bought out on those teams in order to make room.

I don't see what the issue is, so long as the players are fully compensated.
I edited my post

As for being fair, I completely disagree. This is more than just current money. This is what these people do. If Tanner Glass takes a year off because he missed the free agency period this year, how much does that hurt his chances of getting a job next year? Ask Tim Thomas what a year off can do to your marketability. If Lecavelier got bought out today, do you think he gets paid as much? I say no chance because the number of teams looking to sign him would be a lot lower thus less bidding. Not to mention less choices of who he can work for.

Even from a team's perspective, do you want to be the team that overpays Grabovsky the day before Lecavelier gets bought out?

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07-24-2013, 09:32 AM
  #148
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I edited my post

As for being fair, I completely disagree. This is more than just current money. This is what these people do. If Tanner Glass takes a year off because he missed the free agency period this year, how much does that hurt his chances of getting a job next year? Ask Tim Thomas what a year off can do to your marketability. If Lecavelier got bought out today, do you think he gets paid as much? I say no chance because the number of teams looking to sign him would be a lot lower thus less bidding. Not to mention less choices of who he can work for.

Even from a team's perspective, do you want to be the team that overpays Grabovsky the day before Lecavelier gets bought out?
You seem to be arguing the case that unless all players being bought out can result in a perfect circumstance for them (as far as getting signed to another team), then rules must be put in place to protect the minority of cases where a guy might get bought out and have a hard time catching on somewhere.

Tim Thomas is 40 years old and a nutjob, that's why he's not catching on anywhere.

Glass: he's a borderline NHLer. So what is wrong with the team saying "we'd hoped to keep you but looking at the roster mid-August we can't afford to, so we're going to pay you the full amount we owe and you become a free agent." From that point as you say, teams signing him will likely get a discount, so I don't see what the problem is.

Player gets all the money from the prior contract without playing it out, plus a new contract (albeit cheaper), old team clears space, new team gets an upgrade at some position for cheap. How is that bad?

Sure some guys might not get signed until two months into the season or whatever (when there's an injury on a team let's say) but I hardly consider that to be a hardship. Remember, as far as livelihood goes, bought out players are likely to earn MORE money in the same period of time because they're getting an extra contract (any contract) on top of what they would've been earning prior. Even Tanner Glass for chrissakes... he would catch on somewhere, maybe at 600K or whatever but that's still the Penguins contract + 600K. He hasn't lost anything.

Any player that totally misses out on a full season, is probably not hacking it at the NHL level any longer.

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07-24-2013, 09:35 AM
  #149
Ogrezilla
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well, the CBA agrees with me. so


http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=675349

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The first of these windows opened at 11 p.m. on June 26 and closes at 5 p.m. on July 4.

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07-24-2013, 09:36 AM
  #150
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well, the CBA agrees with me. so
I'm not disputing the rule exists at this point (hard to believe thought it may be), only that it's a necessary rule. I think its downside (hampering teams close to the cap all summer) is bigger than its upside (protecting a handful of players who might miss half a season as a result of getting the boot late in the summer). This is definitely a Donald Fehr rule by the looks of it.

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