HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The problem with David Clarkson’s new contract

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-09-2013, 07:37 AM
  #26
Volcanologist
Used Register
 
Volcanologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Cosmodrome
Country: Germany
Posts: 20,834
vCash: 500
thanks Globe and Mail, I wouldn't have realized the incredibly obvious problems with Clarkson's contract on my own.

Volcanologist is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 07:38 AM
  #27
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 58,187
vCash: 500
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle13067766/

Quote:
“I’m not worried about six or seven right now,” Nonis said of the term of the deal. “I’m worried about one. And Year 1, I know we’re going to have a very good player. I believe that he’s got a lot of good years left in him.
We all know this.

Nonis has to keep his job and it is about now for him. Just ask JFj.

Players do defy the odds, and as Leafs' fan we're hoping Clarkson does. Yes, we understand that is unlikely, but hope is what we do.

__________________
http://kuklaskorner.com/index.php/ps...e_corsi_issues

Desjardins estimates that about 40% of the game is captured by Corsi analysis.
ULF_55 is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 07:39 AM
  #28
thewave
Registered User
 
thewave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,717
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisy Joy View Post
lol exactly

and if we didn't

Someone signs somewhere else July 1st
Headline on July 2nd
"Leafs can't land anyone"

sometimes the media needs to shut up.
The reason they don't is because it's like playing for a father that questions everything you do. If you are not playing or in a slump you have to deal friends ribbing you parents everyone giving you the business.

Some players like that but most probably not. Toronto, there is nowhere to hide and to much pressure to perform.

thewave is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 08:39 AM
  #29
Yosho
Logic
 
Yosho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kitchener, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,510
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transplanted Caper View Post
It was a 7-year contract for a 29-year old who has a career high of 46 points. As the article demonstrates, on the whole the prime for players has dropped considerably in recent years, and for the most part a player like Clarkson is past his prime years. It doesn't mean he'll be terrible, or that he can't be an exception to the rule, but there's ample reason to critique the move and the notion we should hold off on a rationale discussion because he hasn't played a game for us yet is silly.
I don't think anyone disagrees with the article, outright. Seven years is too long.

But it's about what he can bring now, next year, and the year after. The cost of this player was a seven year deal. Something that Nonis (or whoever is sitting in his chair) can worry about then. In the meantime, we have a good player who will bring a dynamic to this team that has been sorely lacking. If Clarkson fails, then the contract fails. Then articles like these are appropriate.

I don't see why people are deeming this acquisition a failure before Clarkson contributes a single second of TOI.

Yosho is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 08:44 AM
  #30
Macman
Registered User
 
Macman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,479
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
I tell ya at 29 oh yeah, he bashes he crashes, wait to 31, 32...out there working hard feeling like train hit you, drinking after the game less drive suddenly the ultra intense guy is done.
Gary Roberts managed to do it well into his late 30s. Not saying Clarkson can, but it's a little soon to write the guy off. There are a lot of similarities between the two, and hopefully Clarkson can go to Roberts for advice/training.

Macman is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 08:52 AM
  #31
Parkdale
Registered User
 
Parkdale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,153
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transplanted Caper View Post
It was a 7-year contract for a 29-year old who has a career high of 46 points. As the article demonstrates, on the whole the prime for players has dropped considerably in recent years, and for the most part a player like Clarkson is past his prime years. It doesn't mean he'll be terrible, or that he can't be an exception to the rule, but there's ample reason to critique the move and the notion we should hold off on a rationale discussion because he hasn't played a game for us yet is silly.
Nonis has stuck his neck out on this and some of his other moves. His reputation has been that of slow and steady, so good on him to go outside of his comfort zone. He makes a point that the players are asked to do the same, so let's see where this ride will take us. Nonis will be accountable for the full term of all the contracts he signs, not just the first few good years or the last few terrible years if that's how it turns out.

Parkdale is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 09:02 AM
  #32
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 62,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle13067766/



We all know this.

Nonis has to keep his job and it is about now for him. Just ask JFj.

Players do defy the odds, and as Leafs' fan we're hoping Clarkson does. Yes, we understand that is unlikely, but hope is what we do.
Because of the style of play of Clarkson there is a potential possibility his body wears out and he retires before that 7 year contract is competed by age 36 for a tough physical player. This may be the only way out beyond a buyout in the later years, without cap hit consequences. Much like his favourite player Wendel, who's body gave out well before his heart did to play NHL hockey.

So if Clarkson gives the Leafs 3-4 strong years it will help job security for Nonis, after that he could very likely become the next Leafs GM problem if Leafs are not on the right track. As Leaf fans we will be around for all 7 years and so we worry more than the current GM does because of how it will effect our favourite team down the road.

While Clarkson should have an immediate impact in the short-term the long term consequences of signing him to 7 years will be felt eventually when you have to pay the piper for job preservation in the present.

__________________
Signature: There is no greater demonstration of Fan patience then to suggest to "Play the Kids " and be willing to accept the consequences of those actions..
Mess is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 09:03 AM
  #33
416Leafer
Registered User
 
416Leafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,833
vCash: 500
Clarkson's deal is also oddly structured. Instead of paying him most of the money up front, so that a potential buyout could happen with ~2 years left on the deal without it being a big deal, the contract peaks at 7M/year in years 4/5, and then years 6/7 are for 4.75M and 3.25M respectively.

Would have been a lot better if they could have given him something that had more salary in those first few years, lowered that peak value of 7M, so that it could have dropped more towards the end.

416Leafer is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 09:04 AM
  #34
arpa76
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto-ish
Country: Canada
Posts: 20
vCash: 500
Can we just move on? Contract is signed. There's nothing that can be done any more...all of these conversations are now useless

arpa76 is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 09:12 AM
  #35
Znith
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macman View Post
Gary Roberts managed to do it well into his late 30s. Not saying Clarkson can, but it's a little soon to write the guy off. There are a lot of similarities between the two, and hopefully Clarkson can go to Roberts for advice/training.

This would be great. Clarkson is a hard worker who is not afraid to try new things so it would be a very good match.

Also wanted to point out that Clarkson has been healthy for his career, missing 2 games in the last 3 years. The only thing he missed significant time for was a broken ankle for taking a Chara slaps hot full on, and we know how hard those are

Guys like Wendell Clarke had recurring back problems and many knee problems.

Znith is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 09:16 AM
  #36
caribouPINE
Registered User
 
caribouPINE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,939
vCash: 356
7 years ago today Italy won the World Cup, beating France.

I'm trying to think back to that Leafs team that year.

Sundin, Mccabe, Kaberle, Tucker, Lindros lol

Yeah, Clarksons not gonna last 7 years. He's 30 next season!

It's a terrible, TERRRRRIBLLLEEEE contract but I like Clarkson and I'm excited to watch him play the next 3-4 years.

caribouPINE is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 09:24 AM
  #37
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 62,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Clarkson's deal is also oddly structured. Instead of paying him most of the money up front, so that a potential buyout could happen with ~2 years left on the deal without it being a big deal, the contract peaks at 7M/year in years 4/5, and then years 6/7 are for 4.75M and 3.25M respectively.

Would have been a lot better if they could have given him something that had more salary in those first few years, lowered that peak value of 7M, so that it could have dropped more towards the end.
Good idea, but the new CBA closed that loop-hole that once existed where you could heavily front load and then have a bunch of throw-away years tag on at the end to artificially lover the cap hit. Then if the player retired or walked away without completing his contract you got out of long term deals..

Now there is a max variance % drop-off allowable per year from one to the next so you will not see contract structured like in the past.

GMs that took advantage of the former loophole old CBA set their teams up better for the future as far as the cap is concerned. We are seeing the effect on the Leafs tight against the cap because the loophole has been sealed.

Mess is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 09:38 AM
  #38
Caroline Says ll
Bismarck
 
Caroline Says ll's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Niagara Falls
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,009
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Caroline Says ll
A positive to look at is that in his six full NHL seasons, there is only one where he missed more than two games with injury.

So far he has been pretty durable for his style of game that impossible to last as injuries are inevitable, so close to being and IR stint away, a buy-out to be.

Caroline Says ll is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 09:45 AM
  #39
Schennanigans
Registered User
 
Schennanigans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Etobicoke, on
Posts: 6,122
vCash: 500
It's a stupid contract to give a 29 year old of this kind of player on the surface. But it's equally stupid to lose out on him if we decided to be one of the teams unwilling to give him the same term other teams were.

Schennanigans is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 09:47 AM
  #40
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 58,187
vCash: 500
If he retires I think the Leafs would be fine.

If he wants to hang on there could be problems.

ULF_55 is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 09:47 AM
  #41
thewave
Registered User
 
thewave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,717
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macman View Post
Gary Roberts managed to do it well into his late 30s. Not saying Clarkson can, but it's a little soon to write the guy off. There are a lot of similarities between the two, and hopefully Clarkson can go to Roberts for advice/training.
Actually Roberts would be a good trainer

thewave is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 09:49 AM
  #42
ponder
Registered User
 
ponder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,935
vCash: 500
It's obviously a pretty bad contract, but hey, it's not our money. Rich teams find ways to get out of bad contracts if they need to, and in the short term Clarkson will make us a better team, so overall I'm fine with the signing.

ponder is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 09:54 AM
  #43
The Legend
Stamkos in 2016
 
The Legend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonleaffan View Post
Amen to that. But I would go a bit further and say let him play one season at least. Jesus where would we have found a 23 year old in the free agent market to sign for 7 years. Give your head a shake Globe and Mail.
So those are the only two options? Either find a 29 year old for seven years or find a 23 year old for seven years?

The Legend is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 09:56 AM
  #44
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 62,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
If he retires I think the Leafs would be fine.

If he wants to hang on there could be problems.
So 4-5 good years as a player (on the cap), followed by early retirement, and then a front office job (off the cap) thereafter in player development to complete his 7 year commitment to the Leafs organization and collect all money owed.

Where is the problem?.

Early CBA talks wanted to place a $$ cap on management, but I don't believe that ever transpired in the final draft.

Mess is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 10:10 AM
  #45
Peasy
apple CORes = SOFT
 
Peasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North Bay
Country: Estonia
Posts: 7,029
vCash: 960
Will this ever end?

Been 9 days and were still going on about it, I dont even feel like visiting the Leafs board atm because everyone is being so negative. As someone said, there was more optimism on this board when the leafs blew a 3 goal lead with 12 mins left in a game 7 and went on to lose.

Peasy is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 10:13 AM
  #46
egd27
#freethebigpicture
 
egd27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,018
vCash: 500
Any chance the Leafs will compete for the Cup in the next 5 years or is that just way too outlandish to even contemplate?

egd27 is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 10:14 AM
  #47
Vexed
Registered User
 
Vexed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Barrie, On
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,883
vCash: 500
Debating to such a deep extent the issues that could happen 5-6yrs down the road, while important to note, is futile to try and base decisions around.

I'm sure you can argue all you want about it but no decisions can ever be made based on eventualities that may or may not occur.

Maybe the only near certainty is that over the next 7yrs, the cap hit will decrease as a % of total cap space. Of course, this is not 100% true or guaranteed but if we must talk about hypothesis, that statement is the only one here that can be backed up by previous data without contradiction.

Another near certainty is that the % of players, regardless of play style, that do not lose a step going into their upper 30's has increased and there is no reason to believe that the trend will reverse.

Vexed is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 10:18 AM
  #48
Vexed
Registered User
 
Vexed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Barrie, On
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,883
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by egd27 View Post
Any chance the Leafs will compete for the Cup in the next 5 years or is that just way too outlandish to even contemplate?
Not outlandish at all considering the parity in the NHL today

Vexed is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 10:19 AM
  #49
rojac
HFBoards Sponsor
 
rojac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Waterloo, ON
Posts: 6,912
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
So 4-5 good years as a player (on the cap), followed by early retirement, and then a front office job (off the cap) thereafter in player development to complete his 7 year commitment to the Leafs organization and collect all money owed.

Where is the problem?.

Early CBA talks wanted to place a $$ cap on management, but I don't believe that ever transpired in the final draft.
I'd have to read the appropriate sections of the CBA closely but this might count as cap circumvention.

rojac is offline  
Old
07-09-2013, 10:20 AM
  #50
Ricky Bobby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,051
vCash: 500
The biggest problem that I have with the Clarkson contract is that he's a winger when we've already got so much invested in the wing between Kessel, Lupul, JVR.

With the Clarkson signing when a big salary center becomes available like a few do every year via trade (Carter, Richards, Seguin) or UFA (Richards, Ribiero, Weiss) there is a good chance we now will need to deal one of JVR or Lupul to fit this player into our salary structure.

I personally would have preferred just moving Grabo over to the wing which is what he played well in the KHL and has always seemed like he'd be a better fit for. Then we could have dealt him next year or even bought him out when an opportunity came up where we really needed the cap space.

Ricky Bobby is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:56 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.