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The Magical Mystery UFA Tour (feat. Jaromir Jagr)

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Old
07-13-2013, 02:39 PM
  #526
faulkingdynamic
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Also worth noting, as I did before, that Ron's already familiar with this area of the country having signed a long-term deal in Atlanta a few seasons before their move. And he has a familiarity level with Kirk, having played for Montreal while he was an assistant there, so if there's any coach in the league right now with a good sense for what he should and shouldn't be asked to do as a player it's Muller.

A bit surprising that JR would be all for adding an NHLPA hardliner into the roster given the reputation this org has with NHLPA reps in the past, but on the other hand we, at least by most indications, weren't among the hardline teams on the NHL side of things this time. The situation has improved enough here and in similar cities like Nashville that many of the hardliners from the last CBA moved to more moderate positions this time around. Could be the case with JR re-Hainsey. Only question is why JR is that interested in bringing in a guy on a one-year deal that is highly likely to bolt after a season for a significant raise if he manages to re-establish his value properly this coming season. I know we have some good players in the pipeline working their way up with the upside to be a top 4 guy (Murphy, Biega, Lowe, Levi) but Murphy's easily the closest and he's not that kind of player. The others are probably at least a couple years off that mark.
JR has made comments in the past about getting players here even for a year is a good thing because guys almost always love it here. Its easier to sign a long term deal with a guy who already knows the situation. IF JR thinks Hainsey could be a cheaper replacement for Joni going forward(2014) it might be worth the gamble for one year to see if both sides are an actual fit. He is dealing with MK in somewhat the same way

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07-13-2013, 04:04 PM
  #527
rocky7
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Originally Posted by Carolinas Identity View Post
I'd be down for Zherdev. Remember how bad Semin was? No way he'd ever fit in right?
it would most likely turn out exactly the same and zherdev would be a heck of alot cheaper on a one year deal. if the rumors are true that he wants to come back you have to think that jr has given it some thought (his agent may very well have made that semin connection). it will be interesting to see how things go with him. it would be great if this guy were to sign a cheap one year trial contract and then work out for the team. i don't usually believe that kind of crap of course but i don't know much about zherdev. i just can't imagine that a guy would come back and not make every effort to disprove his naysayers. he certainly appears to have the skills. semin being here would help i'm sure.


Last edited by rocky7: 07-13-2013 at 05:41 PM.
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07-13-2013, 06:03 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Amaxing Joni Jokel View Post
He's 30, actually, and better years are often behind defensemen his age who play a physical style. The "playing injured" thing has been going for years...if true, it's a fair excuse for his play, but excuses don't help the team. If he's going to be hurt so much that he can't contribute at a level that is expected from his salary, then we should be looking to move him. I also think it's a fair question as to how much all of these injuries have affected him. He was never a great skater, but his mobility is shot now. Is this a long term, Ryan Whitney-problem or is this something that can be improved with time?

I really don't get it. Gleason was getting so much **** this season, even from the casual Grit/Hit 'Em FB crowd, then it comes out that he was playing with a broken foot for a month and now he's some sort of superhero. Fans thought he was mailing it in, it turns out he was hurt and now it's all okay. To me, it doesn't matter why he played like garbage, just that he played like garbage. And let's not act like Gleason's play was any worse than it has been for years now; whether those prior seasons were due to injury, lack of effort or just Gleason playing bad because he's not good at hockey (the latter explanation seems to be the toughest for fans to deal with) doesn't really matter. The same goes for Pitkanen. It doesn't matter if he misses games because he has a low pain threshold or if because he shattered his heel in three places; the relevant factor is that he can't stay on the ice. The bottom line is that right now the Hurricanes have $8.5M for this season tied up two defensemen who have shown little ability to contribute to the team for going on three seasons now; the reasons are irrelevant.

EDIT: That was a horribly written post and I made the same point like eight times. I'm deeply sorry to anyone who read it.
I agree that these two are being paid too much.

But I find all the hating on Gleason to be astonishing. He's a good (although not stellar) defenseman, and hands down the toughest customer on a team that's as soft as a marshmallow, to the point where it embarrasses me to be a fan sometimes. Remember when we had that skating punching bag named Kostopolus? Good lord.

Pitkanen I can see people being disgusted with. He looks lazy a lot, is not physical, and his defensive blunders are numerous. But he plays well more often than not, and is a horse. And will no doubt re-sign with a hometown discount. My wife's personal trainer also works for Joni's wife, and apparently she loves Raleigh and doesn't want to leave.

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Old
07-13-2013, 09:08 PM
  #529
shipwreck
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I thought this was a Jagr thread?

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07-13-2013, 09:29 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by Frank Booth23 View Post
I agree that these two are being paid too much.

But I find all the hating on Gleason to be astonishing. He's a good (although not stellar) defenseman, and hands down the toughest customer on a team that's as soft as a marshmallow, to the point where it embarrasses me to be a fan sometimes. Remember when we had that skating punching bag named Kostopolus? Good lord.

Pitkanen I can see people being disgusted with. He looks lazy a lot, is not physical, and his defensive blunders are numerous. But he plays well more often than not, and is a horse. And will no doubt re-sign with a hometown discount. My wife's personal trainer also works for Joni's wife, and apparently she loves Raleigh and doesn't want to leave.
I like Gleason a lot more than Pitts, but it's not based on skill or ability. I agree hat we lose what little toughness we have if we move Gleason, but I would judge it on what we actually have lining up opening night. We don't have the final picture yet obviously.

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07-14-2013, 04:13 PM
  #531
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For all those saying Gleason is overpaid, who exactly are you comparing him to? You can't use ELC's or RFA players to compare him to because that is not an apples to apples comparison on the contract issue. I see mostly players like Gleason at that pay slot---Hainsey was paid more than Gleason last year by half a million and Bryan Allen was paid half a million less. Gleason is better than Allen and for what the Canes need, Gleason is better than Hainsey. Just because you would like to pay Gleason less doesn't mean that the market would allow you to pay him less.

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07-15-2013, 01:31 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by ONO94 View Post
For all those saying Gleason is overpaid, who exactly are you comparing him to? You can't use ELC's or RFA players to compare him to because that is not an apples to apples comparison on the contract issue. I see mostly players like Gleason at that pay slot---Hainsey was paid more than Gleason last year by half a million and Bryan Allen was paid half a million less. Gleason is better than Allen and for what the Canes need, Gleason is better than Hainsey. Just because you would like to pay Gleason less doesn't mean that the market would allow you to pay him less.
I'm saying this as someone who likes the guy in spite of his inconsistencies and limitations.

If Gleason plays up to the level of the guy we've seen in the past - which is essentially a good but not great #3 d-man, then he is a little overpaid. By like half a million or so. No big deal if plays up to the level he's capable of.

But if he plays next year like he did most of last year, he becomes a buyout candidate. He was outplayed by every regular defenseman on the team last year, except McBain.

Cap hits for players on his level:

Scuderi $3.375m
Jackman 3.166m
Allen 3.5m
Robidas 3.3m

When you look at some of the guys making $4m, you see:

Michalek 4m
Fowler 4m
Giordano 4m
M. Staal 3.8m
Carlson 4m
Hamonic 3.86m


Last edited by Roboturner913: 07-15-2013 at 01:44 AM.
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07-15-2013, 07:16 AM
  #533
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Gleason was worse than Corvo and Sanguinetti?

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Old
07-15-2013, 07:59 AM
  #534
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Yeah, kind of hard to argue that Gleason was worse than Sanguinetti and Corvo.

I guess you could look at it from a glass half full standpoint. With Pitkanen being out most of the season, Gleason was probably the 2nd best defenseman on the team last year behind Faulk. Some would argue Harrison was better, but the quality of competition and % of starts in the defensive zone make that a suspect comparison at best. In context thought, it was 2nd best of a crappy group.

In order for this team to be successful, they need more out of both Gleason and Pitkanen (especially for the money they both get paid), but the fact that Pitkanen was injured, Harrison had to play above his slotting, and the bottom 3 were staffed with McBain, Sanguinetti and Corvo (who all had to be slotted above their ability at times) was a bigger issue IMO.

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07-15-2013, 08:04 AM
  #535
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Corvo was on par with Gleason

Harrison, McBain, and Sanguinetti were all worse.

I really don't understand how Harrison can be rated higher than Gleason. He's pretty much a disaster whenever in the top 4. Sure, he's better "value", but that doesn't make him a better player.

I think Harrison is getting vastly overrated due to the salary and likability factor. Luckily he's not a UFA any time soon so JR can't Chad his salary up to the point that he becomes hated.

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07-15-2013, 08:14 AM
  #536
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Originally Posted by Amaxing Joni Jokel View Post
Corvo was on par with Gleason

Harrison, McBain, and Sanguinetti were all worse.

I really don't understand how Harrison can be rated higher than Gleason. He's pretty much a disaster whenever in the top 4. Sure, he's better "value", but that doesn't make him a better player.

I think Harrison is getting vastly overrated due to the salary and likability factor. Luckily he's not a UFA any time soon so JR can't Chad his salary up to the point that he becomes hated.
I was willing to accept that people think Harrison was better than Gleason even if I disagree. I might even accep the idea that Corvo was close, even if I don't believe it. But Sanguinetti was terrible for about 90% of the season. That's why he's playing in the KHL next year, no one over here had a damn bit of interest in him.

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07-15-2013, 09:14 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Yeah, kind of hard to argue that Gleason was worse than Sanguinetti and Corvo.

I guess you could look at it from a glass half full standpoint. With Pitkanen being out most of the season, Gleason was probably the 2nd best defenseman on the team last year behind Faulk. Some would argue Harrison was better, but the quality of competition and % of starts in the defensive zone make that a suspect comparison at best. In context thought, it was 2nd best of a crappy group.

In order for this team to be successful, they need more out of both Gleason and Pitkanen (especially for the money they both get paid), but the fact that Pitkanen was injured, Harrison had to play above his slotting, and the bottom 3 were staffed with McBain, Sanguinetti and Corvo (who all had to be slotted above their ability at times) was a bigger issue IMO.
Agreed, it's hard to compare Gleason and Harrison based on role required. Here's the player usage chart of 2012-13 Canes defensemen. The only defensemen to take a majority of defensive zone draws were Gleason, Faulk, and Bellemore. The only defensemen facing a QOC above 0 were Gleason and Bellemore. Even Faulk wasn't above 0 on QOC.

Harrison's situational play was more similar to Corvo, Pitkanen, and McBain than it was to Gleason.

By comparison:
Sekera also played a primarily defensive role in 12-13, as did Hainsey. Swapping Sekera for McBain could allow for Pitkanen-Faulk to take on a more offensive role or it could allow for the bottom pairing to be sheltered more if the top 4 is Pitkanen-Sekera and Gleason-Faulk.

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07-15-2013, 09:16 AM
  #538
tarheelhockey
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Pitkanen-Sekera and Gleason-Faulk.
I kind of like those pairings.

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07-15-2013, 09:52 AM
  #539
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I kind of like those pairings.
I agree. I think Pitkanen-Sekera makes sense as a pairing, giving an outlet pass option to Pitkanen and a stay at home player to pair with Pitkanen.

I can understand moving out Harrison to sign Hainsey looking at these pairings; it would make the bottom pairing much more effective. Gleason for Hainsey seems lateral IMO.

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07-15-2013, 10:42 AM
  #540
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The problem with Gleason-Faulk, is that their likely role will really limit Faulk's offensive contributions. Whereas a Joni-Faulk pairing would see those two getting 25 minutes a night, and the choicest offensive situations.

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07-15-2013, 10:43 AM
  #541
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Forslund confirmed that they're looking at moving a defenseman:

http://www.canescountry.com/2013/7/15/4523836/monday

Quote:
According to John Forslund this morning, who was on "Hockey Today", the Carolina Hurricanes are looking to add a free agent defenseman, but need to move a defenseman to do so.

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07-15-2013, 10:45 AM
  #542
Boom Boom Anton
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Agreed, it's hard to compare Gleason and Harrison based on role required. Here's the player usage chart of 2012-13 Canes defensemen. The only defensemen to take a majority of defensive zone draws were Gleason, Faulk, and Bellemore. The only defensemen facing a QOC above 0 were Gleason and Bellemore. Even Faulk wasn't above 0 on QOC.
What's the difference between Quality of Competition vs. "relative QOC" (in layman's terms).

The charts looks different (as it relates to Faulk) when looking at relative QOC.

http://somekindofninja.com/nhl/usage...Update+Results

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07-15-2013, 10:46 AM
  #543
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I'd be very surprised if it wasn't Pitkanen they are trying to move.

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07-15-2013, 10:48 AM
  #544
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I'd be very surprised if it wasn't Pitkanen they are trying to move.
Honestly, I'm pretty ok with them moving any defenseman not named Faulk.

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07-15-2013, 10:52 AM
  #545
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I know many here hate Pitkanen with all the fury that their vengeful hearts can handle, but why would we try and trade him? His value ist kaput right now. In addition, I'm not sold that Hainsey can step in and do Pitkanen's role.

Namely, getting the puck out of the offensive zone. Do we really want Justin Faulk and Ryan Murphy to be the only defensemen that can reliably do that (Sekera remains to be seen, though Sabres fans were very appraisal towards his game in this regard)?

Harrison makes much more sense. Hainsey can do his role better and he is on a decent contract that means he will be easier for teams to take on. He honestly has more value in that regard than Pitkanen's "4.5 million for a shattered ankle/heel bone/ whatever".

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07-15-2013, 10:57 AM
  #546
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Forslund said they would have to move a "contract" and didn't specify a defenseman. But who cares for accuracy

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07-15-2013, 10:57 AM
  #547
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I'm assuming it's Hainsey, and I don't know I don't like this if it's not Gleason moving out.

Pitkanen - Running a defense of Gleason, Faulk, Sekara, Harrison, Komisarek, Hainsey is a defense that scored 10 goals last year, with half coming from Faulk. I know Pitkanen isn't a goalscoring defenseman himself, but you're trading one strength (offense) for another. Puts a lot of pressure on Murphy too.

Harrison - Doesn't make enough to consider moving him out.

Faulk/Sekara/Komisarek - Not moving.

Leaves Gleason, who has a NMC. If he's willing to waive it, great. It still seems like a lateral move at best to Hainsey who is 2 years older than Gleason.

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07-15-2013, 11:01 AM
  #548
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
What's the difference between Quality of Competition vs. "relative QOC" (in layman's terms).

The charts looks different (as it relates to Faulk) when looking at relative QOC.

http://somekindofninja.com/nhl/usage...Update+Results
QOC uses on-ice Corsi of the opponents to determine competition level.

Relative QOC uses relative Corsi (on-ice Corsi minus off-ice Corsi) of the opponents to determine competition level.

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Old
07-15-2013, 11:03 AM
  #549
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But as you said, Gleason for Hainsey is most likely a lateral move.

If you can get Hainsey on a one year, 2.5 million dollar deal, you can move out Harrison and only add 1 million to the salary total while vastly improving our defense. It gives us 5 top 4 players. Only one (and a half) true top pairing defensemen, but a very deep, very solid defense.

And a playoff caliber one.

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07-15-2013, 11:04 AM
  #550
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Our defense is improved on paper with the addition of Seks and Komi.....minus McBain and Uh-Oh.

Our forward depth is the issue. A big issue.

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