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The Magical Mystery UFA Tour (feat. Jaromir Jagr)

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Old
07-10-2013, 07:12 AM
  #176
golfpro827
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I imagine that there isn't a player on our roster that we wouldn't listed to offers of. Whether we would accept them or not...

I image the Skinner talk with Tampa went like this.

Carolina - hey, we want the three.
Tampa - it's not gonna be cheap
C - We know.
T - 5th and Skinner
C - No thanks. How about 5th and Welsh?
T - No thanks.
C - How about 5th and Dalpe?
T - No thanks.
So on and so forth.....

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07-10-2013, 07:35 AM
  #177
The Faulker 27
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Even if he took us up to a sellout of every game, with a $75 average price of those extra tickets, it would only add up to $3.4 million.

They would still need to sell thousands of Jagr jerseys to make even the barest of profits.
Well when you factor in TV revenue, licensed goods other than jersey's, and other msc stadium revenue I think that number goes a bit higher than that. The caveat is a major injury and for a 40 something player the odds are significant, imo. I'd still love to see him play as I grew up loving to watch Jagr but not sure it's the best move for the Canes at this point.

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07-10-2013, 07:39 AM
  #178
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Interesting how enamored some are with a "name player" like Jagr. Yes, he is an excellent playmaking wing and very good on the PP along the halfwall. Still very strong on the puck too. Beyond that though, he provides nothing on defense and his 5-on-5 effectiveness was nil during the playoffs.

For argument's sake, let's say Ray Whitney (another 41 y/0) was available for a one-year deal at $3.5m and it would require moving salary out (to even suggest Skinner in this scenario is utterly absurd). Jagr clearly is stronger on the puck but Whitney provides the needed RH PP presence. Both guys are PP specialists at this point in their careers but Jagr has the name cachet while some will still vilify Whitney for the refusing the waive his NTC.

Regardless, both could bring very similar skills to address existing needs. However, we're all too willing to overlook Jagr horrible production, especially at ES during the playoffs while the 0 G and 10 A would be reason enough not to sign Whitney.

Sure, it's not a perfect analogy but there's a point in there somewhere IMO. As Pittsburgh found out, star gazing doesn't always translate to results.
I'd take Ray back. In the end, joe Corvo was 6th on our team in scoring last year. The less we have to hope "this is the year dalpe breaks out!!!" The better. Everybody focuses on the lousy defense, but the fact our bottom 6 scored about 6 goals year was also a significant problem.

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07-10-2013, 07:44 AM
  #179
Joe McGrath
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Originally Posted by The Faulker 27 View Post
Well when you factor in TV revenue, licensed goods other than jersey's, and other msc stadium revenue I think that number goes a bit higher than that. The caveat is a major injury and for a 40 something player the odds are significant, imo. I'd still love to see him play as I grew up loving to watch Jagr but not sure it's the best move for the Canes at this point.
I'm not sure TV revenue works that way. Aren't they already in a fixed contract with Fox?

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07-10-2013, 07:53 AM
  #180
The Faulker 27
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I'm not sure TV revenue works that way. Aren't they already in a fixed contract with Fox?
Your right. I hadn't seen the new inked deal with FSC. That's a multi-year deal starting this season.

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07-10-2013, 07:54 AM
  #181
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I believe so, which is why they're already able to spend the money from the new deal. The only thing, maybe, that'd change is selling more advertisements based on more viewership, but I highly doubt that's going to happen. The economic impact of Jagr will at best offset his salary.

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07-10-2013, 07:58 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by The Faulker 27 View Post
Well when you factor in TV revenue, licensed goods other than jersey's, and other msc stadium revenue I think that number goes a bit higher than that.
TV revenue is already set -- they have a contract. A 1-year deal for a star might bump up ad revenue for the carrier, but that money doesn't find its way back to the Canes.

Licensed goods other than jerseys... the tshirts which are alternatives to buying a jersey? What else would be Jagr-branded? Maybe some $5 pucks? Marginal income unless they're moving in the tens of thousands. "Other revenue" means concessions and parking, which yes would be part of the equation. But bear in mind that we started from a base number of selling out every game, which is not realistic.

To make back a $3.5 million contract, the player would have to add about $85,000 of value per average home game. Using the Fan Cost Experience index, that would mean roughly 1,200 extra fans personally in attendance per game on average. Jaromir Jagr is not going to bring 1,200 extra fans to our games on his own.

It's really simple. Unless it's a Crosby or Ovechkin who is going to move massive amounts of tickets and merch through sheer star power over a long period of time, players don't make their salaries back in revenue. Their economic value is based on their ability to affect the W/L column, no more and no less. If Jagr helps us win he will be a profitable investment, full stop.

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07-10-2013, 07:59 AM
  #183
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"Carolina needs wingers. I have a feeling that they are looking into Damien Brunner for a second-line LW spot and Matt Halischuk for a third-line RW spot. Also maybe Jaromir Jagr. Because at this point, Zac Dalpe and Zach Boychuk would make the team and I just don't see that. Maybe Dalpe, who is coming off a good AHL season. But not Boychuk.

The Hurricanes signed Riley Nash to a two-year, two-way contract. But at this point, unless the Canes sign three more free agent forwards, Nash is pretty much a lock for the big club." - Dobber

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07-10-2013, 08:02 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by wallym View Post
I'd take Ray back. In the end, joe Corvo was 6th on our team in scoring last year. The less we have to hope "this is the year dalpe breaks out!!!" The better. Everybody focuses on the lousy defense, but the fact our bottom 6 scored about 6 goals year was also a significant problem.
Couldn't agree more but I suspect we're in a distinct minority in that regard.

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The economic impact of Jagr will at best offset his salary.
Even that's wildly optimistic. If the team doesn't win, it wouldn't matter if they suited up Gordie Howe.

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07-10-2013, 08:08 AM
  #185
Joe McGrath
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Honestly, I don't expect big things out of this team with or without Jagr. So I'm all for signing him because even at his advanced age he's still amazing to watch. So long as they don't dump someone of value for pennies on the dollar (or any defenseman for that matter)

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07-10-2013, 08:35 AM
  #186
golfpro827
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More from Eklund:

"On Jagr:

The list continues to fluctuate a bit as some teams are eliminated from contention...like Montreal has been recently...His top team at this point really appears to be Carolina, however the NJ Devils are also a definite dark horse to keep an eye out for. NJ is VERY good at keeping rumors from leaking out...I seriously doubt any other GM cold have pulled of a surprise like the Cory Schneider deal at an NHL draft in your own town!


More to come. "

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07-10-2013, 08:35 AM
  #187
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Speaking of which, does anyone have a good free site for rumors? Twitter doesn't work at the office....

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07-10-2013, 08:42 AM
  #188
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i don't think i would trade skinner just yet. he deserves some more time imo. as much as i enjoy jagr i wouldn't move skinner to accomodate him at this point. of course if the return was very good but it seems like a step back. like wallym says, secondary scoring and a good third line is crucial and far from OK right now.

a third line winger and another d are still required. jagr isn't a third line winger imo and hainsey isn't the answer on d.

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07-10-2013, 08:43 AM
  #189
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if you can't use twitter, I honestly feel like this site is best unless you just want the S**t on a wall approach that eklund uses.

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07-10-2013, 08:55 AM
  #190
bleedgreen
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Originally Posted by golfpro827 View Post
Speaking of which, does anyone have a good free site for rumors? Twitter doesn't work at the office....
Kuklaskorner, spectorshockey.net, hockeybuzz.com.

Kuklas is actually just a good hockey site more than rumors, blogs from around the league. Spectors has an actual rumor section. Buzz employs anyone with a keyboard and an Internet connection but can be fun to read. A couple actual writers blog there too. Slamsports or canoe.ca/hockey is really good for Canadian coverage but I think they are pushing for subscriptions now. You get 20 free articles. I've found that if I don't go very often the count starts over so I'm not sure how it works.

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07-10-2013, 08:59 AM
  #191
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i like jagr and it has been said that he is a good pp addition. alright agreed. however, it doesn't matter who's out there as we saw last season, if the coaching staff can't establish an effective pp. the pp is on the coach.

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07-10-2013, 09:00 AM
  #192
bleedgreen
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i don't think i would trade skinner just yet. he deserves some more time imo. as much as i enjoy jagr i wouldn't move skinner to accomodate him at this point. of course if the return was very good but it seems like a step back. like wallym says, secondary scoring and a good third line is crucial and far from OK right now.

a third line winger and another d are still required. jagr isn't a third line winger imo and hainsey isn't the answer on d.
Yeah the only the d that are of the quality we need are the types we need to trade ruutu or skinner for, not ufa. Some good depth guys could be found for the Charlotte to Raleigh bus I'm sure.

I doubt jr is happy with the bottom two lines. He has said himself at the end of the season he expected a bigger presence there for muller, as well as better penalty killing. The best guys went for ridiculous prices. Not sure who else is available that fits the role. He likely wants a winger or two, and possibly some definition for the third line center. He might also be handing that job to lindholm. Wouldn't be the first time he expected too much of a kid.

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07-10-2013, 09:07 AM
  #193
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Even that's wildly optimistic. If the team doesn't win, it wouldn't matter if they suited up Gordie Howe.
Agreed, and I think we may even see a dip in attendance this year. Coming off such a disappointing year and with no lockout apology deals to take advantage of, I think we'll see them drop back down to around 16.5k a game or so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by golfpro827 View Post
More from Eklund:

"On Jagr:

The list continues to fluctuate a bit as some teams are eliminated from contention...like Montreal has been recently...His top team at this point really appears to be Carolina, however the NJ Devils are also a definite dark horse to keep an eye out for. NJ is VERY good at keeping rumors from leaking out...I seriously doubt any other GM cold have pulled of a surprise like the Cory Schneider deal at an NHL draft in your own town!


More to come. "
Sounds like Eklund has a Twitter account and/or access to HF.

That's why I like Spector's as opposed to Eklund. Spector's is really just a rumor aggregate site from around the internet where he adds his opinion. He doesn't claim to be some sort of insider, getting first hand knowledge of deals that never come to fruition.

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07-10-2013, 09:09 AM
  #194
What the Faulk
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In his interview yesterday, JR mentioned by name Brett Sutter and Jeremy Welsh as players that will have every opportunity to make the Canes. So I think those are two of your bottom six. Getting a bigger body would be nice, but we're probably looking at an either/or situation between a big/strong bottom 6 forward and a guy like Jagr.

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07-10-2013, 09:11 AM
  #195
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oh yeah and i think a year of douglas murray at a million bucks wouldn't be a bad stop gap as a net front presence if noone else can be found. at least until the deadline perhaps.

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07-10-2013, 09:18 AM
  #196
Joe McGrath
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Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
In his interview yesterday, JR mentioned by name Brett Sutter and Jeremy Welsh as players that will have every opportunity to make the Canes. So I think those are two of your bottom six. Getting a bigger body would be nice, but we're probably looking at an either/or situation between a big/strong bottom 6 forward and a guy like Jagr.
Well he's said in the past guys like Boychuk and Dalpe would be given every opportunity and we've seen what that's turned into. Luckily for the two he mentioned, no one has any delusions they might provide any offense. All they have to do is hit people and not be generally terrible.

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07-10-2013, 09:20 AM
  #197
What the Faulk
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Well he's said in the past guys like Boychuk and Dalpe would be given every opportunity and we've seen what that's turned into. Luckily for the two he mentioned, no one has any delusions they might provide any offense. All they have to do is hit people and not be generally terrible.
Which, for Sutter at least, he's already shown he can do. Welsh on the other hand hasn't really shown me anything, but he does have a one-way. Let's see how he does with a camp under his belt though.

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07-10-2013, 09:22 AM
  #198
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Greetings fellow Caniacs. Long time lurker here, finally decided to register and post.

I'm from NY, but never really followed hockey up there (despite growing up on Long Island when the Islanders were dominant in the early 80's). Moved to Raleigh ten years ago, saw my first games in '05 and been a fan ever since. It was the tenacious, underdog, come from behind and win kind of mentality that really attracted me to the team from the start. Unfortunately, I think that tenacity has been lacking in recent years.

I do like the idea of Jagr on this team, for many of the reasons previously addressed. However, I don't think that if it requires getting rid of somebody like Rutuu, or god forbid Skinner, that it is worth it.

I could live with having to shed one or two of the guys who have been constantly shuffled back and forth from the Checkers for years (Dalpe, Boychuck, Dwyer) but who have never really taken off. In fact, I think Rutherford should just go ahead and use his buy-outs if necessary.

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07-10-2013, 09:36 AM
  #199
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as much as many are loathe to split up the 'tea' line (it may come to pass anyway), i would like to see: semin - tlusty - jagr in action if they were to get jagr.

if jagr were to be obtained, they could roll with a 1a/1b top two, evening out toi thereby keeping them fresh and icing a rested pp/pk. (semin and eric playing 20 or more mins. last year was too much).

of course this would probably require j. staal centering the third line (with the addition of another good winger) where i think he should be but most don't.

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07-10-2013, 09:42 AM
  #200
golfpro827
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as much as many are loathe to split up the 'tea' line (it may come to pass anyway), i would like to see: semin - tlusty - jagr in action if they were to get jagr.
No chance this happens for two reasons.

1. Eric works best with Semin. And the amount of money we are paying those two, we need their best.
2. We are already week as hell on the right. Semin and Jagr can't play together because of that issue.

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