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The Magical Mystery UFA Tour (feat. Jaromir Jagr)

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07-10-2013, 09:44 AM
  #201
cptjeff
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Originally Posted by Frank Booth23 View Post
Greetings fellow Caniacs. Long time lurker here, finally decided to register and post.

I'm from NY, but never really followed hockey up there (despite growing up on Long Island when the Islanders were dominant in the early 80's). Moved to Raleigh ten years ago, saw my first games in '05 and been a fan ever since. It was the tenacious, underdog, come from behind and win kind of mentality that really attracted me to the team from the start. Unfortunately, I think that tenacity has been lacking in recent years.

I do like the idea of Jagr on this team, for many of the reasons previously addressed. However, I don't think that if it requires getting rid of somebody like Rutuu, or god forbid Skinner, that it is worth it.

I could live with having to shed one or two of the guys who have been constantly shuffled back and forth from the Checkers for years (Dalpe, Boychuck, Dwyer) but who have never really taken off. In fact, I think Rutherford should just go ahead and use his buy-outs if necessary.
Trouble is, it's a matter of cap space. Knocking off the Dalpes and Boychucks just isn't going to do it, and we need bodies in those roster spots. I don't think we're willing to part with Skinner over this, but I do think we should be willing to trade Ruutu, if possible.

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07-10-2013, 09:53 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by golfpro827 View Post
No chance this happens for two reasons.

1. Eric works best with Semin. And the amount of money we are paying those two, we need their best.
2. We are already week as hell on the right. Semin and Jagr can't play together because of that issue.
i thought semin and tlusty clicked as well or better but i understand semin was brought in for eric.

semin has no problem playing the off-wing at all and usually gravitates there while on the ice anyway.

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07-10-2013, 09:55 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by rocky7 View Post
i thought semin and tlusty clicked as well or better but i understand semin was brought in for eric.

semin has no problem playing the off-wing at all and usually gravitates there while on the ice anyway.
The issue isn't Semin on the off wing, it's that the team doesn't have any RW depth.

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07-10-2013, 10:08 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
The issue isn't Semin on the off wing, it's that the team doesn't have any RW depth.
And equally important, there is no C on a Semin-Tlusty-Jagr line.

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07-10-2013, 10:11 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
Agreed, and I think we may even see a dip in attendance this year. Coming off such a disappointing year and with no lockout apology deals to take advantage of, I think we'll see them drop back down to around 16.5k a game or so.




Sounds like Eklund has a Twitter account and/or access to HF.

That's why I like Spector's as opposed to Eklund. Spector's is really just a rumor aggregate site from around the internet where he adds his opinion. He doesn't claim to be some sort of insider, getting first hand knowledge of deals that never come to fruition.
I made a joke *to* Spector once that he's the anti-Eklund. Eklund's model is to say that *everything* is going to happen, and be spectacularly right every now and then. Spector's model is to say *nothing* is going to happen and be spectacularly wrong every now and then.

Since what actually happens is a lot closer to "nothing" than "everything," Spector seems like the voice of reason, but all he really does is shoot down everything.

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07-10-2013, 10:18 AM
  #206
HankClerval
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Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
Since what actually happens is a lot closer to "nothing" than "everything," Spector seems like the voice of reason, but all he really does is shoot down everything.
Suddenly I have a lot more insight into your posting style.

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07-10-2013, 10:21 AM
  #207
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I don't think it's going to happen. If it was Jagr we would have signed him by now...

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07-10-2013, 10:22 AM
  #208
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alright but i was under the impression that jiri could play center. anyhow (and this is assuming of course that it is jagr) while in boston, the main talk regarding jagr was his misuse on the third line continually setting up guys who couldn't finish. if he is brought in he has to be used in such a way as to maximize his effectiveness. can you imagine though a semin - tlusty - jagr trio? these guys play the same game.

puck possession and nightly highlight reel goals . seriously though i think it would be a good line. yes they need another forward and i hope one of the young guys can step up this year. perhaps they could at least use it as a pp/pk unit.

so much really depends on how skinner comes out this year for the forward group. and if they keep ruutu who i believe jr will, much depends on his play as well.

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07-10-2013, 10:29 AM
  #209
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Isn't Ruutu signed though 2016? Why on earth would we get rid of the only forward on our team that actually checks?

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07-10-2013, 10:29 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by bluedevil58 View Post
I don't think it's going to happen. If it was Jagr we would have signed him by now...
You're entitled to your reverse-psychology play here, and well done -- but (a) JR did say only yesterday that he was looking to move a piece to complete a free agent deal, which implies (b) a move to clear salary space, and (c) Jagr is the player on the list who is most likely to command that money, and (d) Jagr's agent has made it clear that he's going to take all the time he needs to get the right deal done.

Hey, maybe it doesn't happen. I'd still put the odds at 50-50, or less. But "we would have signed him by now" is not part of that calculus, I don't think.

--hank

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07-10-2013, 10:30 AM
  #211
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Tlusty / Eric / Semin
Skinner / Jordan / Jagr
????? / Lindholm / Ruutu
Sutter / Nash / Dwyer
Westgarth

Dump Bowman and Welsh

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07-10-2013, 10:36 AM
  #212
rocky7
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Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
I made a joke *to* Spector once that he's the anti-Eklund. Eklund's model is to say that *everything* is going to happen, and be spectacularly right every now and then. Spector's model is to say *nothing* is going to happen and be spectacularly wrong every now and then.

Since what actually happens is a lot closer to "nothing" than "everything," Spector seems like the voice of reason, but all he really does is shoot down everything.
that's right and it is everywhere. in their quest to break 'the story' and be *right* most of these guys do write articles of every scenario on a daily basis whenever some hot news is at hand. fans are so thirsty for information that they get away with shotty journalism and perpetuate the negative image these writers have. there is little integrity but it is the reader that allows it to happen. vicious cycle of little importance in the whole scheme of things and a sign of the times i guess.

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07-10-2013, 10:40 AM
  #213
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Why is everyone wanting to dump Welsh? I get that he has a 1 way contract, but his cap hit/cost is minimal. Many on here bust on the Canes for not allowing a guy to develop, and because a guy didn't adapt to the pro-game right out of the gate, people want to dump him?

I haven't been overly impressed with what I've seen from him, but even if he ends up being a bottom six player who can use his size, isn't that a good thing to get out of an undrafted UFA? I say hold onto him and see what he can become as the cost impact in minimal.

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07-10-2013, 10:46 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Misfit Semin View Post
Tlusty / Eric / Semin
Skinner / Jordan / Jagr
????? / Lindholm / Ruutu
Sutter / Nash / Dwyer
Westgarth

Dump Bowman and Welsh
jagr will pretty much tell you where to be and he'll get the puck to you. if skinner can be that trigger man, great. jordan can do the dirty work but his stone hands and lack of finesse around the net just isn't a good match for jagr IMO. however, since jordan has been wanting to contribute more offensively this may be his chance if jagr is 'the guy'.

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07-10-2013, 10:51 AM
  #215
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I'm with keeping welsh. Hasn't even had a real chance yet and is dirt cheap. Bowman has had his chances and is generally purposeless. Scorer who can't score, checker not strong enough to check. Welsh has hands and size. I think his problem will be they want him to be lucic, when he plays like the better version of penner. Accept him for what his is, give him a chance as that guy. He might make it as himself, I don't think bowman will.

Peters in the minors on a one way is probably more of an anchor than either, but if ward gets hurt he's a cheap backup.

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07-10-2013, 10:55 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Why is everyone wanting to dump Welsh? I get that he has a 1 way contract, but his cap hit/cost is minimal. Many on here bust on the Canes for not allowing a guy to develop, and because a guy didn't adapt to the pro-game right out of the gate, people want to dump him?

I haven't been overly impressed with what I've seen from him, but even if he ends up being a bottom six player who can use his size, isn't that a good thing to get out of an undrafted UFA? I say hold onto him and see what he can become as the cost impact in minimal.
I completely agree. The canes consistently suck at developing players. I say give him a chance. He will never be a top 6 forward, but we need some depth, and he could very well provide it.

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07-10-2013, 11:01 AM
  #217
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Welsh can, at the very least, skate and hit people. If the fourth line ends up being something like Welsh-Nash-Dwyer I will be very happy.

We say it's the bottom 6 that's an issue....that's not entirely true. What's really a problem is the third line. Because even if we sign Jagr, we're still playing a Pat Dwyer on the third line.

Somebody like Dalpe or Rask REALLY needs to step up and win a spot.

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07-10-2013, 11:05 AM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevil58 View Post
Isn't Ruutu signed though 2016? Why on earth would we get rid of the only forward on our team that actually checks?


Ruutu is one hit away from ~20 games missed to injury. Same with Joni. Wouldn't mind seeing both traded now.

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07-10-2013, 11:07 AM
  #219
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Dalpe will never step up. He has no NHL qualities outside of speed and a shot, and most goals nowadays are garbage goals anyways, which Dalpe won't score because he's both weak and a perimeter player. His max upside is Mason Raymond, more likely to be a Jeff Tambellini.

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07-10-2013, 11:07 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by QuitStaaling View Post
Any player is one hit away from ~20 games missed to injury. Same with any other player. Wouldn't mind seeing all of them traded now.
FTFY.

--hank

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07-10-2013, 11:11 AM
  #221
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Dalpe will never step up. He has no NHL qualities outside of speed and a shot, and most goals nowadays are garbage goals anyways, which Dalpe won't score because he's both weak and a perimeter player. His max upside is Mason Raymond, more likely to be a Jeff Tambellini.
Dalpe has to be the worst player in NHL history compared to Mike Bossy.

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07-10-2013, 11:12 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Amaxing Joni Jokel View Post
Dalpe will never step up. He has no NHL qualities outside of speed and a shot, and most goals nowadays are garbage goals anyways, which Dalpe won't score because he's both weak and a perimeter player. His max upside is Mason Raymond, more likely to be a Jeff Tambellini.
I'm inclined to agree. Nevertheless he is probably going to be there by default, unless somebody else (like Rask) really kills it in TC and earns a spot.

This is where most teams are like "Hey, we've got a third line wing spot wide open, but we don't need to sign anybody because we've got five forwards and one of them is bound to win the job."

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07-10-2013, 11:23 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Roboturner913 View Post
Welsh can, at the very least, skate and hit people. If the fourth line ends up being something like Welsh-Nash-Dwyer I will be very happy.

We say it's the bottom 6 that's an issue....that's not entirely true. What's really a problem is the third line. Because even if we sign Jagr, we're still playing a Pat Dwyer on the third line.

Somebody like Dalpe or Rask REALLY needs to step up and win a spot.
yep agree. the 4th line has enough pieces but the top nine need a piece or, two even. will be interesting to see how/where lindholm fits if he makes the team, which i think he will.

actually things are looking pretty darn good. the addition of a couple good forwards and a defenseman, either now or in the near future and barring injury, the team looks quite competitive.

many have suggested the need for a gritty forward in the top nine and that's fine, but a speedy winger would be a good addition as well.


Last edited by rocky7: 07-10-2013 at 11:29 AM.
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07-10-2013, 11:25 AM
  #224
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Re: Welsh

It's probably a combination of our terrible prospect development and having guys like Skinner who have found immediate success. Welsh is older than Jordan, who already has 7 seasons under his belt, and only a month younger than our late bloomer, Tlusty, who has put together 2 nice seasons now. It's hard to compare his development to any other "prospect" we've had. He might well come along and be a good bottom 6er, but giving 1mil on a 1-way to a guy and having him put up a .38 ppg pace in the AHL doesn't sit well with me.

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07-10-2013, 11:43 AM
  #225
totaltank
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Ruutu is one hit away from ~20 games missed to injury. Same with Joni. Wouldn't mind seeing both traded now.
Yeah, we have to be really cautious about calling Ruutu and/or Pitkanen injury prone. The fact that they each seem to get hurt a lot and miss a lot of games is irrelevant. Their injuries can all be explained by random bad luck, and could just as easily happen to anyone. The "Flat Earth Society" comes out in force when you suggest that they may actually be *more* prone to injury than anyone else. And please, don't use games played or any other random stat to try to back up your point. All players are injury risks. None more than any other.

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