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Do the Sens need a Casino to compete? *All Melnyk/Casino Talk Here*

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07-09-2013, 02:46 PM
  #151
Karl Eriksson
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Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
A strip mall filled with middle-class retail stores won't be the kind of cross-promotion Melnyk is looking for - there are already enough malls in and about Kanata.

What Melnyk wants is the high-income, upper-middle and upper-class people who can a) invest in season tickets, b) invest in luxury suites, and c) spend big at the proposed Casino. Ottawa's layout means most suits are here doing business downtown, so for them, a commute to Kanata is a bit of a pain in the ass. I imagine there's quite a bit of incentive for them to just stay downtown and visit some bars or pubs if they want to have some late night entertainment. In that sense, the CTC by itself is less appealing to those suits than the CTC plus a Casino; the latter offers a more comprehensive entertainment option and makes the trip to Kanata more worthwhile.
We all get why he wants a casino, easy quasi-monopoly that makes money. Ontario has essentially said there will be none at CTC. My point is that should not stop him from building a grand vision for CTC where you can eat, play, relax, shop, sleep, etc. and to date I have no heard or seen any plans for that.

There are outlets opening on the other side of the highway, that is progress I suppose. Soon we will be able to walk 30 mins over a highway overpass to shop.

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07-09-2013, 02:48 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Karl Eriksson View Post
Pretty easy answer if you are starting with no gaming, but RCR is already there. You have to kill it, and piss off the people who currently benefit from it. I am not one of those people, but you can see how that makes the answer harder to get to. There are real (not hypothetical) jobs and votes at stake.
All true ,all I want is a clear picture on why EM needs this so bad.Just because he says the sens lose money isnt enough .

If its so bad why does he stay then?? Put the team up for sale,contact the BOD of the NHL and tell them you hemmoraging money in this market and it cant sustain an nhl team .

We as fans could deal with it then

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07-09-2013, 02:49 PM
  #153
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This is the province's fault & something McGuinty should have finalized before he left office if he wasn't so incompetent There is no reason why Ottawa could not have both locations but the province won't allow it because they are idiots at Queenspark who don't care about Ottawa, they care about Toronto who did get two Casinos. The RCR would handle the Eastend & the Kanata location would handle the Westend. It's a simple solution which the province should allow but those dickheads seem to **** everything up.

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07-09-2013, 02:49 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
All true ,all I want is a clear picture on why EM needs this so bad.Just because he says the sens lose money isnt enough .

If its so bad why does he stay then?? Put the team up for sale,contact the BOD of the NHL and tell them you hemmoraging money in this market and it cant sustain an nhl team .

We as fans could deal with it then
Because if you want the Sens spending more on signing players to be more competitive, he needs to increase his revenue stream.

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07-09-2013, 02:54 PM
  #155
Karl Eriksson
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
Because if you want the Sens spending more on signing players to be more competitive, he needs to increase his revenue stream.
if you do agree with that principle, then you should want to see the books on all his ventures to see if he is getting the most out of those.

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07-09-2013, 02:55 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
Because if you want the Sens spending more on signing players to be more competitive, he needs to increase his revenue stream.
well he will also have to increase ticket prices, which are the lowest by far for canadian teams right now. That is always a difficult dance....

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07-09-2013, 02:56 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
Because if you want the Sens spending more on signing players to be more competitive, he needs to increase his revenue stream.
So without a casino our team isnt finacially viable ??I get the new stream of revenue ,to move the team upwards and onwards bit.But what i dont get is why if we are losing money or barely breaking even .Why would owner stay here so long ???

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07-09-2013, 02:57 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Karl Eriksson View Post
if you do agree with that principle, then you should want to see the books on all his ventures to see if he is getting the most out of those.
Bingo

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07-09-2013, 02:59 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Eriksson View Post
Pretty easy answer if you are starting with no gaming, but RCR is already there. You have to kill it, and piss off the people who currently benefit from it. I am not one of those people, but you can see how that makes the answer harder to get to. There are real (not hypothetical) jobs and votes at stake.
You dont have to kill the RCR you have to let it die . Horse racing isnt what it use to be . If there was never the options of putting the slots there it would be gone by now .

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07-09-2013, 02:59 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
So without a casino our team isnt finacially viable ??I get the new stream of revenue ,to move the team upwards and onwards bit.But what i dont get is why if we are losing money or barely breaking even .Why would owner stay here so long ???
They are probably breaking even at the current level of spending. Fans want the team to spend up to $14M(what it would take to hit the cap now). That money has to come from somewhere.

We spent to the cap before, but the cap was lower back then.

They might even be profitable now but if the cap and player salaries keep going up they will eventually have problems.

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07-09-2013, 03:01 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Vesa Awesaka View Post
You dont have to kill the RCR you have to let it die . Horse racing isnt what it use to be . If there was never the options of putting the slots there its would be gone by now .
Our owner doesnt share your belief that horse racing is dead

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07-09-2013, 03:02 PM
  #162
Karl Eriksson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesa Awesaka View Post
You dont have to kill the RCR you have to let it die . Horse racing isnt what it use to be . If there was never the options of putting the slots there it would be gone by now .
Has the Province pronounced themselves on that ? Is there still a policy of active financial support for the industry, or are they fine with the tracks dying ?

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07-09-2013, 03:04 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
Our owner doesnt share your belief that horse racing is dead
Except his significant divestment in the horse racing industry and calling for a different plan on that front would indicate that he is aware of the downtrend.

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07-09-2013, 03:05 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
Our owner doesnt share your belief that horse racing is dead
I could care less . This is about a casino imo not the team . Casinos are made to make money i want this casino to create the maximum amount of wealth it can . RCR vs the CTC i believe the CTC is the clear choice as the location where more money stands to be created .

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07-09-2013, 03:05 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Iggy77 View Post
They are probably breaking even at the current level of spending. Fans want the team to spend up to $14M(what it would take to hit the cap now). That money has to come from somewhere.

We spent to the cap before, but the cap was lower back then.

They might even be profitable now but if the cap and player salaries keep going up they will eventually have problems.
So you are answering my question with a yes then .Ottawa isnt a viable hockey market without help from city and goverment,becuase of the current rate of inflation in the nhl.Fans would understand a ticket hike becuase of the bolded.

The goverment and city hall will not unfortunately

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07-09-2013, 03:07 PM
  #166
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This is it. They're recommending RCR as only option. No to Canadian Tire Centre.

It doesn't sound like Melnyk accomplished anything.

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07-09-2013, 03:07 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Quo View Post
Except his significant divestment in the horse racing industry and calling for a different plan on that front would indicate that he is aware of the downtrend.
All true but horseracing still makes a profit however small for the city,and they dont need the expense of building another track when they already have one.They could just add a casino to it

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07-09-2013, 03:08 PM
  #168
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This is it. They're recommending RCR as only option. No to Canadian Tire Centre.

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07-09-2013, 03:10 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
So you are answering my question with a yes then .Ottawa isnt a viable hockey market without help from city and goverment,becuase of the current rate of inflation in the nhl.Fans would understand a ticket hike becuase of the bolded.
We're viable as a market if we stay near the cap floor. I am not sure if we qualify for revenue sharing under the new CBA but that would be a boost as well.

But if fans want the team to keep all of it's top players and be able sign top players during free agency, then I think the answer is no.

Better get used to a never ending revolving door of most of our players leaving once they reach UFA status for bigger money elsewhere.

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07-09-2013, 03:11 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Karl Eriksson View Post
Has the Province pronounced themselves on that ? Is there still a policy of active financial support for the industry, or are they fine with the tracks dying ?
I'll give you an example . I build a mine with a ten year life span that employs 800 people . After ten years its clear theres no precious metals left to be mined so i close it down . The 800 people either stay jobless or move on to new jobs or areas well i turn my attention to new profitable projects .I dont go to the government seeking to prop up a dying mine . This may be a naive assessment of the situation but this is where my views come from .

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07-09-2013, 03:11 PM
  #171
Karl Eriksson
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All true but horseracing still makes a profit however small for the city,and they dont need the expense of building another track when they already have one.They could just add a casino to it
For me it's also this false premise floating around that a casino at RCR will make less than one at CTC.

RCR is closer to downtown, close to the airport and a lot of hotels, and is in huge growth area (Riverside South) similar to Stittsville. What makes people so sure that RCR can't host a beutiful world class casino?

Other than being a chance for the owner of a team we all love to get richer, what advantage does CTC have ?

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07-09-2013, 03:12 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Iggy77 View Post
The NHL would never let him move the team. I don't think there is any danger of that.

Not to mention if he moved the team anywhere else it would be a worse market than Ottawa (assuming QC and TO get expansion teams not relocation).
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Originally Posted by Classless Manked View Post
Owners cannot just move teams at their own free will.

As of where we are right now, there is a 0% chance the BoG approves any proposed relocation by Melnyk.
While I hope that's the case, Bettman has shown little love to Ottawa.

We're like the wart he contracted from Ziegler.

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07-09-2013, 03:14 PM
  #173
Karl Eriksson
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Originally Posted by Vesa Awesaka View Post
I'll give you an example . I build a mine with a ten year life span that employs 800 people . After ten years its clear theres no precious metals left to be mined so i close it down . The 800 people either stay jobless or move on to new jobs or areas well i turn my attention to new profitable projects .I dont go to the government seeking to prop up a dying mine . This may be a naive assessment of the situation but this is where my views come from .
I agree with you, let the track die. My only question is whether our lovely provincial gvt has stepped in to 'correct the market' and ensure that horse-racing lives on at a loss?

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07-09-2013, 03:14 PM
  #174
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While I hope that's the case, Bettman has shown little love to Ottawa.

We're like the wart he contracted from Ziegler.
If he can fight to keep Phoenix in the NHL, he can fight for Ottawa. Bettman fought to keep the team here before.

It'd be pretty embarrassing for the NHL to lose a Canadian team, especially one that is a top 10 market.

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07-09-2013, 03:15 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by topshelf15 View Post
All true but horseracing still makes a profit however small for the city,and they dont need the expense of building another track when they already have one.They could just add a casino to it
What expense? The city would be paying for nothing. It would be Melnyk's venture, built and run on his dime.

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