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Don Cherry talks about Bozak and Clarkson

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07-09-2013, 11:48 PM
  #101
colchar
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Originally Posted by theremedial View Post

I don't see these as upgrades but I do see getting rid of Bozak and upgrading to Weiss, Etc. Bobby Ryan would be an upgrade, real hockey players not guys on a probable high note or ones on a low.

Your user name is particularly appropriate as your arguments here are remedial

Do you not understand that they cannot force players to sign with them or force teams to trade with them? Just because Weiss signed for X elsewhere does not mean he would have signed for the same here, if at all. And just because a particular package was accepted for Ryan does not mean that the Leafs could have put together an equivalent package or that it would have been accepted.

It might seem oh so simple in your world of remedial logic, but in the real world things work far differently.

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07-09-2013, 11:52 PM
  #102
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sorry wrong thread.

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07-09-2013, 11:52 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Coatsy79 View Post
I like grapes but his anti European stuff is getting really old (the part of the interview about euro goalies)

I get it Hockey is "Canada's" game, so what football, rugby, cricket, golf, tennis etc are all Britains games, it doesn't stop other countries being occasionally better at them than "us" (ok most of the time in the case of football)

He's becoming quite the bigot

I think you missed his point. He is referring to the Canadian Hockey League and its development of Canadian players (goalies in this instance), not the NHL. He has a point that our Junior teams should be developing our players rather than bringing in players from Europe. Those Europeans can obviously play in the NHL, by why use up a bunch of the limited spots in out development league for European players?

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07-09-2013, 11:57 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
That being said there is no clear upgrade path here. Tally the worth of what we gave up.

Frattin, Grabo+15m, Scrivens, 2x2nds 3x4ths

For Bernier and Bolland unproven and on the decline.

Ask yourself is that a good trade even if you get Clarkson free.

How do you figure Bolland is on the decline?

Chicago obviously thought enough of him to have him out on the ice in final minute of the third period of game six of the Stanley Cup finals, a Cup clinching game that was tied at the time. And it paid off when he scored the Cup winning goal. But two weeks later you label him as being on the decline? Based on what? And what, exactly, makes you think you know more about his abilities than the team with which he just won the Stanley Cup?

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07-09-2013, 11:57 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by kilgore111 View Post
Sorry I am missing your point? Are you talking about Bozak? Are you saying he is on pace to be a first line centre because he has approached 20 goals in a season?
Just saying that all these arguments against Bozak(see: Cherry bashing him because he's never hit 20 goals) are bogus. Saying "he's never hit 50 points/20 goals" is unfair because he's been on pace to hit those two point totals for two straight seasons. That doesn't make him a 1C, I'd just like to have stronger arguments against him. It's like saying "Kessel's regressing because he didn't score 30 goals this year".

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07-10-2013, 12:02 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Hyperglide View Post
You know whose overpaid CBC? Don Cherry.

Don Cherry in his prime wouldn't even be able to even catch up to Phil Kessel and here he is ripping Bozie. Ugh...
In my prime I couldn't catch up to kessel. Does that mean I can't rip bozak? Because I hate the signing.

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07-10-2013, 12:21 AM
  #107
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i don't know why people are so worried about bozie on first line. kadri might end up there if he can improve his faceoffs.

jvr-kadri-kessel
lupul-bozak-kulemin/clarkson

doesn't sound bad for a 1-2 punch to me?

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07-10-2013, 12:42 AM
  #108
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It's within the realm of possibility for JVR to become a PPG winger especially considering that he'll be utilized in a variety of roles. Similarly, Kessel is going to be a lot more effective especially considering that he have Clarkson on his line especially during PP.

We're likely that we're going to see high performance from our wingers and possibly Kadri as well. Do we really expect another PPG centre in Tyler Bozak? I seriously think that we're being very unrealistic.

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07-10-2013, 01:46 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
It's within the realm of possibility for JVR to become a PPG winger especially considering that he'll be utilized in a variety of roles. Similarly, Kessel is going to be a lot more effective especially considering that he have Clarkson on his line especially during PP.

We're likely that we're going to see high performance from our wingers and possibly Kadri as well. Do we really expect another PPG centre in Tyler Bozak? I seriously think that we're being very unrealistic.
Exactly, thats what im saying, im not gonna argue with people about Clarkson because i have only seen him play in Jersey, he looks like a guy who is really physical and hungry to get open on the ice and score goals, good puck protection downlow too, good complimentary piece like Simmonds or Hartnell. But JVR is only going to get a lot better, his potential is pretty high, he could end up being rick nash like with more of a willingness to shoot instead of go wide all the time. Lupul and Kessel are pretty much both all star snipers. Kadri is only going to get better at puck distributing with two guys which are very hungry to recieve the puck in CLarkson and Lupul, instead of Kulemin who couldn't care less if he gets the puck. But i do like Kulemin on the 3rd line with Clarkson. Kulemin-Bolland-Mcclement could be a very good line all around. I expect a lot from our forward group this season.

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07-10-2013, 02:53 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare Jewel View Post
MacArther, Scrivens, Grabovski

out


Clarkson, Bernier, Bolland

in



And we're not better? Alright then.
Clarkson is a glorified 3rd liner who scored 30 goals once in his career with higest points produced at 46

Bernier: unproven

Bolland is the only proven acquisition. But he is almost always injured and is on the decline


Last edited by leafstilldeath: 07-10-2013 at 03:07 AM.
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07-10-2013, 03:00 AM
  #111
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Resigning Bozak is a mistake. bozak is useless. And yes I am repeating myself but seeing him as 1C is just making me sick to my stomach.

Bozak got so many sweet dishes from kessel only to miss the net or mishandle the puck. 2nd, as soon as bozak gets the puck he looks/passes to Kessel. It got so bloody obvious that teams started double teaming Kessel and leaving bozo the clown alone.

With little hockey IQ bozak should have noticed it and should have driven the puck with possession to the opposition blue line but oh no bozo as always passes to Kessel.

Bozak is so USELESS later on in the season and in the playoffs even his face-off skills were useless. Bozak has gotta go.

You know what would be funny though. Kessel's agent pressured Nonis in to signing Bozak or else Kessel would walk.

So nonis signs Bozak, next year as soon as Kessel's deal is done Bozak is shipped out. I would be so happy.

I do not want to see Bozak on this team. Period!

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07-10-2013, 03:03 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by OptimusForever View Post
Or Don would've had Kadri up too early and he would've never developed into what he is today; an elite scoring threat.

You think Don *****ing on coaches corner had anything to do with kadri playing on the team this year? It didn't. It was Kadri's time and it was apparently the right time.
Is Ron Wilson your fav person in the world?

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07-10-2013, 03:06 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
This team made the playoffs last year and was ten minutes away from eliminating an elite team. Keep in mind, the Leafs have one of the youngest teams in the league, I think it's a safe assumption that the majority of this roster only gets better. That being said, there weren't too many voids to fill minus a first line center, a nearly impossible position to fill via free agency, and a defensive dman, which likely is addressed.
I have a feeling Leafs won't make the playoffs next season. ofcourse i hope i am wrong but the moves nonis made are the moves for the sake of making moves. We are not any better than what we were. 2nd and most importantly the absolute needs for the team (1C, top 2 or top 4 D) is still not addressed.

Nonis = Fail as a GM

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07-10-2013, 03:14 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
At the end of the day if Clarkson does not pan out, Bolland a rental does not perform and we are set back 2 years in the development of the team.

The safer bet was trying to land a Weiss or Ryan, improve the D and get someone like Emery. Low risk high reward less damning to our future potentially.

We made knee jerk moves. They are not well thought out but Carlyle wanted it so.
If we do not make playoffs next year Carlyle should be canned if he had influenced the moves. I did not like Carlyle sitting Komi meanwhile Kostka and Holzer was disaster on ice. Also, Carlyle made a mess of Grabo.

Carlyle does not seem like a player's coach. He seems like a dude with a personal vendetta against players he does not like and they are run out of town.

Example: Lupul

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07-10-2013, 03:22 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Totti View Post
Great point. It's just like the old days except with a salary cap.

I honestly would have preferred it if, after the Bolland trade, they would have did nothing else. No buyouts, nothing. Give Komi a shot, put Grabo on wing, re-sign MacA for 2 years on a low hit. Done.

This lineup would have as much of a chance as the current one and at least if it failed, the Leafs would have 2 comp. buyouts left, Komi off the books and much more cap space.

Yes, Yes and YES!!!

NOnis on the other hand NO NO and NO

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07-10-2013, 03:31 AM
  #116
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Wow, sextuple-posting, never seen that before

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07-10-2013, 05:25 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
Absolute idiotic comments by Cherry. Maybe if you watched the game instead of drawing conclusions from stats you'd notice Bozie is much better than you give him credit for.
The Leafs have vastly improved with Bolland, Clarkey, and Bernie. Also adding Gauthier in the pipeline helps a lot.


You think he doesn't watch games?

You can accuse Cherry of many tings, but the one thing that you absolutely cannot accuse him of is watching the games. Do you even know who you're talking about?

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07-10-2013, 05:28 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by getyourselfsomerest View Post
Am I really the only one who sees that for two seasons in a row he's been on pace for 20 goals and 50 points....and he's only played 3 full seasons.
And Grabo hit either hit 50+ or was on a 50PPG pace his entire career here except last season and he was called garbage. He played what? 4 seasons without PPG wingers in the same system as Bozak.

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07-10-2013, 07:19 AM
  #119
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Research the comparables. Bozak is NOT overpaid.

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07-10-2013, 07:25 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
At the end of the day if Clarkson does not pan out, Bolland a rental does not perform and we are set back 2 years in the development of the team.

The safer bet was trying to land a Weiss or Ryan, improve the D and get someone like Emery. Low risk high reward less damning to our future potentially.

We made knee jerk moves. They are not well thought out but Carlyle wanted it so.
How do you know the Leafs didn't try to get Ryan? I love it when people say we should get this guy and that guy as if it's like going to a store and picking up something for dinner. Why stop at Ryan? Why don't we just go out and get Crosby and Stamkos too?

As for wanting Emery ahead of Bernier, I'm speechless.

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07-10-2013, 07:27 AM
  #121
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I'm happy to have Bozak re-signed, I'll be honest. But I do understand the sentiment that's he's not a #1 center, certainly not the stereotypical #1 center a team is always striving for. Nonetheless, the hyperbole I'm reading, and hate he is receiving is mindblowing. Pack mentality, it seems like.

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07-10-2013, 08:20 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by leafstilldeath View Post
Clarkson is a glorified 3rd liner who scored 30 goals once in his career with higest points produced at 46

Bernier: unproven

Bolland is the only proven acquisition. But he is almost always injured and is on the decline
All these players are better than the ones the Leafs gave up. Really, I would rather have an unproven Bernier over the seasoned vet Scrivens. Bolland over Frattin is a no brainer and I like what Clarkson brings to the team over Grabovski. There is more to the game than just scoring and Clarkson brings that to the table in spades; Grabovski, not so much.

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07-10-2013, 08:25 AM
  #123
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Bozak is a capable 2nd liner, and he got paid like one. He wasn't paid like a first-liner, so I don't get all the whining. Would I have liked an upgrade? Sure. Do I think that Weiss, Roy or Filpulla represent that? Not really. Ribeiro was probably the closest thing to a 1C available this year (beyond Vinny who chose not to come here), and most people I ever mentioned him to dismissed the idea based on opinions of the player.

Bozak is a good fit with this team until a 1C becomes available to us and makes fair value for both him and the organization.

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07-10-2013, 08:28 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Sypher04 View Post
Research the comparables. Bozak is NOT overpaid.
how many 3rd line centers in the league are making over $4 million and locked up for 5 years?

if bozak was coveted as much as the media/ dreger were saying he was he would have likely have signed somewhere else. there is a reason bozak signed with the leafs instead of somewhere else. what team with an option would choose bozak over weiss, flippula, ribiero, roy, etc, etc. bozak chose the leafs because it is the only team that would give him significant ice time and top line wingers to play with.

i think at the end we are going to end up with an overpaid 3rd line center/ winger the second nonis is able to figure out how to get a proper number 1 center.

i would have much preferred going into the season with,

jvr-kadri-kessel
lupul-grabovski-clarkson
kulemin-bolland-xxxxx
orr-mclemment-xxxxx

the benefit with this lineup is;

1. max 4 years with grabovksi instead of 5 with bozak

2. grabovski has higher offensive upside then bozak, if he is able to turn it around on the 2nd line.

3. if he turns it around enough to increase his value nonis might be able to trade him? if the cap increases we could possibly retain a little salary in a trade if needed.

4. we can always buy him out next season if there is a better option in the ufa market.

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07-10-2013, 08:34 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Sypher04 View Post
Research the comparables. Bozak is NOT overpaid.
He got about double what I would give him. This team will never be a contender while he is on the 1st line.

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