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Old
07-15-2013, 08:45 PM
  #676
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
IF we're gonna sign Morrow, we need to make a move first (please let it be Desharnais leaving, please let it be Desharnais leaving, ...)...
Not necessarily right away. What is the timetable for Gionta's return next season? As far as I know, he won't be ready for the start and Morrow will be in his place than. Allows us to make a move from a position of strength when needed, or have valuable depth if/when other injuries occur.

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07-15-2013, 08:46 PM
  #677
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Not necessarily right away. What is the timetable for Gionta's return next season? As far as I know, he won't be ready for the start and Morrow will be in his place than. Allows us to make a move from a position of strength when needed, or have valuable depth if/when other injuries occur.
Training camp.

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07-15-2013, 08:55 PM
  #678
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Not necessarily right away. What is the timetable for Gionta's return next season? As far as I know, he won't be ready for the start and Morrow will be in his place than. Allows us to make a move from a position of strength when needed, or have valuable depth if/when other injuries occur.
Gionta's back for camp, supposedly...we need to dump Desharnais & Moen now...Jersey wants to dump Volchenkov...I smell a deal...

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07-15-2013, 08:58 PM
  #679
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Training camp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
Gionta's back for camp, supposedly...we need to dump Desharnais & Moen now...Jersey wants to dump Volchenkov...I smell a deal...
Really? I thought he was out til close to November, and Emelin til close to December. That's good news. Huh, disregard my comment than, cause right now there is no room without moving a forward first.

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07-15-2013, 09:01 PM
  #680
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2 years, 4.5M.

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07-15-2013, 09:12 PM
  #681
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Whether the Habs have to pay Subban 7-8M next year as opposed to the 5M they could of had him at on a long term deal last year, affects the team how exactly?

There's an assumption that having cap space means you will automatically spend it wisely. That's quite a leap.
The point isn't whether or not we'll use the extra cap space wisely, the point is having the extra space.

The bridge deal was really just having extra space for 1 year vs extra space for 5-8 years.

Any time you can have extra space is a plus as it gives you more flexibility. It doesn't mean it's going to help you. If you decide to give 4M to Gomez, then it ends up being pretty darn stupid, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get that room if possible.

It's an even lesser issue now because it's easier to create some room with the possibility of retaining salary during trades, but it's still a bonus to have it.

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07-15-2013, 10:32 PM
  #682
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the funny thing is that if Briere wasnt a local boy, we would have 0 UFA signing

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07-15-2013, 11:02 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
Gionta's back for camp, supposedly...we need to dump Desharnais & Moen now...Jersey wants to dump Volchenkov...I smell a deal...
If Volchenkov only had 1 year left I'd do it but we have many D prospects looking for playing time that are getting close. Tinordi, Pateryn, Beaulieu. 3 years is way too long. I do like the idea of trading Gionta or Moen to Jersey though. Urbom interests me but we'd have to add. Moen would look good in an Oilers uniform.


Last edited by Scotianhab: 07-15-2013 at 11:08 PM.
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07-16-2013, 12:43 AM
  #684
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LA is the team needing to unload d-men. I would not mind a Greene or Mitchell as short term solution. They are looking for scoring from the wing position.... maybe Bourque or DD ��

Nabbing Clifford might be nice as well.

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07-16-2013, 01:29 AM
  #685
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I have to disagree with that. As a matter of fact, I find that most of Bergevin's moves (and non-moves) are showing long term vision. Not trading his draft picks for temporary fixes are the best examples. Hiring staff whose role is solely looking at the development of those young prospects is another. Him saying that he's wanting to build a team who will be contending year-in, year-out is yet another sign that's he's thinking of the future. Him saying that you don't build a winner through free agency but through good draft/development shows continuity and foreground vision.

As for the Subban example, the fan base is divided half and half as to decide if the bridging contract was a good idea or not. Personally, seeing the youngsters around the league being signed too early to long term deals and seeing their reduced production, I strongly believe that Subban tried to prove his past season that he's deserving of that big contract and he'll do the same this coming season. The bridging contract, in my opinion, played a huge role in his motivation and there's a chance that he may not have won the Norris if it weren't for it. Also, Bergevin showed his long term vision knowing that he's getting Subban at rebate for two years (with the cap going down) and by the time his contract expires, the cap will be back up and Markov's contract will be off the books.

Bergevin is the best thing happening to the Habs in 20+ years and in my opinion, he's showing nothing but long term vision.

Now by signing Briere (and possibly Morrow), he's not giving any future away for those guys like he would in a trade. He's simply buying time for his young prospect to develop in order to be productive (and cheap) at the NHL level when those guys are gone. Again, an eye on competing today while keeping a close eye on the future.
Great well thought out post. We have a fantastic stock pile of prospects and MB knows the importance of player development.

Still don't get why so many fans couldn't see the point of giving PK a bridge deal.

The DD deal is his worst move but even still could work out if DD gets his game back (hopefully on the wing).

Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Did you watch the playoffs? Bourque was our best forward...
Bourque was a beast. Even if he can play like that more than half the time, like 65-70% of the time then I'll be happy. I thought he was one of our best forwards all year. Hope he can keep it up.

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07-16-2013, 04:20 AM
  #686
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
Gionta's back for camp, supposedly...we need to dump Desharnais & Moen now...Jersey wants to dump Volchenkov...I smell a deal...
Jersey wants to dump Volchenkov for a reason.

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07-16-2013, 04:36 AM
  #687
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I have to disagree with that. As a matter of fact, I find that most of Bergevin's moves (and non-moves) are showing long term vision. Not trading his draft picks for temporary fixes are the best examples. Hiring staff whose role is solely looking at the development of those young prospects is another. Him saying that he's wanting to build a team who will be contending year-in, year-out is yet another sign that's he's thinking of the future. Him saying that you don't build a winner through free agency but through good draft/development shows continuity and foreground vision.

As for the Subban example, the fan base is divided half and half as to decide if the bridging contract was a good idea or not. Personally, seeing the youngsters around the league being signed too early to long term deals and seeing their reduced production, I strongly believe that Subban tried to prove his past season that he's deserving of that big contract and he'll do the same this coming season. The bridging contract, in my opinion, played a huge role in his motivation and there's a chance that he may not have won the Norris if it weren't for it. Also, Bergevin showed his long term vision knowing that he's getting Subban at rebate for two years (with the cap going down) and by the time his contract expires, the cap will be back up and Markov's contract will be off the books.

Bergevin is the best thing happening to the Habs in 20+ years and in my opinion, he's showing nothing but long term vision.

Now by signing Briere (and possibly Morrow), he's not giving any future away for those guys like he would in a trade. He's simply buying time for his young prospect to develop in order to be productive (and cheap) at the NHL level when those guys are gone. Again, an eye on competing today while keeping a close eye on the future.
I have been saying the exact same thing! It is encouraging that at least some people on here are able to see what should be blatantly obvious.

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Old
07-16-2013, 06:28 AM
  #688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I have to disagree with that. As a matter of fact, I find that most of Bergevin's moves (and non-moves) are showing long term vision. Not trading his draft picks for temporary fixes are the best examples. Hiring staff whose role is solely looking at the development of those young prospects is another. Him saying that he's wanting to build a team who will be contending year-in, year-out is yet another sign that's he's thinking of the future. Him saying that you don't build a winner through free agency but through good draft/development shows continuity and foreground vision.

As for the Subban example, the fan base is divided half and half as to decide if the bridging contract was a good idea or not. Personally, seeing the youngsters around the league being signed too early to long term deals and seeing their reduced production, I strongly believe that Subban tried to prove his past season that he's deserving of that big contract and he'll do the same this coming season. The bridging contract, in my opinion, played a huge role in his motivation and there's a chance that he may not have won the Norris if it weren't for it. Also, Bergevin showed his long term vision knowing that he's getting Subban at rebate for two years (with the cap going down) and by the time his contract expires, the cap will be back up and Markov's contract will be off the books.

Bergevin is the best thing happening to the Habs in 20+ years and in my opinion, he's showing nothing but long term vision.

Now by signing Briere (and possibly Morrow), he's not giving any future away for those guys like he would in a trade. He's simply buying time for his young prospect to develop in order to be productive (and cheap) at the NHL level when those guys are gone. Again, an eye on competing today while keeping a close eye on the future.
good post. been saying this for a long, long time...

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07-16-2013, 06:49 AM
  #689
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good post. been saying this for a long, long time...
I also agree in great part, although I was slightly disappointed at the is year's draft.

This draft had two characteristics, plenty of local talent and talent with size, exactly what the Habs needed.

The Habs took a big swing at size with McCarron and I cannot agree more with that pick. But I sort of get the feeling that they put all their eggs in the same basket, and then went back to their old ways of drafting smallish or European players as opposed to other potential power forwards or big Ds available, save for brain cramp Crisp that they could have drafted in the 7th round for all we know.

The picks that really annoyed me in this respect are:

1) our late 2nd (Lettonen) vs either power F Carrier (St-Louis wisely promptly traded up to pick him right after our pick) or Giant D Diaby from the Q

2) Crisp and Andrighetto in the 3rd (although I concede the latter could be a steal, but yet another smurf nevertheless) vs guys like Josh Hayden ( picked after us by the Hawks)

3) another smurf in the 4th round (Rewey...himself a smallish guy, it seems Timmins can't resist theseguys or what?), while hulking Hudson Fashing (picked by the Kings shortly after) was still available...

They had a chance to go all the way towards changing the small soft team image they have been carrying like a disease for decades, yet in my view they paid lip service to their critics with their 1st pick then went right back to their old smurfy Hab-its.

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07-16-2013, 06:54 AM
  #690
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the funny thing is that if Briere wasnt a local boy, we would have 0 UFA signing
The funny thing is that you insist on spamming this board with baseless opinions. I don't suppose that Briere's recent playoff success had anything to do with it. Of course I am just speculating....it isn't like Bergevin mentioned his PO success after the signing

You may have a point as he has also contacted fellow Quebecers such as Jagr and Brendan Morrow......heck, he even signed a local boy in George Parros....

Who needs to deal with facts when we can just make up our own? It saves time having to read material and the sources are easily quotable as they reside in our heads

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07-16-2013, 06:58 AM
  #691
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I also agree in great part, although I was slightly disappointed at the is year's draft.

This draft had two characteristics, plenty of local talent and talent with size, exactly what the Habs needed.

The Habs took a big swing at size with McCarron and I cannot agree more with that pick. But I sort of get the feeling that they put all their eggs in the same basket, and then went back to their old ways of drafting smallish or European players as opposed to other potential power forwards or big Ds available, save for brain cramp Crisp that they could have drafted in the 7th round for all we know.

The picks that really annoyed me in this respect are:

1) our late 2nd (Lettonen) vs either power F Carrier (St-Louis wisely promptly traded up to pick him right after our pick) or Giant D Diaby from the Q

2) Crisp and Andrighetto in the 3rd (although I concede the latter could be a steal, but yet another smurf nevertheless) vs guys like Josh Hayden ( picked after us by the Hawks)

3) another smurf in the 4th round (Rewey...himself a smallish guy, it seems Timmins can't resist theseguys or what?), while hulking Hudson Fashing (picked by the Kings shortly after) was still available...

They had a chance to go all the way towards changing the small soft team image they have been carrying like a disease for decades, yet in my view they paid lip service to their critics with their 1st pick then went right back to their old smurfy Hab-its.
It's all about balance...yeah, we drafted a few more small, skill players...we also got McCarron, de la Rose, and Crisp (while I too wanted Hayden, I loved the pick...think he's gonna surprise some folks and be a viable 3rd/4th liner who can slide to either, depending on need)...I think this draft combined with last year's is what's gonna make us alot stronger for years & years to come...

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07-16-2013, 07:04 AM
  #692
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I also agree in great part, although I was slightly disappointed at the is year's draft.

This draft had two characteristics, plenty of local talent and talent with size, exactly what the Habs needed.

The Habs took a big swing at size with McCarron and I cannot agree more with that pick. But I sort of get the feeling that they put all their eggs in the same basket, and then went back to their old ways of drafting smallish or European players as opposed to other potential power forwards or big Ds available, save for brain cramp Crisp that they could have drafted in the 7th round for all we know.

The picks that really annoyed me in this respect are:

1) our late 2nd (Lettonen) vs either power F Carrier (St-Louis wisely promptly traded up to pick him right after our pick) or Giant D Diaby from the Q

2) Crisp and Andrighetto in the 3rd (although I concede the latter could be a steal, but yet another smurf nevertheless) vs guys like Josh Hayden ( picked after us by the Hawks)

3) another smurf in the 4th round (Rewey...himself a smallish guy, it seems Timmins can't resist theseguys or what?), while hulking Hudson Fashing (picked by the Kings shortly after) was still available...

They had a chance to go all the way towards changing the small soft team image they have been carrying like a disease for decades, yet in my view they paid lip service to their critics with their 1st pick then went right back to their old smurfy Hab-its.
You have to remember that Timmins is VERY familiar with each of these prospects. It isn't like Hayden or Fasching were unknown to him. We have undeniable evidence that a man that knows more than anyone on this board believes that Crisp and Andrighetto are better NHL prospects than Hayden and Fasching are. I for one can live with that given Timmin's track record relative to other scouts.

As for Carrier....he is not a power forward by any stretch of the imagination.

Timmins took 3 big, physical forwards with his first five picks along with a goaltender and a small skilled forward. I would conclude that he paid much more than lip service to the effort of getting bigger.

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07-16-2013, 07:20 AM
  #693
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Morrow on the 3rd line With Galchenyuk and Desharnais? Sign me up.

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07-16-2013, 08:47 AM
  #694
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The point isn't whether or not we'll use the extra cap space wisely, the point is having the extra space.The bridge deal was really just having extra space for 1 year vs extra space for 5-8 years.

Any time you can have extra space is a plus as it gives you more flexibility. It doesn't mean it's going to help you. If you decide to give 4M to Gomez, then it ends up being pretty darn stupid, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get that room if possible.

It's an even lesser issue now because it's easier to create some room with the possibility of retaining salary during trades, but it's still a bonus to have it.
The point is having the extra cap space? For what though?

you think it's a bonus to just have available cap space? How exactly?

Again...plenty of teams around the NHL are handing out huge cash to their star players. The Habs currently have ONE player who makes more then 6M on the cap.

It's really not a problem...especially when you consider the cap will have gone up by the time Subban negotiates his next deal

Sorry for the Subban contract talk in a Morrow thread...but this obsession with Subban's next deal and the bridge contract he signed needs to end. It's completely inconsequential

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07-16-2013, 08:48 AM
  #695
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We are not going to sign Morrow or Jagr. What you see is what you get.

A team that is easy to play against and a very soft D corps.

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07-16-2013, 08:53 AM
  #696
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The point is having the extra cap space? For what though?

you think it's a bonus to just have available cap space? How exactly?

Again...plenty of teams around the NHL are handing out huge cash to their star players. The Habs currently have ONE player who makes more then 6M on the cap.

It's really not a problem...especially when you consider the cap will have gone up by the time Subban negotiates his next deal

Sorry for the Subban contract talk in a Morrow thread...but this obsession with Subban's next deal and the bridge contract he signed needs to end. It's completely inconsequential
the beauty with cap space (spent or available) is that it represent real dollars...

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07-16-2013, 08:54 AM
  #697
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We are not going to sign Morrow or Jagr. What you see is what you get.

A team that is easy to play against and a very soft D corps.
Chicago had a relatively soft D corps and a forward group that isn't very physical.....how did they do?

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07-16-2013, 08:56 AM
  #698
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Chicago had a relatively soft D corps and a forward group that isn't very physical.....how did they do?




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07-16-2013, 08:56 AM
  #699
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Jersey wants to dump Volchenkov for a reason.
Exactly, and it probably has to do with the contract more than his play, just like Briere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gusfring View Post
We are not going to sign Morrow or Jagr. What you see is what you get.

A team that is easy to play against and a very soft D corps.
I have gone back and read your last 100 posts here at HF, not one is positive. You only bring down the Habs and their management. My question to you is why ?
Why not just change teams ? Are you a Habs fan ?

This post is not meant to attack you ? Just very very curious.

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07-16-2013, 08:57 AM
  #700
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What Bergevin inherited cannot be fixed overnight.
There are some excellent building blocks for sure. With that said, anyone who thinks we can take the mess Gainey and Gauthier made and make them a legitimate Cup threat inside of 18 months is diliusional.
MB has done some great things that I like such as drafting Galchenyuk, changing
Gainey's dumb policy of "signing no one during the season" etc. he has done some not so great things such as signing DD to a contract when there was no pressure to do that at that time.
Are the Habs contenders? No. Are the playoff bound next season? Not sure. Do I have faith in MB and his staff? Damn right.

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