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Trade and Proposals Thread XXXVI: MacT, send more help!

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Old
07-11-2013, 04:43 PM
  #851
Bryanbryoil
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Stefan Matteau straight up for Hemsky?

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07-11-2013, 04:43 PM
  #852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
henrique had 16 pts in 42 games this season 0.38pt/g
gagner had 38 in 48 games 0.792pt/g

thats over double the output. they arent even comparable
Few things.

1) You didn't respond to the Henrique LW comment. Please give me a link or show statistics that have him as a LW. He's a C. 680 faceoffs taken last year.
2) Anyone can do a one year comparison....very dangerous to do so especially in a lockout shortened season. Similar to a comment I made earlier I guess Kunitz is way ahead of Datsyuk right?
3) How about addressing my comment on their best seasons? Henrique's best season is far and away better than Gagner's best season.
4) You didn't address their defensive games. Compare that too.

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07-11-2013, 04:44 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Why do people WANT to send Hemsky to New Jersey? That roster is god awful. Nothing appealing that they would give up.
I dont think anyone is expecting an appealing return for Hemsky anymore. Best thing we will get is cap space.

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07-11-2013, 04:46 PM
  #854
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Quote:
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I dont think anyone is expecting an appealing return for Hemsky anymore. Best thing we will get is cap space.
They're a team with tradeable bottom 6 players. Pick and choose the low hanging fruit.

Zubrus, Gionta, Steve Bernier, Carter, Tedenby... they would all be better (and come at a lower price tag) than Hemsky in a bottom 6 role.

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07-11-2013, 04:48 PM
  #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Only on HF Boards is Perron considered an "iffy" LW. 3rd highest career scoring LW under 25 in the NHL and that's with missing almost an entire season due to injury.
FYI: Sam Gagner is second among 23 and under C's in the NHL and you want to trade him for a guy who scored 16 points last year. See how these types of "stats" don't make any sense?

It's a risky trade that sees us trade a well established 2C for a guy who may never be a top-six forward. It's immediately detrimental and too risky for what could, at best, be a menial upgrade in our complete game in the future.

There are other, less expensive ways to do that.

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07-11-2013, 04:48 PM
  #856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Few things.

3) How about addressing my comment on their best seasons? Henrique's best season is far and away better than Gagner's best season.
NHL career high-
Gagner-49 points
Henrique-51 points

OHL-
Gagner-118 points
Henrique- 77 points

What exactly are you talking about?

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Old
07-11-2013, 04:49 PM
  #857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Stefan Matteau straight up for Hemsky?
I'd do this, no problem.

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07-11-2013, 04:49 PM
  #858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marincin28 View Post
I'd move Hemsky for Greene
Andy Greene would be an amazing return for Hemmer.

Without the whole Kovy-reactionary proposal, I think it's pretty certain NJ looks at Hemsky as an option.

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07-11-2013, 04:50 PM
  #859
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Chris Botta ‏@ChrisBottaNHL
Lamoriello on making more trades/signing more FAs this offseason: "There's more (cap) room. If there's something we can do, we will."

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07-11-2013, 04:50 PM
  #860
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Ales Hemsky+Nick Schultz for Steve Bernier+Andy Greene And yes, I'm delusional.

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07-11-2013, 04:50 PM
  #861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
FYI: Sam Gagner is second among 23 and under C's in the NHL and you want to trade him for a guy who scored 16 points last year.

It's a risky trade that sees us trade a well established 2C for a guy who may never be a top-six forward. It's immediately detrimental and too risky for what could, at best, be a menial upgrade in the future.
I'm trading him for a cheaper, younger, bigger, and better hockey player. He had 51 points in 74 games in 2012. 13 more in the playoffs.

Gagner has never broken 50 because he falls apart late in EVERY season...he doesn't have the drive or will to be a 50 point NHLer.

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07-11-2013, 04:54 PM
  #862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
I'm trading him for a cheaper, younger, bigger, and better hockey player. He had 51 points in 74 games in 2012. 13 more in the playoffs.

Gagner has never broken 50 because he falls apart late in EVERY season...he doesn't have the drive or will to be a 50 point NHLer.
Yeah, he hits 40 and just packs it in.

Good lord.

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07-11-2013, 04:54 PM
  #863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Few things.

1) You didn't respond to the Henrique LW comment. Please give me a link or show statistics that have him as a LW. He's a C. 680 faceoffs taken last year.
2) Anyone can do a one year comparison....very dangerous to do so especially in a lockout shortened season. Similar to a comment I made earlier I guess Kunitz is way ahead of Datsyuk right?
3) How about addressing my comment on their best seasons? Henrique's best season is far and away better than Gagner's best season.
4) You didn't address their defensive games. Compare that too.
1. my bad on the LW i didnt realize he took as many FO
2. Kunitz had 52pts in 48 1.08pt/g datsuk had 49 in 47 1.04pt/g that is a lot more comparable than .38 vs .79. not even in teh same realm
3. Henriques best season is 51pts piggy backing off Kovalchuk, gagners best season is 49pts playing with nillson and cogliano. Gagner has shown improvement every year while henrique has already regressed from his rookie year showing that his numbers were inflated. 5 assists in 42 games? thats ladislav smid numbers not #2 C numbers
4. show me the proof that henrique is a better defensive player? why do we want a guy with 5 assists to C a line with Eberle/hall/yak/perron? that makes no sense. if you want henrique to play behind gagner and rnh then maybe but to replace gagner your on crack dude.

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07-11-2013, 04:54 PM
  #864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Gagner is a small and skilled with zero defensive game.

Henrique is a 2-way forward who has shown the ability to play with elite players at hte junior and NHL level.

Henrique eclipsed 50 points last year. Has Sammy Sam ever done that? Didn't think so.
Henrique is a one hit wonder. He might be better than Gagner defensively but he's not a 50 point player

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07-11-2013, 04:55 PM
  #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
I'm trading him for a cheaper, younger, bigger, and better hockey player. He had 51 points in 74 games in 2012. 13 more in the playoffs.

Gagner has never broken 50 because he falls apart late in EVERY season...he doesn't have the drive or will to be a 50 point NHLer.
You don't watch him carefully enough if that's what you think.

I'd even go as far to say that Henrique's numbers dip this season factoring in today's events.

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07-11-2013, 04:56 PM
  #866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
I'm trading him for a cheaper, younger, bigger, and better hockey player. He had 51 points in 74 games in 2012. 13 more in the playoffs.

Gagner has never broken 50 because he falls apart late in EVERY season...he doesn't have the drive or will to be a 50 point NHLer.
Gagner's highest scoring season was his rookie year where he finished very strong.

Henrique piggybacked off of Kovalchuk and Parise that season. Gagner has never played with players of that caliber. Equating their offensive potential is a bit of a reach.


Last edited by s7ark: 07-11-2013 at 05:02 PM.
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07-11-2013, 04:56 PM
  #867
Jimmi Jenkins
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Can Ryan Carter play center and does he have any grit?

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07-11-2013, 04:57 PM
  #868
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piggybacking off Kovalchuk is too generic a statement.

You could make a case for any duo that one piggybacks off another.

Riddle me this...how many minutes did Henrique play with and without Kovalchuk? You threw out the piggybacking comment so im assuming you have some numbers to back that claiom

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07-11-2013, 04:58 PM
  #869
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i will bet my avatar for life that sam gagner hits 50pts before henrique does it again.

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07-11-2013, 04:58 PM
  #870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Henrique is a one hit wonder. He might be better than Gagner defensively but he's not a 50 point player
Well technically he is in that he scored 50 points once. Gagner will never be a 50 point player because he's only hit 49 and 47 points as highs. He simply lacks the will to score those few extra points. His Randian Objectivist rating is in the toilet compared to Henrique, who's probably a future John Galt Trophy winner.

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07-11-2013, 04:59 PM
  #871
Petro Points
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Originally Posted by backhandsauce View Post
Give them a first for Larsson if they are concerned about a first round pick next year. NJ has 7 NHL d-men and this point. Heck, throw in Hemsky.
Getting Larsson out of NJ would be a dream..

I would do Gagner + Hemsky + 1st
for Larsson + Josefson

Creates a hole up front but instantly makes our D top notch..

Klefbom-Larsson duo can man the blue line for years to come.

I believe NJ management is ready to give up on Josefson now and he should be available..

If not Larsson then Hemsky for Josefson straight up swap works as well.. He can push Gordon for #3C spot.

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07-11-2013, 04:59 PM
  #872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Few things.

1) You didn't respond to the Henrique LW comment. Please give me a link or show statistics that have him as a LW. He's a C. 680 faceoffs taken last year.
2) Anyone can do a one year comparison....very dangerous to do so especially in a lockout shortened season. Similar to a comment I made earlier I guess Kunitz is way ahead of Datsyuk right?
3) How about addressing my comment on their best seasons? Henrique's best season is far and away better than Gagner's best season.
4) You didn't address their defensive games. Compare that too.
ya anyone can do a one year comparison You're comparing one season to a consistent 40+ point player.
Gagner averages 73 games a season so he was on pace for 58 points. But then again he's a whopping 6 months older


Last edited by Homesick: 07-11-2013 at 05:04 PM.
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07-11-2013, 05:00 PM
  #873
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Honestly the Oilers will become a top 2 team in the NHL soon. Just wait until Yakupov, RNH start getting older,stronger. They will build huge chemistry with Eberle, Hall, Gagner. I mean if you look at just there young players who just made a jump in the NHL.

-Hall: Will become even better, as long as he is healthy. He will put up huge numbers.

-Eberle: He as well will put him huge numbers.

-Yakupov: Coming off of his 1st half season with them, He looked good. He didn't look to comfortable in the beginning but as soon as he got games in he was on track. They had him on the 3rd and 4th line as well, i know for a fact he didn't like that. But now he will get the nod as a 2nd liner or even crack in as a first liner.

-Gagner: Still young and good. If he stays healthy he will build tons of chemistry with these young guys, and put up good numbers.

-RNH: Again still very very young, He is a good 1st line center. As soon as he gets 100% healthy he will put HUGE numbers up. And he needs to put on some weight, Get bigger. Not to big but big enough to handle a 215 pound defensemen trying to beat him.

-J. Schultz: This could end up being the best D. pick up from the Oilers. Still young as well, he will become a very good top 2 D. He tore it up during the lockout in the AHL. And came to the NHL and did well.
_____________________________________

So in my opinion with just these guys, they look very good. Just give them 2-4 years when they bring in some more talent, and another top 4 defensemen. If Potter, Petry don't start progressing they need to be moved, and bring in a better D.

-They also have some great prospects. Nurse, Hartikainen, Lander, Zharkov, Moroz, Klefbom, Marincin, Pitlick.

-Some of these guys will get a look at the NHL next season or the next year.

-Don't be surprised to see Lander be a half season or full season in a Oiler uniform.

-Nurse will get sent back the OHL, to work on his weight etc. He will become a good shutdown, and pitch in offense defensemen.

-Marincin, Could get a few games this upcoming season. He looks really good and has tons of size.

-Klefbom: Edmonton wants him in the NHL this upcoming season, im sure he will get a few games, see how he does and if he needs some work on the N.A style of game. He will play in the AHL.

-Hartikainen: Someone told me he is going overseas. But he is a good power forward.
_________________________________

Well, I see the Edmonton Oilers being a Stanley Cup contending team in 3 years. That's only IF they work a bit more on the back end. And get another good 3rd line gritty player that can put up numbers. In 2014-15 season they will make a good run in the playoffs. Maybe going to the 2nd round, or getting knocked out in the 3rd round. And next upcoming season, I see it has a close call. But i will predict that they make the playoffs, But get knocked out in the 1st round.

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07-11-2013, 05:00 PM
  #874
Trafalgar Law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Can Ryan Carter play center and does he have any grit?
Yes for both, I'd prefer Steve Bernier though.

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07-11-2013, 05:00 PM
  #875
SK13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
I'm trading him for a cheaper, younger, bigger, and better hockey player. He had 51 points in 74 games in 2012. 13 more in the playoffs.

Gagner has never broken 50 because he falls apart late in EVERY season...he doesn't have the drive or will to be a 50 point NHLer.
Just wow. Just when I think I've seen the wrongest, most ass-backwards stuff on this board, someone comes and blow me away.

First of all, not buying Henrique's rookie year as an accurate measure of his ability. He shot the lights out for 3 months and has never been the same offensive producer since. The majority of his career has been at a sub 30 point pace. At no point in his career did he ever project to be a top-six scorer. He may be one day, but there's more risk in that than there is in a guy who's done it for five straight years.

Then we have Sam not breaking 50 points. The whopping 2 point difference between Sam's rookie year and Henrique's rookie year is massive, I'm sure. Let's ignore than Sam just hit a 60 point pace, too.

Finally, Sam falling apart at the end of the year? That's an opposite day statement. He fell off this year, but he typically scores most of his points (and usually towards a PPG) in the last stretch of the season. At least three of his five seasons have broken down that way.

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