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Flames Sign Mikael Backlund to a 2-year, $1.5M AAV deal.

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Old
07-10-2013, 09:54 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Completely different circumstances. Defending Sutter saying he's better at contract signings than Feaster is laughable.
Asking for something, getting an answer you don't like and then changing the rules is laughable. I didn't say once that sutter was better. You said feaster is infinitely better, which is wrong. You asked for one good value signing, I gave 2 now it depends on circumstance. A contract signed is a contract signed. You also defended feaster on Tanguay and babchuk based on circumstance as well. What are the circumstances and rules for this game? Is there a standard or is it just "circumstance"?

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07-10-2013, 10:47 PM
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Awesome to have Backlund around for next season.

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07-10-2013, 10:55 PM
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It's pretty crazy that even on a real positive, like getting a young higher skill guy who looks like the corner has been turned by the looks of this past season, signed for two years on fourth line money... People still manage to find something to bicker or ***** about lol.

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07-10-2013, 11:05 PM
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It's pretty crazy that even on a real positive, like getting a young higher skill guy who looks like the corner has been turned by the looks of this past season, signed for two years on fourth line money... People still manage to find something to bicker or ***** about lol.
Talking about the history of the Flames organization with a contrast to contemporary events on the Flames board, during the off season to boot, seems appropriate enough.

Otherwise we could sit back and watch the paint dry?

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07-10-2013, 11:05 PM
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This is what I think too

No.

With Brodie we have 2 options. 3 years or less, or 8 years IMO.

4+ years makes him a UFA at the end of his deal, so I would prefer 3 for that reason but if he is going to be a UFA at the end of his deal we might as well lock him up as long as possible.
but you think signing him for 8 years is reasonable....right..

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07-10-2013, 11:12 PM
  #56
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but you think signing him for 8 years is reasonable....right..
8 years is highly unlikely in my mind. For the fact that he has yet to hit his peak in terms of being an NHL player. He has solidified the fact he can play at a good level in the NHL but he has to yet solidify that he is able to handle the 28 minute nights all season long and play well. Also wouldn't mind seeing a more complete game, possibly a little more offense.

A 2-3 year contract gives him room to grow and be paid appropriately when that growth takes place

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07-10-2013, 11:14 PM
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Asking for something, getting an answer you don't like and then changing the rules is laughable. I didn't say once that sutter was better. You said feaster is infinitely better, which is wrong. You asked for one good value signing, I gave 2 now it depends on circumstance. A contract signed is a contract signed. You also defended feaster on Tanguay and babchuk based on circumstance as well. What are the circumstances and rules for this game? Is there a standard or is it just "circumstance"?
Okay

Are you that green, lets play by the rules of the NHL. A career low point total of 37 points got Tanguay a million dollar prove that your still an NHL player contract. The following season he recorded 69 points in 79 games. Feaster got better value than Sutter would of gave him following that season, hopefully the concept of why he got a raise isn't lost on you. Jay gave him a little more term to get a more flexible cap hit. I'm not making rules based on circumstance, I'm following the rules of real life in which it may as well of been two different Tanguay's were talking about. If you can't use your common logic and need to grasp at straws for the sake of winning an argument then I don't know what to say to you. Everyone knows Feaster is infinitely better at contract signings, it isn't just me. How many times were Sutter's teams associated with the term 'cap hell' because of the big, bloated contracts he handed out to under performing vets. Since day 1, Feaster has said multiple times the 'term cap' flexibility. You can twist whatever examples you want, but the fact is its not even an argument and its silly to try and justify otherwise.


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07-10-2013, 11:37 PM
  #58
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but you think signing him for 8 years is reasonable....right..
did you miss the part where I said I preferred a 3 year deal?

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07-11-2013, 12:02 AM
  #59
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Talking about the history of the Flames organization with a contrast to contemporary events on the Flames board, during the off season to boot, seems appropriate enough.

Otherwise we could sit back and watch the paint dry?
I think we can just sit back, and pat ourselves on the back on this one lol.
Flames on an upswing this off-season in my book; everything has gone well for me. Got rid of some guys who didn't want to be here, had a top 5 draft (like not top 5 pick, but in my opinion Calgary would be a team that came out in the top 5 this year, solid picks), didn't go nuts in FA, got guys on decent deals, brought in some guys that want to be here... got bigger and faster; ****, a win this off-season for me.
Right way to start a rebuild.

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07-11-2013, 12:25 AM
  #60
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Okay

Are you that green, lets play by the rules of the NHL. A career low point total of 37 points got Tanguay a million dollar prove that your still an NHL player contract. The following season he recorded 69 points in 79 games. Feaster got better value than Sutter would of gave him following that season, hopefully the concept of why he got a raise isn't lost on you. Jay gave him a little more term to get a more flexible cap hit. I'm not making rules based on circumstance, I'm following the rules of real life in which it may as well of been two different Tanguay's were talking about. If you can't use your common logic and need to grasp at straws for the sake of winning an argument then I don't know what to say to you. Everyone knows Feaster is infinitely better at contract signings, it isn't just me. How many times were Sutter's teams associated with the term 'cap hell' because of the big, bloated contracts he handed out to under performing vets. Since day 1, Feaster has said multiple times the 'term cap' flexibility. You can twist whatever examples you want, but the fact is its not even an argument and its silly to try and justify otherwise.

Fully aware of why he got a raise. Because sutter signed a great contract on a player and it worked out. 69 points for a million isn't good value? Is a million good value for 37 points? How many 37 point players make a million? Your points are based on hypotheticals. "Feaster signed him for less than sutter would've" is a guess. You have no idea. "Sutter would've signed glencross for 4 million" is another guess. I'm stating facts, you are the only one twisting facts to try to augment an argument based purely on opinion. He is not in any way "infinitely" better than Sutter at signing contracts.

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07-11-2013, 12:39 AM
  #61
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I think the best way to look at it is to compare it to signings in the same year, as a percentage of the cap in the same year, because otherwise you have to factor in a different market, a depreciation/appreciation of product, as well as different economic parameters (salary cap).

So was Iggy a good signing, relative to the signings during 2005 or whenever it was? Was Kipper, Borque, Glencross and whoever? Quantify it, then do the same for Feaster's signings. Its the only way to find out that I can see

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07-11-2013, 12:47 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Volica View Post
It's pretty crazy that even on a real positive, like getting a young higher skill guy who looks like the corner has been turned by the looks of this past season, signed for two years on fourth line money... People still manage to find something to bicker or ***** about lol.
I couldn't agree more. This is a great deal and is offseason has been a step in the right direction.

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07-11-2013, 01:13 AM
  #63
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I think the best way to look at it is to compare it to signings in the same year, as a percentage of the cap in the same year, because otherwise you have to factor in a different market, a depreciation/appreciation of product, as well as different economic parameters (salary cap).

So was Iggy a good signing, relative to the signings during 2005 or whenever it was? Was Kipper, Borque, Glencross and whoever? Quantify it, then do the same for Feaster's signings. Its the only way to find out that I can see
Both Iginla and Regehr were regarded to have signed for much less than what they could have gotten on the UFA market. With Kiprusoff, Sutter got creative, signing one of the first longterm, front loaded contracts to decrease the cap hit. Most people also thought Bouwmeester would have easily gotten a 7m+ deal had he made it to unrestricted free agency. Langkow was signed to a market rate deal, while Phanuef was a product of the overpaying for potential a lot of highly regarded players coming off of ELC's were getting.

So in that sense, a lot of the big deals Sutter did negotiate were looked upon very favorably when they were signed.

With regards to contract signings, both Sutter and Feaster are more or less equal. One also needs to take into account, the context of certain signings. Sutter obviously has a bigger pool of examples to draw from because he was GM for a lot longer. But more importantly, a lot of his contracts were negotiated on the basis the Flames were contenders; where one big star might put the team over the top. In a rebuild situation moving forward, Feaster obviously doesn't have to deal with that.

Sutter had his Zyuzin's, Eriksson's, Primeau's, and Vandermeers. Feaster on the other hand, has had Sarich and Babchuk. I have no doubt that if Feaster remains GM for as long as Sutter held the reins, he'll easily match the number of bad contracts. Wideman in particular stands out.

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07-11-2013, 01:14 AM
  #64
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I think we can just sit back, and pat ourselves on the back on this one lol.
Flames on an upswing this off-season in my book; everything has gone well for me. Got rid of some guys who didn't want to be here, had a top 5 draft (like not top 5 pick, but in my opinion Calgary would be a team that came out in the top 5 this year, solid picks), didn't go nuts in FA, got guys on decent deals, brought in some guys that want to be here... got bigger and faster; ****, a win this off-season for me.
Right way to start a rebuild.
Completely agree. This is the most excited I've been during an off-season ever. For me, it's like going to a movie which is an adaptation of a book I like and not coming out fuming at the choices of those in charge of the movie. A rare treat.

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07-11-2013, 02:12 AM
  #65
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Fully aware of why he got a raise. Because sutter signed a great contract on a player and it worked out. 69 points for a million isn't good value? Is a million good value for 37 points? How many 37 point players make a million? Your points are based on hypotheticals. "Feaster signed him for less than sutter would've" is a guess. You have no idea. "Sutter would've signed glencross for 4 million" is another guess. I'm stating facts, you are the only one twisting facts to try to augment an argument based purely on opinion. He is not in any way "infinitely" better than Sutter at signing contracts.
Do you know why Sutter gave him a million dollar contract? It was because of his 37 point season! No kidding a million is good value for 69 points, and that is why he got a significant raise FOLLOWING that season. The fact is every player that Sutter identified as our core, he locked up long term with a very heavy cap hit. The only players that got bargain deals were his reclamation projects like Tangs (the second time around), Amonte, Freisen, Nolan, and Bert, none of whom were here long term.

Wanna know the first contract that Sutter gave Tangs, it was a 3 year 5.25 million dollar cap hit, what a bargain, see I can play to. Iginla, Kipper, Regehr, Tanguay, Langkow, Stajan, Dion, Phaneuf, Jbo, all hit the lotto under Sutter and for many years. Feaster is extremely cap conscious in comparison and never handcuffs himself against the cap to the point where we can't dress a full lineup at the end of a season. Sutter did many great things for the Flames and I will never forget that but saying he was a better contract negotiator than Feaster is flat out hysterical. Part of the reason Feaster was brought in as the AGM was to assist Sutter in contract signings because Sutter was so poor at it. My points may be hypothetical to you, but I'm going by a history of patterns that I have a very vivid recollection of. Sutter had a well known reputation in the NHL for handing out overpriced contracts, a large reason he was fired, it was common knowledge and he was heavily criticized for it, it is also something Feaster does not have.

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07-11-2013, 02:20 AM
  #66
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Both Iginla and Regehr were regarded to have signed for much less than what they could have gotten on the UFA market. With Kiprusoff, Sutter got creative, signing one of the first longterm, front loaded contracts to decrease the cap hit. Most people also thought Bouwmeester would have easily gotten a 7m+ deal had he made it to unrestricted free agency. Langkow was signed to a market rate deal, while Phanuef was a product of the overpaying for potential a lot of highly regarded players coming off of ELC's were getting.

So in that sense, a lot of the big deals Sutter did negotiate were looked upon very favorably when they were signed.

With regards to contract signings, both Sutter and Feaster are more or less equal. One also needs to take into account, the context of certain signings. Sutter obviously has a bigger pool of examples to draw from because he was GM for a lot longer. But more importantly, a lot of his contracts were negotiated on the basis the Flames were contenders; where one big star might put the team over the top. In a rebuild situation moving forward, Feaster obviously doesn't have to deal with that.

Sutter had his Zyuzin's, Eriksson's, Primeau's, and Vandermeers. Feaster on the other hand, has had Sarich and Babchuk. I have no doubt that if Feaster remains GM for as long as Sutter held the reins, he'll easily match the number of bad contracts. Wideman in particular stands out.
Iginla's, Regehr's, and Kippers deals were the only market value contracts IMO. Every other one was poor in comparison to the production/value ratio. You get judged on the end result, not at the time of when the deals were struck. This was Sutter's weakest area as a GM IMO. Feaster for all his mishaps he's made to date, contracts is probably his best strength.

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07-11-2013, 03:09 AM
  #67
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Iginla's, Regehr's, and Kippers deals were the only market value contracts IMO. Every other one was poor in comparison to the production/value ratio. You get judged on the end result, not at the time of when the deals were struck. This was Sutter's weakest area as a GM IMO. Feaster for all his mishaps he's made to date, contracts is probably his best strength.
Well, if you're going to judge the success of a contract based on the end result, you have to wait until the contracts over before making a statement, right?

Feaster's signed 3 players to longterm deals, Hudler (4M x 4yrs), Wideman (5.25M x 5yrs) and Tanguay (3.5M x 5yrs). One of those contracts has already been traded away, after management and no small number of fans deemed it a failure. The jury's still out on the other two.

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07-11-2013, 04:49 AM
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Completely agree. This is the most excited I've been during an off-season ever. For me, it's like going to a movie which is an adaptation of a book I like and not coming out fuming at the choices of those in charge of the movie. A rare treat.
That is actually an unusually accurate analogy for this off-season.

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07-11-2013, 09:31 AM
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As a big Mikael Backlund fan I think this is a great deal for us. Backs seems to genuinely love it here and I hope he will rise to the occasion during these two upcoming seasons. I can honestly see him earning a letter on this team. If only he can stay healthy(and perhaps work on his faceoffs a bit too).

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07-11-2013, 09:34 AM
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Do you know why Sutter gave him a million dollar contract? It was because of his 37 point season! No kidding a million is good value for 69 points, and that is why he got a significant raise FOLLOWING that season. The fact is every player that Sutter identified as our core, he locked up long term with a very heavy cap hit. The only players that got bargain deals were his reclamation projects like Tangs (the second time around), Amonte, Freisen, Nolan, and Bert, none of whom were here long term.

Wanna know the first contract that Sutter gave Tangs, it was a 3 year 5.25 million dollar cap hit, what a bargain, see I can play to. Iginla, Kipper, Regehr, Tanguay, Langkow, Stajan, Dion, Phaneuf, Jbo, all hit the lotto under Sutter and for many years. Feaster is extremely cap conscious in comparison and never handcuffs himself against the cap to the point where we can't dress a full lineup at the end of a season. Sutter did many great things for the Flames and I will never forget that but saying he was a better contract negotiator than Feaster is flat out hysterical. Part of the reason Feaster was brought in as the AGM was to assist Sutter in contract signings because Sutter was so poor at it. My points may be hypothetical to you, but I'm going by a history of patterns that I have a very vivid recollection of. Sutter had a well known reputation in the NHL for handing out overpriced contracts, a large reason he was fired, it was common knowledge and he was heavily criticized for it, it is also something Feaster does not have.
My god that's a bad argument. Of the 9 horrible contracts you pointed out that "won the lottery" with Sutter, 3 got traded for 1st round picks on that same contract. Why would people give away 1st's for these terrible contracts? Also since you keep going back to Tanguay, how many 37 point players get a 1 million dollar contract? I'm sure there are some, but not many. (He's also one of the guys that got a first, while on that terrible contract you just specifically pointed out as bad)

It's obvious that your mind is made up, which is great. I would just like to be enlightened of all these amazing contracts that feaster has signed. I see one but I'd love to know of the rest. I want to agree that the current gm is good at contracts, I just don't see any proof. I do agree with your point that he's never put us in "cap hell" or "cap jail", but as a fan I'm a little more inclined to cheer for success rather than cap room.

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07-11-2013, 10:40 AM
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Excited, probably going to get a Backlund jersey now

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07-11-2013, 10:51 AM
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Excited, probably going to get a Backlund jersey now
I think I'm going to see how this season goes going forward, and get a new jersey. I'll decide on the player once I see how guys perform. Time to retire signed Iginla. Out with the old!

Now would be a good time for the Flames to rebrand, if ever.

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07-11-2013, 10:57 AM
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Well, if you're going to judge the success of a contract based on the end result, you have to wait until the contracts over before making a statement, right?

Feaster's signed 3 players to longterm deals, Hudler (4M x 4yrs), Wideman (5.25M x 5yrs) and Tanguay (3.5M x 5yrs). One of those contracts has already been traded away, after management and no small number of fans deemed it a failure. The jury's still out on the other two.
Fair enough. However, Tanguay wasn't moved because he was under performing by his contract's standards. I would argue in fact that he was able to be moved because his contract IS good value for the production he provides. Tanguay was traded because he has piss poor attitude, and if his contract was not good value then the only way we would of got him off this team would of been to buy him out. Hudler and Wideman's contracts, you are right the jury is still out on them, but as of now, I would not say they are overpaid. We signed them in FA and that was basically the going rate for players that provide what they do.

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My god that's a bad argument. Of the 9 horrible contracts you pointed out that "won the lottery" with Sutter, 3 got traded for 1st round picks on that same contract. Why would people give away 1st's for these terrible contracts? Also since you keep going back to Tanguay, how many 37 point players get a 1 million dollar contract? I'm sure there are some, but not many. (He's also one of the guys that got a first, while on that terrible contract you just specifically pointed out as bad)

It's obvious that your mind is made up, which is great. I would just like to be enlightened of all these amazing contracts that feaster has signed. I see one but I'd love to know of the rest. I want to agree that the current gm is good at contracts, I just don't see any proof. I do agree with your point that he's never put us in "cap hell" or "cap jail", but as a fan I'm a little more inclined to cheer for success rather than cap room.
One player is a future HOF, he was getting a 1st no matter what. And Jbo was very challenging to move and it almost cost us getting a 1st (it did most likely cost us getting Rattie) because we refused to retain any salary. Look I'm not actually all that high on Feaster in general and I wouldn't be sad at all if he was let go. But he has done a decent job this offseason and yes, my mind is made up because I feel there is overwhelming evidence to support that Darryl was well below average at contract signings, I think it was a HUGE reason why he was fired. I'm not saying that Feaster is amazing at getting guys signed, but I feel it is the area he is best at because he has been able to get some value signings from core players at discounts which was something Sutter didn't do other than signing his reclamation projects.

Anyways, nice chatting with you, no hard feelings, til next time!

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07-11-2013, 10:59 AM
  #74
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I think I'm going to see how this season goes going forward, and get a new jersey. I'll decide on the player once I see how guys perform. Time to retire signed Iginla. Out with the old!

Now would be a good time for the Flames to rebrand, if ever.
The next one I'm getting is totally getting my man crush, Sean Monahan.

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07-11-2013, 11:07 AM
  #75
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did you miss the part where I said I preferred a 3 year deal?
Do you think proposing 8 years as the alternative to that is more realistic than my guess? If so....yikes.

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