HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Calgary Flames
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Flames Sign Mikael Backlund to a 2-year, $1.5M AAV deal.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-11-2013, 05:20 PM
  #101
MarkGio
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,775
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wflames View Post
On the other hand, should he be paid the same as other defencemen with his numbers who are older? Andrew Ference put up one fewer point than Brodie... so $4M/season?

That's a separate issue. I think the key is figuring out what we expect of him, and evaluating it after the fact. Kind if makes the discussion no longer applicable to evaluating Backlund's contract at this juncture.
Like I said, there's other things involved than just points. But unfortunately Brodie has no leverage, whereas Ference had potentially 29 other interested clubs, so the economics are different.

But yes, I believe someone who puts up the exact same numbers (hits, points, take aways, etc.) should make the same money.

MarkGio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 05:24 PM
  #102
MarkGio
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,775
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
Who's expecting that of him? And what are the indicators that it will happen? If you have a young guy, you're paying for potential upside, but you do have past scoring numbers as a way of saying "this is where you fit amongst your peers, therefore this is what we'd like to offer you". If you have an older guy, you're paying for either presumed maintenance of ability, or acceptance of downside. With a guy like Stajan, for example, he was given beautiful offensive minutes in Toronto, and it showed in his numbers. A GM doing the right thing should've looked at it and said "looks like he got some very choice minutes, and is not likely to repeat those numbers, therefore x contract" rather than "LOL HAVE SOME MONEY, NEW FIRST LINE CENTRE".
His GM could be expecting anything. And at least my methodology had indicators (points), but you're saying its flawed....?

I believe someone should make their wages based on what they've done, not what they promise to do. Otherwise McKinnon should have a Crosby-like contract.

Take Cervenka for example. It was foolish to think he was worth 3.25 million. He never played a game in his life and we found out pretty quick he wasn't NHL calibre. Meanwhile Stajan has shown with consistent history to be a two-way top 6 centre with the ability to put up 40-50 pts.

MarkGio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 05:32 PM
  #103
Anglesmith
Global Moderator
Y'no like wadda guy
 
Anglesmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,816
vCash: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
His GM could be expecting anything. And at least my methodology had indicators (points), but you're saying its flawed....?

I believe someone should make their wages based on what they've done, not what they promise to do. Otherwise McKinnon should have a Crosby-like contract.

Take Cervenka for example. It was foolish to think he was worth 3.25 million. He never played a game in his life and we found out pretty quick he wasn't NHL calibre. Meanwhile Stajan has shown with consistent history to be a two-way top 6 centre with the ability to put up 40-50 pts.
We never actually paid Cervenka that money, though. He probably only earned entry-level money this year, given everything else was in bonuses which I doubt he achieved. But what you're saying is that Ville Leino's contract, for instance, was a good idea. I agree with the strategy that you should always pay for what you're expecting where applicable, but it's such a gross oversimplification that it's more of an ideology.

Anglesmith is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 05:47 PM
  #104
MarkGio
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,775
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wflames View Post
We never actually paid Cervenka that money, though. He probably only earned entry-level money this year, given everything else was in bonuses which I doubt he achieved. But what you're saying is that Ville Leino's contract, for instance, was a good idea. I agree with the strategy that you should always pay for what you're expecting where applicable, but it's such a gross oversimplification that it's more of an ideology.
People fail to meet expectations, they cannot change their history however. I'd argue that expectations are based on their history.

MarkGio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 07:27 PM
  #105
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,206
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
His GM could be expecting anything. And at least my methodology had indicators (points), but you're saying its flawed....?

I believe someone should make their wages based on what they've done, not what they promise to do. Otherwise McKinnon should have a Crosby-like contract.

Take Cervenka for example. It was foolish to think he was worth 3.25 million. He never played a game in his life and we found out pretty quick he wasn't NHL calibre. Meanwhile Stajan has shown with consistent history to be a two-way top 6 centre with the ability to put up 40-50 pts.
No one paid him that kind of money he only made 900K.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 10:21 PM
  #106
Padlock
Registered User
 
Padlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 417
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
One player is a future HOF, he was getting a 1st no matter what. And Jbo was very challenging to move and it almost cost us getting a 1st (it did most likely cost us getting Rattie) because we refused to retain any salary. Look I'm not actually all that high on Feaster in general and I wouldn't be sad at all if he was let go. But he has done a decent job this offseason and yes, my mind is made up because I feel there is overwhelming evidence to support that Darryl was well below average at contract signings, I think it was a HUGE reason why he was fired. I'm not saying that Feaster is amazing at getting guys signed, but I feel it is the area he is best at because he has been able to get some value signings from core players at discounts which was something Sutter didn't do other than signing his reclamation projects.

Anyways, nice chatting with you, no hard feelings, til next time!
Agreed, and apologize if I came off as a d*** in any way. I'm bored, it's offseason and I like to have discussions about the Flames with people of the same and differing viewpoints! Cheers to you and everyone on this board as we're all in the same boat, looking for anything hockey to give us our fix

Padlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-12-2013, 11:43 AM
  #107
SmellOfVictory
Registered User
 
SmellOfVictory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,279
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
His GM could be expecting anything. And at least my methodology had indicators (points), but you're saying its flawed....?

I believe someone should make their wages based on what they've done, not what they promise to do. Otherwise McKinnon should have a Crosby-like contract.

Take Cervenka for example. It was foolish to think he was worth 3.25 million. He never played a game in his life and we found out pretty quick he wasn't NHL calibre. Meanwhile Stajan has shown with consistent history to be a two-way top 6 centre with the ability to put up 40-50 pts.
I'm saying you pay them based on expectations, which would be partially based on what they've done. But also based on things like age, previous playing circumstances, etc.

SmellOfVictory is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:10 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.