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Mats Zuccarello Re-signs (1 year, $1.15M)

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07-20-2013, 10:42 AM
  #301
Tawnos
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The Rangers didn't make a mistake. That's simply a foolish response. If the Rangers don't have enough cap room for him, he'll be traded for future assets. Maybe not much, but who cares? They didn't give up any assets to acquire him in the first place.

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07-20-2013, 10:44 AM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
There's also the Stepan situation with the Rangers having only 3.3M in cap space before any trades/buried contracts, If we give Zucc 1.5-2M, that leaves only 1.8-2M before anything happens for Stepan.. IMO he's going to get at least 3.5
Learn about the summer cap and think about roster size in the regular season. Then think about your whole post again.

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07-20-2013, 10:46 AM
  #303
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I think the Euro agent gets on some people's nerves but from what I understand it is Don Meehan that is representing Zooks. The same agency that represents Lundy and other Rangers.

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07-20-2013, 10:50 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Learn about the summer cap and think about roster size in the regular season. Then think about your whole post again.
1. I know the summer cap allows us to spend more.

2. The roster size doesn't mean anything if no one is willing to take the players we have that we would give up in trades.

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07-20-2013, 10:55 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
1. I know the summer cap allows us to spend more.

2. The roster size doesn't mean anything if no one is willing to take the players we have that we would give up in trades.
1. Then you understand we can defer those decisions until October and possibly later if anyone ends up on LTIR. We have more than $7m in summer space to spend on these two guys.

2. Burying Johnson, Powe and Asham give us about $2.5m to spend. That leaves us with $5.8m available for Stepan and Zuccarello. They really shouldn't cost more than that.

In other words, your post was unnecessarily alarmist.

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07-20-2013, 10:59 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
1. Then you understand we can defer those decisions until October and possibly later if anyone ends up on LTIR. We have more than $7m in summer space to spend on these two guys.

2. Burying Johnson, Powe and Asham give us about $2.5m to spend. That leaves us with $5.8m available for Stepan and Zuccarello. They really shouldn't cost more than that.

In other words, your post was unnecessarily alarmist.
I'd rather not go into the season with no cap space at all to work with if something comes up.

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07-20-2013, 11:00 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
1. I know the summer cap allows us to spend more.

2. The roster size doesn't mean anything if no one is willing to take the players we have that we would give up in trades.
If nobody is willing to take them it is probably because they do not produce. Those are the kind of players we have too many of and who we waste too much money on. More reason why we should keep a guy that actually produces .5ppg in 3rd line minutes (14-15 per game) on what is not considered a large contract.

For comparison sake Richards will make around 9 mill next season. Lets say Zooks gets 44 points for his 1.7 mill. How many points will it take Richards to earn his 9 mill in comparison?

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07-20-2013, 11:05 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
If nobody is willing to take them it is probably because they do not produce. Those are the kind of players we have too many of and who we waste too much money on. More reason why we should keep a guy that actually produces .5ppg in 3rd line minutes (14-15 per game) on what is not considered a large contract.

For comparison sake Richards will make around 9 mill next season. Lets say Zooks gets 44 points for his 1.7 mill. How many points will it take Richards to earn his 9 mill in comparison?
I have my reservations that Zucc can actually do it over a full season. I'd like to see him do it at least once before saying he could score 40-50 points.. Rangers have alot of potential" already. We kinda more players who are sure to put up points.

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07-20-2013, 11:06 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I'd rather not go into the season with no cap space at all to work with if something comes up.
We'd all rather that. But if we do, we do. We wouldn't be the first and we aren't going to need to ice a short roster like that Flames did a couple of years ago.

Besides, "right up against the Cap" would include a 13th forward and a 7th defensman. We have flexibility.

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07-20-2013, 11:10 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
The Rangers didn't make a mistake. That's simply a foolish response. If the Rangers don't have enough cap room for him, he'll be traded for future assets. Maybe not much, but who cares? They didn't give up any assets to acquire him in the first place.
Foolish response? Why don't you address me directly?

Other teams decided salary arbitration wasn't worth the hassle. Benoit Pouliot. Tyler Kennedy from 2011. TB decided to not re-sign Pouliot after he wasn't tendered. Pouliot got a 1 year deal for $1.3M. Zuccarello is worth more than what Pouliot makes? Kennedy was re-signed after Pittsburgh didn't tender him.

Sather gave Zuccarello all of the leverage. Sather likes to have leverage. The Rangers should have gone down the same path like Pitt did w/Kennedy. If they couldn't get a deal done by July 5th at noon,both sides can go in different directions or trade his rights before July 2 like Minnesota did with Falk. Fehr discussed walk-away rights. The NHLPA wanted to eliminate it but it was revised. Fehr said if you don't want to pay the player with arbitration rights,don't tender him. Thats the new walk-away in the NHL.

I'm not surprised you can't see that.

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07-20-2013, 11:14 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I have my reservations that Zucc can actually do it over a full season. I'd like to see him do it at least once before saying he could score 40-50 points.. Rangers have alot of potential" already. We kinda more players who are sure to put up points.
You are 100% entitled to your reservations about the unknown but all I can go by is his actual previous history. In 80 career regular season and playoff NHL games he has produced 41 points while averaging 14-15 minutes per game.

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07-20-2013, 11:19 AM
  #312
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RB, you constantly respond to people without "addressing them directly" so don't come at me with that crap.

It's never a mistake to extend a QO to a player you'd like to keep, arbitration or not. Nor is it a mistake to make a business decision to let go of a player you think is going to get too big of an arb award. Neither are mistakes.

Plus, I don't see how you can call it a mistake before we've seen the award itself. Maybe Sather is betting that it will be less that Zuccarello is asking for. And he might be right. It's way too early to pass judgment on this.

And you know what? Beyond that, if the award forces moves to be made, such as trading Pyatt, couldn't it easily be said that Sather chose to have Zuccarello over Pyatt on the roster? I'd be surprised it he was unaware of what the risks were in this scenario.


Last edited by Tawnos: 07-20-2013 at 11:26 AM.
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07-20-2013, 11:46 AM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
You are 100% entitled to your reservations about the unknown but all I can go by is his actual previous history. In 80 career regular season and playoff NHL games he has produced 41 points while averaging 14-15 minutes per game.
80 career regular season games over 3 seasons.You keep forgetting that part.Lets see him play an entire full season first before we call him a 40-50 point player.

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07-20-2013, 11:49 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by mrmovies779 View Post
80 career regular season games over 3 seasons.You keep forgetting that part.Lets see him play an entire full season first before we call him a 40-50 point player.
Lets see him play an entire season before saying he can not score 40-50 points. All evidence so far suggests that he does score at that pace. With regular playing time that could go up.

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07-20-2013, 04:54 PM
  #315
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So the argument against zucc being brought back is that he has a .5 ppg, but its over 3 years now?
Haha, come on! If anything its proof of being able to adopt, and showing up when it counts.
Using the idea of him being unproven in a 82 game series against this guy is as dumb as it gets. He has showed up every single time he has been called upon.
Without him the team would probably not have made it to the post season this year, and yes the whole team sucked, but he was the second most successful player in the POs.

There is no possible reason to think he will not keep that up in a 82 game season.

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07-20-2013, 05:37 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
RB, you constantly respond to people without "addressing them directly" so don't come at me with that crap.

It's never a mistake to extend a QO to a player you'd like to keep, arbitration or not. Nor is it a mistake to make a business decision to let go of a player you think is going to get too big of an arb award. Neither are mistakes.

Plus, I don't see how you can call it a mistake before we've seen the award itself. Maybe Sather is betting that it will be less that Zuccarello is asking for. And he might be right. It's way too early to pass judgment on this.

And you know what? Beyond that, if the award forces moves to be made, such as trading Pyatt, couldn't it easily be said that Sather chose to have Zuccarello over Pyatt on the roster? I'd be surprised it he was unaware of what the risks were in this scenario.
Tawos, You should drop it - foolish comment was unprovoked and uncalled for.

Otherwise, I agree with your position that qualifying Zuke made sense by the organization. He is a top 6 material as well as a PP and shoot out specialist, which is clearly better than other guys who were not qualified. And in terms of his salary - if you compare his say $1.7 m contract to the likes of Duby or Anisimov - Zuke's is a better deal especially if you remember Hagelin's contract "justification" about inflation of old cap to the current. If he gets a two year deal $1.8 m or less it a great deal for the Rangers and a fair one for Zuke.

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07-20-2013, 06:02 PM
  #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
So the argument against zucc being brought back is that he has a .5 ppg, but its over 3 years now?
Haha, come on! If anything its proof of being able to adopt, and showing up when it counts.
Using the idea of him being unproven in a 82 game series against this guy is as dumb as it gets. He has showed up every single time he has been called upon.
Without him the team would probably not have made it to the post season this year, and yes the whole team sucked, but he was the second most successful player in the POs.

There is no possible reason to think he will not keep that up in a 82 game season.
Posts like these are what turns people off from Zuc


Holy Overrating Batman

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07-20-2013, 06:22 PM
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmovies779 View Post
Posts like these are what turns people off from Zuc


Holy Overrating Batman
So saying that he didnt get a chance to play 82 games, and that it could go either way turns people off? Lol OK

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07-20-2013, 06:25 PM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmovies779 View Post
Posts like these are what turns people off from Zuc


Holy Overrating Batman
Really? You cant make your own judgement and get your opinion swayed negatively cause a poster likes a player?

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07-20-2013, 06:26 PM
  #320
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Here's what I don't get about the argument against Zucc...here's a kid that's been around the organization for a while now, knows the guys, and clearly loves being a Ranger. He plays his HEART out for this team. He did it in the regular season and playoffs after competing in the KHL, playing harder, showing more will, passion, and determination than players twice his size and three times his cap hit. He works his ass off and is not at all afraid to stand up for himself or get into the gritty areas, despite his obvious size disadvantage. More than that, he has the skill. Great, creative passer, sees all of the ice and knows how to set guys up, and this talent can only shine through more in the more offensively open system AV has promised to bring. I personally put more value in the aspect of how hard he worked last year, especially in comparison to a lot of the guys surrounding him, but that's neither here nor there.

The real problem I have with this whole discussion: if we can lock up a player like this, with the proven ability to hustle for this team and provide an apparently debatable amount of offensive skill, why wouldn't we? For that cap hit especially, which I can't imagine being more than 2 mil per. What's the alternative? Where's the risk? Regardless of what points he might or might not put up, he can slot in and produce just fine on the 3rd, maybe making an occasional appearance in the top 6 if the opportunity arises. He's also a great benefit to the hopefully new, reworked PP.

So...again, I ask, what is the problem exactly? What are we even arguing about? Sign the kid. We have the room to do it, we have the dead weight to drop if not. I just don't understand what the point of all this is.

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07-20-2013, 06:32 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
He was in pace for over 40 as a rookie playing mostly 3rd line. He was on pace for over 40 last season as well. He has done that while averaging 3rd line minutes per game.
Projecting point totals outward, especially for a guy thats played 67 NHL games over the course of 3 years, is a fool's errand.

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07-20-2013, 06:35 PM
  #322
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is he a top 6 player on this team? does he fit on the 4th line as an energy guy? if hes not a top 6 guy, just not sure where he fits in the line combos AV wants to run

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07-20-2013, 06:37 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
So saying that he didnt get a chance to play 82 games, and that it could go either way turns people off? Lol OK
What turns me off is your idiotic commentary that "he showed up" justifies him making 1.75-2M per year.

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07-20-2013, 06:39 PM
  #324
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is he a top 6 player on this team? does he fit on the 4th line as an energy guy? if hes not a top 6 guy, just not sure where he fits in the line combos AV wants to run
People argue we have too many bottom six guys, but wanna sign guys extra guys all the time that can " fill the top 6 from time to time"

We need players that will play the role we need. Rangers always have this problem. They don't address the need they need.

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07-20-2013, 06:46 PM
  #325
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But where does not signing Zucc get us in relation to acquiring that top 6 mainstay goal scorer? If we're on the move to get one, so be it. But there isn't a better option out there in FA, especially not for the same price. It's a very low risk/medium-to-high reward signing.

The problem with our bottom 6 isn't that there's too many parts, it's that the parts are slow, bland, and totally interchangeable. MZA isn't just an extra guy. He's proven that he wants to be here through his play. Give him the shot at a full season.

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