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Should the NHL rethink the Norris trophy?

View Poll Results: Should there be 2 separate Norris trophies given out?
Yes 130 53.06%
No 103 42.04%
Undecided 12 4.90%
Voters: 245. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-10-2013, 10:10 PM
  #1
Paradise
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Should the NHL rethink the Norris trophy?

Is it time for the NHL to split the Norris trophy into 2 separate awards? One for the best all around d-man and one for the most points by a d-man (like the Art Ross).

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07-10-2013, 10:13 PM
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canuck4life16
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how about a defense trophy of the selke trophy who demonstrate best defensive in the game?

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07-10-2013, 10:14 PM
  #3
Do Make Say Think
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The "problem" with the Norris is that it's voted on by journalists

Make knowledgeable people vote on it and it won't be as skewed towards offense

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07-10-2013, 10:17 PM
  #4
Milan the God*
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I remember I read a story last year. Team 1200 had Bruce Garrioch on. They asked him who his ballot for the Norris would be (this was about 3/4 through the season). He said Niklas Lidstrom. The interviewer was almost laughing and asked him how often he said he'd seen Lidstrom play. Garrioch avoided the question. He asked him again, and Garrioch said twice. One against the Sens (opening game) and one other game throughout the season.

The scary part is, he has a ballot.

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07-10-2013, 10:18 PM
  #5
Paradise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck4life16 View Post
how about a defense trophy of the selke trophy who demonstrate best defensive in the game?
I guess there could be 3 difference variations...

1. All around (Norris)
2. Most points (Art Ross)
3. Best defensive (Selke) might be subjective

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07-10-2013, 10:20 PM
  #6
sharks9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
I remember I read a story last year. Team 1200 had Bruce Garrioch on. They asked him who his ballot for the Norris would be (this was about 3/4 through the season). He said Niklas Lidstrom. The interviewer was almost laughing and asked him how often he said he'd seen Lidstrom play. Garrioch avoided the question. He asked him again, and Garrioch said twice. One against the Sens (opening game) and one other game throughout the season.

The scary part is, he has a ballot.
That's the hard part, with all the awards they have to vote for there's no way they can watch all the candidates equally so they have to somewhat go off of stats like points and somewhat off of reputation. That's why once you win an award it makes it easier to win it again.

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07-10-2013, 10:23 PM
  #7
couture23
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Yes, I hate the Norris trophy now that's more about point totals.

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07-10-2013, 10:23 PM
  #8
Milan the God*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
That's the hard part, with all the awards they have to vote for there's no way they can watch all the candidates equally so they have to somewhat go off of stats like points and somewhat off of reputation. That's why once you win an award it makes it easier to win it again.
Yeah, exactly.

I know the writers are paid to watch and cover hockey professionally. But, take Garrioch for an example. He covers all 82 Sens games plus playoffs. On top of that, I'm sure he'd like to squeeze in time for family and personal time for himself like any human needs. It's hard to watch the other 29 teams in the league enough to get a great idea of who's the absolute best defenseman in the league, plus squeeze all that in.

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07-10-2013, 10:24 PM
  #9
Paradise
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Mods feel free to move this to the polls section. I really wanted to have it more as a discussion thread with a poll added for calculations.

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07-10-2013, 10:25 PM
  #10
BigT2002
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What do you expect from a bunch of Journalist that just voted Ovechkin to both the 1st team and 2nd team All Star teams even after they were sent memos of what his voted position should be.

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07-10-2013, 10:26 PM
  #11
Trance Kuja
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The NHL just needs more competent voters.

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07-10-2013, 10:26 PM
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cjm502
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I think it would be much better if the teams pro scouts and coaches got to vote for the players. They are clearly more qualified in judging players abilities than anybody else, it only makes sense.

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07-10-2013, 10:27 PM
  #13
Paradise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
Yeah, exactly.

I know the writers are paid to watch and cover hockey professionally. But, take Garrioch for an example. He covers all 82 Sens games plus playoffs. On top of that, I'm sure he'd like to squeeze in time for family and personal time for himself like any human needs. It's hard to watch the other 29 teams in the league enough to get a great idea of who's the absolute best defenseman in the league, plus squeeze all that in.
Maybe it should be voted on by the players, coaches and/or GM's instead of the writers? Similar to the Ted Lindsay award.

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07-10-2013, 10:28 PM
  #14
tucker3434
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Yes, the Norris should be more than just points. If forwards get a Selke, defensemen should definitely have one.

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07-10-2013, 10:32 PM
  #15
Rayzorexe
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If they plan to make a trophy for highest scoring defenseman in a season, they should name after Bobby Orr (for obvious reasons) or Ray Bourque (highest scoring defenseman in NHL history)

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07-10-2013, 10:35 PM
  #16
Nanabijou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm502 View Post
I think it would be much better if the teams pro scouts and coaches got to vote for the players. They are clearly more qualified in judging players abilities than anybody else, it only makes sense.
Pro scouts would be the best.

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07-10-2013, 10:37 PM
  #17
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Scouts probably have the best feel for the league, but even they can only watch so many games in a season.

Players generally see a lot more of teams in their division (both on the ice and in the video room), same with coaches, for obvious reasons too.

Journalists usually cover their hometown team and every team that plays against them, but little else.

Not sure about GMs, they're probably similar to the scouts.





Anyhow, I definitely do think that the Norris seems to be very offensively biased lately, although to be honest many norris winners have been gifted offensively in the past. Lidstrom put up 55-80 point seasons in his prime, Bourque was practically a PPG defenseman his entire career, Leetch and Macinnis were probably better known for their offense than defense (although their defense was also quite good), Coffey basically won the Norris multiple times on his offensive production alone.

It's probably just the what have you done for me lately nature of the internet being mad at the recent norris nominees/winners, namely Subban/Letang/Karlsson.

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07-10-2013, 10:38 PM
  #18
roflstomper
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Add the Robert G. Orr award for most offensively exceptional defensemen.


edit or just have hf vote on it.

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07-10-2013, 10:38 PM
  #19
iamjs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milan the Great View Post
I remember I read a story last year. Team 1200 had Bruce Garrioch on. They asked him who his ballot for the Norris would be (this was about 3/4 through the season). He said Niklas Lidstrom. The interviewer was almost laughing and asked him how often he said he'd seen Lidstrom play. Garrioch avoided the question. He asked him again, and Garrioch said twice. One against the Sens (opening game) and one other game throughout the season.

The scary part is, he has a ballot.
Could have been worse. He could have used his vote on Lidstrom this season.

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Old
07-10-2013, 10:41 PM
  #20
Paradise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayzorexe View Post
If they plan to make a trophy for highest scoring defenseman in a season, they should name after Bobby Orr (for obvious reasons) or Ray Bourque (highest scoring defenseman in NHL history)
I'd be for this. Even though Orr was more than a points machine. It's time he had an award named after him. Especially since Messier just got one named after him.

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07-10-2013, 10:45 PM
  #21
Paradise
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I see some no votes, but no comments as to why. Care to share your opinions?

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07-10-2013, 11:17 PM
  #22
I Hate Chris Butler
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I think they should dissolve the PWHA and get people who aren't idiots to vote for the trophy.

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07-10-2013, 11:32 PM
  #23
weaponomega
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No. It should be voted for as it was intended to be voted for.

Suter should have won this year.

Chara should have won last year.

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07-10-2013, 11:44 PM
  #24
Magnifique
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Damn, I'm the only undecided?

I feel like they should have two for obvious reasons. There is so much more to being a d-man than putting up points. However, the trophy is for the best defenseman in the league and we shouldn't have to restructure the awards due to the ignorance of the voters.

That's why I'm undecided. We could fix it by adding another award, but we shouldn't have to as knowledgeable hockey fans shouldn't be so enamored by points when deciding on the best defenseman in the NHL.

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07-10-2013, 11:57 PM
  #25
AvalancheFan19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
Yes, the Norris should be more than just points. If forwards get a Selke, defensemen should definitely have one.
You have it backwards I think then. Under those terms, the Norris should be for the best defensemen and then the defense should have one for highest points (acting like the Selke for forwards).

If that makes sense..

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