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Henrik Sedin vs. Jason Spezza

View Poll Results: Who's better?
Canucks fan saying Sedin 73 24.25%
Non-Canucks fan saying Sedin 88 29.24%
Sens fan saying Spezza 63 20.93%
Non-Sens fan saying Spezza 77 25.58%
Voters: 301. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-14-2013, 01:47 AM
  #126
Prairie Habs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraLupin View Post
Voted Spezza. What Spezza does with the linemates he had when Heatley and Alfie started slipping, compared to what Henrik did when Daniel was injured.

Give Spezza a twin, than you can account for all of Henrik's seasons.
Win the Hart?

I guess if Spezza did have a twin they could rehab injuries together.

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Old
07-14-2013, 02:06 AM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
Win the Hart?

I guess if Spezza did have a twin they could rehab injuries together.

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Old
07-14-2013, 02:34 AM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus Teemu View Post
Spezza in my mind is one of the most polished offensive players in the NHL. The amount of pure offensive talent he has is off the charts.
Whereas Henrik Sedin knows nothing about offensive play.


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Old
07-14-2013, 02:37 AM
  #129
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at present, spezza.

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Old
07-14-2013, 02:42 AM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SillyRabbit View Post
Whereas Henrik Sedin knows nothing about offensive play.

Where did I say that?

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Old
07-14-2013, 03:09 AM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus Teemu View Post
Where did I say that?
Well the thread is about them two being compared. So what you did leave out after giving Spezza all that offensive credit was that Henrik is even better, or what.

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Old
07-14-2013, 03:11 AM
  #132
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Defense Sedin>Spezza
Offense Sedin>>>Spezza

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Old
07-14-2013, 03:12 AM
  #133
Gibson Les Palms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveeviL View Post
Well the thread is about them two being compared. So what you did leave out after giving Spezza all that offensive credit was that Henrik is even better, or what.
I think Spezza is better, but in no way was I implying that Henrik doesn't have tons of skill. Obviously people disagree and that's completely fair. I actually wasn't even thinking about Sedin in that post, it was solely a comment about Spezza.

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Old
07-14-2013, 06:08 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Only Spezza would finish 4th in league scoring with teammates who recorded 97 points in total(only 13 more than him by himself) and yet still be called a top 15 CENTER.


Well here are my top 10 centers in no real order. The numbers are just to allow people to easily identify that there are 10.

1. Crosby
2. Malkin
3. Datsyuk
4. Zetterberg
5. Giroux
6. Toews
7. Thornton
8. Sedin
9. Getzlaf
10. Backstrom

I understand that you probably would disagree with my assessment.

I don't feel that I have insulted Spezza in any way by saying he is a top 15 center. That is still a first line center by pretty much any definition. I just feel that there are other centers that offer more value and assets to a team that place them above Spezza. This is all my opinion of course.

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Old
07-14-2013, 07:15 AM
  #135
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Spezza because he doesn't have a clone with mind melding powers to play with.

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07-14-2013, 03:48 PM
  #136
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About equal. Voted Sedin because of homerism (no equal option).

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Old
07-18-2013, 03:45 PM
  #137
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H Sedin playoff stats
99 22 52 74 56

Spezza playoff stats
56 17 35 52 26

Both are offensively gifted

The difference is that Sedin is a major chocker while Spezza isn't

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Old
07-18-2013, 03:54 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
H Sedin playoff stats
99 22 52 74 56

Spezza playoff stats
56 17 35 52 26

Both are offensively gifted

The difference is that Sedin is a major chocker while Spezza isn't
Time and time again it has to be mentioned Sedin is a later bloomer which makes stats pre lockout irrelevant. How about we do the past 5 playoffs.

54 points in 56 games .96 PPG (79 points in 82 games)
14 points in 20 games .7 PPG (57 points in 82 games)

Guess which ones the "major choker"

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Old
07-18-2013, 05:27 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesler2Burrows View Post
Time and time again it has to be mentioned Sedin is a later bloomer which makes stats pre lockout irrelevant. How about we do the past 5 playoffs.

54 points in 56 games .96 PPG (79 points in 82 games)
14 points in 20 games .7 PPG (57 points in 82 games)

Guess which ones the "major choker"
Context is important. But if you want to play the late bloomer card, you should probably start counting from when Sedin bloomed, in 05/06 (75 pts in 82 games, but missed the Playoffs) or at least 06/07 when he had 81 pts in 82 but put up a meagre 4 pts in 12 playof games. That drops him down to 58 in 68 for .85 pts per game post lockout.

As for Spezza, well for one, you used stats from the last 6 years for him and 5 for Sedin, or 4 playoff runs for the sens, so I'm not sure how thats the last 5 playoffs, but lets compare apples to apples instead of whatever you were trying to do.

If you go by last 5 years, Spezza has 13 in 16gp for .81 pts/g, or by his last 5 playoffs he has 36pts in 40 gp for .9pts/gp. Post lockout numbers adds one more season to Spezza, giving him 50 in 50, for 1.0pts/gp

Now the Sedin's have had a pretty strong supporting cast since the 05/06 lockout finishing 1st in their division and over 100 pts in 6 of 8 years , while the Sens have seen depth dwindle leading their division once early on in that period and a close 2nd with 105 pts in 06/07 but never getting over 94 pts since. That's another piece of context you omit.

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Old
07-18-2013, 05:36 PM
  #140
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Sedin's the best passer in the league.
You have to watch him play a lot to appreciate him. I can understand why people would pick Spezza given the fact that Henrik plays with another good player like Daniel and Spezza is also a very good player.
But Henrik is truly an elite player. A lot of the things he does are subtle and probably are not appreciated by a lot of fans, including Canuck fans. He's not physical but he takes a beating every night and has the second longest ironman streak going. I've been watching hockey for over 40 years and feel lucky to have been able to watch him almost every game.

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Old
07-18-2013, 05:37 PM
  #141
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Voted Sedin (as a Canucks/Sweden hater), because he is durable. Although, I must say I feel he is too dependent on his brother, same for his brother the other way around.

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07-18-2013, 05:43 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
Context is important. But if you want to play the late bloomer card, you should probably start counting from when Sedin bloomed, in 05/06 (75 pts in 82 games, but missed the Playoffs) or at least 06/07 when he had 81 pts in 82 but put up a meagre 4 pts in 12 playof games. That drops him down to 58 in 68 for .85 pts per game post lockout.

As for Spezza, well for one, you used stats from the last 6 years for him and 5 for Sedin, or 4 playoff runs for the sens, so I'm not sure how thats the last 5 playoffs, but lets compare apples to apples instead of whatever you were trying to do.

If you go by last 5 years, Spezza has 13 in 16gp for .81 pts/g, or by his last 5 playoffs he has 36pts in 40 gp for .9pts/gp. Post lockout numbers adds one more season to Spezza, giving him 50 in 50, for 1.0pts/gp

Now the Sedin's have had a pretty strong supporting cast since the 05/06 lockout finishing 1st in their division and over 100 pts in 6 of 8 years , while the Sens have seen depth dwindle leading their division once early on in that period and a close 2nd with 105 pts in 06/07 but never getting over 94 pts since. That's another piece of context you omit.
So you have to use 4 paragraphs of excuses to simply put Spezza on par with Sedin in the playoffs. Yet Sedin is dubbed as a "choker"

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07-18-2013, 05:48 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesler2Burrows View Post
So you have to use 4 paragraphs of excuses to simply put Spezza on par with Sedin in the playoffs. Yet Sedin is dubbed as a "choker"
Well actually it's three paragraphs showing how you had to cherry pick years to put Sedin ahead, and one to provide context, but take it for what you will.

I'm not the one calling either player a playoff chocker btw, I just was pointing out that the argument you put forth was intellectually dishonest.

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Old
07-18-2013, 05:58 PM
  #144
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This is a no brainer IMO. Both of these players are pretty close at most aspects of the game. I think Henrik gets a slight edge in most categories. Health is the biggest factor. Henrik can stay healthy whereas Spezza is always injured.

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07-18-2013, 06:04 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
Well actually it's three paragraphs showing how you had to cherry pick years to put Sedin ahead, and one to provide context, but take it for what you will.

I'm not the one calling either player a playoff chocker btw, I just was pointing out that the argument you put forth was intellectually dishonest.
I "cherry picked" Just like the poster above of me. My stats do actually have some relevance seeing as I'm using the last 5 year, which are more relevant to who the better player is right now.

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07-18-2013, 07:00 PM
  #146
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Hmmm. Made it through four pages. Lots of good points made for each. Also lots of terrible posts with misleading stats, as is tradition.

If we are going into next season, I'd probably take Spezza as he does seem like a much better two way player than in years past. Two way has definitely become a weakness in the Sedins' game the last several years. They took opposite career paths in that regard.

Canucks are my 2nd fav team but I went with Spezza. Henrik's obviously had the better last five years and the higher peak, but I think Spezza has the slightest edge here.

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Old
07-18-2013, 07:00 PM
  #147
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Henrik Sedin he has passed a franchise record and is a captain also he won Hart trophy Henrik is also great at faceoffs.
Art Ross Trophy.

Many All star appearances too.

EDIT: Also Spezza has won no NHL Awards. But did attend some allstar games.


Last edited by Virtanen2Horvat: 07-18-2013 at 07:20 PM.
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07-18-2013, 07:01 PM
  #148
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Page 6 is terrible too lol

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Old
07-18-2013, 08:53 PM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
He had a perfect partner in Healtley and still couldn't match Henriks best despite Henrik missing his perfect partner for significant time.
How much of Heatley's reputation is built off of playing with Spezza?

GP G(/gp) A(/gp) Pts(/gp)
Before Spezza 190 80(0.42) 101(0.53) 181(0.95)
Best season b/f Spezza 77 41(0.53) 48(0.62) 89(1.16)
After Spezza 280 100(0.36) 120(0.43) 220(0.79)
Best season after Spezza 82 39(0.48) 43(0.52) 82(1.00)
With Spezza 317 180(0.57) 182(0.57) 362(1.14)
Best season with Spezza 82 50(0.61) 55(0.67) 105(1.28)

Seems to me his best years were by far with Spezza.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesler2Burrows View Post
I "cherry picked" Just like the poster above of me. My stats do actually have some relevance seeing as I'm using the last 5 year, which are more relevant to who the better player is right now.
Well, if you used the last 5 years, you would have had the numbers I posted for Spezza, 16gp 13pts for 0.81pts/gp vice the 6 year span that included an additional poor year for Spezza. I'll accept that it was likely in error as oppose to intentional, and if you want to say those are their respective last 6 years as Sedin missed the playoffs 6 years ago so it wouldn't affect his numbers, sure, but I question why you chose 2 years after Sedin's breakout season when your logic was he was a late bloomer.

The poster above you hadn't really cherry picked stats, he used the entire playoff sample for each player. Now that lacked context, as you pointed out, but it seems now that when I added additional context you dismissed it as excuses.

Anyways, I don't think either is a playoff choker, but even then, playoff stats can be pretty misleading as you're restricting the sample substantially and the quality of competition is erratic, with weaker teams facing the toughest teams and vice versa for stronger teams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksrool View Post
Henrik Sedin he has passed a franchise record and is a captain also he won Hart trophy Henrik is also great at faceoffs.
Art Ross Trophy.

Many All star appearances too.

EDIT: Also Spezza has won no NHL Awards. But did attend some allstar games.
Since the previous lockout, H. Sedin has taken 10298 faceoffs and is 50.1% at the dot.
Since the previous lockout, J. Spezza has taken 9450 faceoffs and is 52.9% at the dot

During that 8 year period, Spezza has never been below 50% over a year, H. Sedin has been under 50% 4 out of 8 years.

This is one area where Spezza has a clear edge. Spezza also has a pretty clear edge in goal scoring (.398/gp for Spezza vs .221/gp for Sedin). Sedin enjoys an edge in assists per game (.896 for sedin vs .692 for Spezza), whether that means he's a better playmaker depends on how much of a factor line mates are, for the record, I think they are both fantastic playmakers, and would call it a wash, but have no issues with people claiming an edge to Sedin here.

Wrt Sedin being a captain, Spezza may end up one this coming year with Alfredsson's departure, he seems to be the top candidate at the moment.

Somebody already pointed it out, but Sedin's biggest advantage is health. Some may dismiss that, but I think given how close these guys are imo, it might be enough to lean towards Sedin.

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Old
07-18-2013, 09:00 PM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhay1987 View Post
Hmmm. Made it through four pages. Lots of good points made for each. Also lots of terrible posts with misleading stats, as is tradition.

If we are going into next season, I'd probably take Spezza as he does seem like a much better two way player than in years past. Two way has definitely become a weakness in the Sedins' game the last several years. They took opposite career paths in that regard.

Canucks are my 2nd fav team but I went with Spezza. Henrik's obviously had the better last five years and the higher peak, but I think Spezza has the slightest edge here.
Did you catch my post on page 4? It's #84.

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